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Experiments in Starting Pepper Seeds

 
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Background:

I have had a great deal of difficulty with starting pepper seeds, with many years of effort, and many dollars in wasted seed.  (see this  thread) But I remain determined!

I don’t have a great heat mat (just a very small mat intended for pets) and my house is cold.  I decided to formally test an interesting process that was recommended to me in that thread, and decided to record my results for anyone else who has to give up and buy greenhouse grown pepper seedlings every year.  

I welcome anyone who wants to join my experiment (using whatever method you choose) to post their results here too!

I'm about 20 weeks from last frost here, so will likely repeat the experiment with some changes based on my experiences in a month or two. There are several other methods I'd like to formally test too.



Experiment Start Date:
January 11, 2022

Methodology

Method A:

- Seeds were planted 1/4” deep in potting soil in 1/2 toilet paper tubes
-Tubes were watered, and then put in a clear, covered germination tray (AKA a semi sealed salad container from the recycling bin)
-Germination tray was placed on a heat mat

Method B:
- Corners of seeds were clipped (where the root should exit) with scissors
- A cotton makeup pad was split, seeds were placed inside the cotton, and then the pad was closed and rolled up , with an elastic band. A plastic label (recycled yoghurt container, cut into labels and labelled with a sharpie) was also slipped into the elastic band.
- Seed balls were dipped in hot water (boiled water allowed to sit for 5 min) for 5 seconds, then squeezed out and put into a bowl of ice water for 5 seconds, then squeezed out.
- The hot/cold soaking was repeated 5 times.
-Seed balls were unrolled, seeds were left in their cotton pads, and the cotton pads were and placed in a covered glass dish on a heating mat in a 17C room for 2.5 days.

Note 1: I had difficulty with the seed clipping – my hands hurt from doing it, and I found accuracy difficult. Many seeds weren’t a perfect shape where it was clear where to cut. Some seeds were likely insufficiently clipped, some were likely clipped too far back. I kept all seeds, not just "perfect" seeds, since I am trying to see what percentage *I* can get to germinate, not what percentage of "perfect seeds" I can get to germinate.

Note 2: The original method suggested leaving them in a 25C room, not putting them on a heat mat. I don't have anywhere in my house that I would expect to be 25C overnight, even on top of the fridge. I do have a (very tiny) heat mat.

Preparation Method B-1  (Control for Method B)
- Seeds were subjected to the process as in Method A, but the corners of the seeds were not clipped.

Test Varieties:
VarietySeed SourceYear Purchased For# Seeds -  Method A#Seeds - Method B
Purple StarVeseys202043
Hot Salsa BlendBurpee202166
Hot Mexican BlendOSC202266
Marconi RossoOSC202266
Gypsy HybridOSC202266


In addition, a control was made using Method B-1 . 4 seeds were prepared in this way (random extras I found on my counter after preparing the rest)

Initial Observations and Comments

I can potentially germinate many more seeds at a time on my tiny heat mat using Method B than with Method A. Seeds are also on the heat mat for less time, saving energy/space, or allowing me to germinate more seeds. Each tiny roll could easily have held 20+ seeds.

In the future, it would be good to test Method B using the warmest place in my house (top of fridge), to see if I can get them to propagate without the heat mat at all.

I should also test another control, but haven't - seeds just soaked in the cotton pads, no complicated hot/cold procedure.
Pepper-seeds-wrapped-up-in-cotton-pads.jpg
Pepper seeds wrapped up in cotton pads
Pepper seeds wrapped up in cotton pads
Soaking-in-hot-water.jpg
Soaking in hot water
Soaking in hot water
Method-A-and-Method-B-seeds-sitting-on-small-heat-mat.jpg
Method A and Method B seeds sitting on small heat mat
Method A and Method B seeds sitting on small heat mat
 
Catie George
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January 14 - Update 1

Method A
- No seeds prepared in Method A had visibly sprouted.
- Some mold had formed on Method A cardboard, so the lid was lifted on the tray to provide more ventilation.

Method B and Method B-1

The following seeds, prepared in Method B, and B-1, had germinated
Note that "Marconi Rosso"  and "Hot Mexican Blend" had the driest cotton pads -suggesting insufficient water may be related to poor sprouting
Germination, here, is counted as seeing the root begin to appear.

VarietySeed SourceYear Purchased For# Seeds - Method B#Seeds - Method B -germinated
Purple StarVeseys202031
Hot Salsa BlendBurpee202164
Hot Mexican BlendOSC202261
Marconi RossoOSC202261
Gypsy HybridOSC202265
Control (unclipped)??42


Initial Germination Rates

Method B (all seeds) had 44% germination
Method B (2022 OSC seeds) had 38% germination
Highest germination rate - Gypsy Hybrid - 83%
Control (Method B-1) had 50% germination.


Although results for control are strong, I'm unsure of seed type (could be Gypsy Hybrid) and sample size was very small. More work needed.

Additional work today

All seeds (Preparation Method B and B-1), including those not sprouted, were placed in 72 cell pots with the same potting mix used for Preparation Method A. These seeds were not placed on a heat mat, but in a warm(ish) bright window, with a ventilated clear plastic dome lid on the tray. Approximate daytime temperature 20C, nighttime temperature 17C.  

I want to see how many seeds now go on to form first leaves.


Suggestions for Further work

Future suggestion – increase number of “Control” type seeds, and use a listed variety for a better comparison. Current control is not large enough to be statistically significant, but suggests the seed clipping may not be necessary.
 
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I'll be watching your results with interest. However, I'll be very, very surprised if B doesn't beat A. Peppers love to be on a heat mat and if you did everything exactly the same (either protocol) but had one set on heat and one set off, the heated ones would win every time. So I worry that that differential will bury any useful test between the clipping/soaking method and not.
 
Catie George
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Christopher Weeks wrote:I'll be watching your results with interest. However, I'll be very, very surprised if B doesn't beat A. Peppers love to be on a heat mat and if you did everything exactly the same (either protocol) but had one set on heat and one set off, the heated ones would win every time. So I worry that that differential will bury any useful test between the clipping/soaking method and not.



Whoops! A is also on a heat mat, the same mat the other seeds are on.  They are in half toilet paper rolls to be closer to the heat source while they germinate.  The idea is to test my 'normal' method against this other method, so yes, agree with you about needing a mat. Based on previous experience, I'd expect close to zero percent germination without a heat mat.

Not sure how I missed that in my description, thank you for your comment! I'll go back and edit.
 
Christopher Weeks
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Oh, excellent! Carry on... :)
 
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What is the purpose of clipping the seed?
 
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I will watch this thread to see what success you have.  I just began trying seed starts indoors myself two seasons ago.  Not real good results.  The second year I invested in some heat matts  and inexpensive lights.  Sprouting was better.  Had some mold problems, and some damping off.  Still not super results.

This is where it got interesting for me.  

I overplanted (2-3 seeds per pot).  When I thinned the pots by pulling young seedlings, I planted a couple of the young tomatoes seedlings because I hate throwing plants away.  I can’t remember if they were first leaf or first true leaf - probably true leaf or there-about. They all survived and waaay out performed tomatoes that remained indoors from the same seed that I transplanted much later.  

Anyhow, I continued reading about starting seeds indoors and was considering upping my game by purchasing a dedicated shelving unit, betters light and supplies etc.  Then I stumbled across a site somewhere that recommended direct seeding and saving all of the time, hassle, and expense of indoor starts (of course this can all be a lot of fun too). The author indicated his direct sown seeds always caught up to nursery Bought transplants or indoor starts.

I’m in!  So I did not invest in new [anything] for indoor seeding and am going to try all direct seeding for 2022 just to see how it goes.  I’m a fairly new suburban permie.  One of the things I find attractive about permaculture is that the systems promise require less work over time.  Perhaps this will be a whole set of planning and chores I won’t need to worry about - we shall see.  Compost tea is another thing I was getting excited about trying, but hit the pause button on this as well.

Good luck.  Hope to see you have great success.
 
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Mark Sanford wrote:I will watch this thread to see what success you have.  I just began trying seed starts indoors myself two seasons ago.  Not real good results.  The second year I invested in some heat matts  and inexpensive lights.  Sprouting was better.  Had some mold problems, and some damping off.  Still not super results.

This is where it got interesting for me.  

I overplanted (2-3 seeds per pot).  When I thinned the pots by pulling young seedlings, I planted a couple of the young tomatoes seedlings because I hate throwing plants away.  I can’t remember if they were first leaf or first true leaf - probably true leaf or there-about. They all survived and waaay out performed tomatoes that remained indoors from the same seed that I transplanted much later.  

Anyhow, I continued reading about starting seeds indoors and was considering upping my game by purchasing a dedicated shelving unit, betters light and supplies etc.  Then I stumbled across a site somewhere that recommended direct seeding and saving all of the time, hassle, and expense of indoor starts (of course this can all be a lot of fun too). The author indicated his direct sown seeds always caught up to nursery Bought transplants or indoor starts.

I’m in!  So I did not invest in new [anything] for indoor seeding and am going to try all direct seeding for 2022 just to see how it goes.  I’m a fairly new suburban permie.  One of the things I find attractive about permaculture is that the systems promise require less work over time.  Perhaps this will be a whole set of planning and chores I won’t need to worry about - we shall see.  Compost tea is another thing I was getting excited about trying, but hit the pause button on this as well.

Good luck.  Hope to see you have great success.



In years that it warms up predictably, I have had similar or better experiences with seeds direct sown around the same time as I'd start them indoors(mid march), however, planting a tomato seed in mid may (zone 6 here) as my last frost date has delayed initial harvest, although the plants do eventually catch up to started seeds.  However starting tomatoes around mid march outdoors on a year where you get reliably warm weather until a last frost pops up and kills them is a real bummer.

The only other wrinkle involved in this is the need the baby freshly planted seeds, and at least for me, out of sight is out of mind, and I'm far less likely to remember to check the status of and ensure that seedlings have water if they're out in the garden versus in my pantry.
 
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Interesting, Will be curious as to your results.
Several years ago my grandson helped me plant my pepper seeds.  He was small so they went everywhere.
After a couple of weeks I noticed average 50/50 germination but....
The seeds that landed in other planted seed trays all sprouted. ( on soil surface)
Now I just push the seeds of peppers down into the soil surface without covering and get really great germination rates.
Have also tried this with other nightshade seeds but had terrible results.
Good luck with your experiment.
 
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Shea Loner wrote:What is the purpose of clipping the seed?



That is a method of stratifying the seeds.

Stratification can be done in several ways to help the seeds germinate.

Some people use clipping, scaring, cold, etc.

It is a form of trying to do what mother nature does outside.


 
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Great experiment Catie!

FYI - As for the experiment of clipping the seed, I've never done that for peppers. However, there was a different tree seed I wanted to try germinating and it was recommended to cut the seed. My son does table top game miniatures and has a set of tiny files - skinnier by far than a fingernail file, and much finer - one of those worked like a charm. It was very easy to control how much of the seed coat I removed. I don't know if that would work better for your hands than what you were doing, but it might.

So many things are site-specific. If I waited until the soil temp went up and the overnight lows went up far enough to germinate pepper seeds, I'd not eat any peppers!

I too have a cool house. When Hubby used to have a fish tank in the basement, I germinated pepper seeds on top of the light, but no more fish. When I used to have some 48" fluorescent fixtures to light seedlings, I used to put the pepper seeds in soil in paper pots in a tray on *top* of the ballast. I think it worked even better, so it must have been closer to the temperature the seeds wanted. Now I've got LED's and that's not going to work. Last year we had a week of sunshine so I put them on the window ledge and despite the cooler night temps, they worked.

Every time I try to follow the advice of direct seeding pretty much anything, some slug comes along and eats 3/4 of them. I have limited areas to grow annuals, and if the slug ate every 3rd plant, that would work for me, but when it eats 3/4 all in one spot and the other 1/4 is over-crowded, it doesn't work. Yes, I have ducks, but it only takes one banana slug or land snail and the seedlings are gone.

It would also be different if I was trying to grow a lot of something, but I really only need 2 pepper plants if they produce well. I ended up with 3 Thai Dragon plants last year that were super happy and I've got plenty of dry peppers in a jar to keep me happy for some time.

 
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Shea Loner wrote:What is the purpose of clipping the seed?



Theoretically, it breaks dormancy and allows the root to exit more easily.

Mark Sanford wrote:
Anyhow, I continued reading about starting seeds indoors and was considering upping my game by purchasing a dedicated shelving unit, betters light and supplies etc.  Then I stumbled across a site somewhere that recommended direct seeding and saving all of the time, hassle, and expense of indoor starts (of course this can all be a lot of fun too). The author indicated his direct sown seeds always caught up to nursery Bought transplants or indoor starts.

I’m in!  So I did not invest in new [anything] for indoor seeding and am going to try all direct seeding for 2022 just to see how it goes.  I’m a fairly new suburban permie.  One of the things I find attractive about permaculture is that the systems promise require less work over time.  Perhaps this will be a whole set of planning and chores I won’t need to worry about - we shall see.  Compost tea is another thing I was getting excited about trying, but hit the pause button on this as well.



I'm a fair bit colder and shorter seasoned than you, I think. Last frost isn't reliably until June 1, and I don't expect warm soil temperatures until July ish, and then first frost is mid-September. I have some self-seeded tomatos every year but usually they don't get past the green stage, except for a few cherries. My whole garden just starts really producing in late august... and then it's frost. My peppers just start producing at a week or two before frost. I'd likely do better with short season determinate tomatos only but I gamble with the indeterminates every year.

If I were in a warmer climate, I definitely would do more experiments with in-ground seeding. Squash is one where I find that my seedlings started in the field do about as well as the ones i start in the house, so long as I can protect them from the voles. Last year I did well starting my squash outdoors in pots at the same time as I planted out my tomatos and peppers. Squash planted earlier for me just seems to get eaten, and I seem to get the best of both worlds.

If i were to make more garden investments, it would probably be in a grow tunnel of some sort to extend my season just a little bit longer. I've had really good results with just starting tomatos and other things in a bright room, without grow lights, in trays with domes. If you buy a new dome, i suggest you look for the kind that have a moveable vent at the top. The darn peppers are the only things that don't want to cooperate!

Ralph Sluder wrote:
Several years ago my grandson helped me plant my pepper seeds.  He was small so they went everywhere.
After a couple of weeks I noticed average 50/50 germination but....
The seeds that landed in other planted seed trays all sprouted. ( on soil surface)
Now I just push the seeds of peppers down into the soil surface without covering and get really great germination rates.


I will have to try this!

Jay Angler wrote:Great experiment Catie!

FYI - As for the experiment of clipping the seed, I've never done that for peppers. However, there was a different tree seed I wanted to try germinating and it was recommended to cut the seed. My son does table top game miniatures and has a set of tiny files - skinnier by far than a fingernail file, and much finer - one of those worked like a charm. It was very easy to control how much of the seed coat I removed. I don't know if that would work better for your hands than what you were doing, but it might.

....

It would also be different if I was trying to grow a lot of something, but I really only need 2 pepper plants if they produce well. I ended up with 3 Thai Dragon plants last year that were super happy and I've got plenty of dry peppers in a jar to keep me happy for some time.



Thats a good idea to try something smaller - I wonder if a finger nail file might work, or even a nail clipper...  

Two pepper plants! I can't imagine! My default cuisine has tomatos and peppers in everything, and i figure a yield of about 1-2 peppers per plant, I had one green pepper that produced 4 whole peppers last year and was ecstatic.

 
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Catie, have you looked into or tried growing pepper plants indoors? I know they can be grown indoors, and you can even get a great number of peppers off a plant that is pruned to a very small size, as the concept of Bonchi trees demonstrates.

I am still trying to figure out how to grow plants indoors organically, but I have friends who have grown large pepper plants with nothing more than a sunny window, a large pot, and some toxic ick.
 
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Logan Byrd wrote:Catie, have you looked into or tried growing pepper plants indoors? I know they can be grown indoors, and you can even get a great number of peppers off a plant that is pruned to a very small size, as the concept of Bonchi trees demonstrates.

I am still trying to figure out how to grow plants indoors organically, but I have friends who have grown large pepper plants with nothing more than a sunny window, a large pot, and some toxic ick.



Those look awesome!  I had no idea pepper plants could get that tall, I have never even seen one reach knee high.

I have never managed to grow Chili's indoors. The house I grew up in is a bit north of me and has a greenhouse attached to it.
We tried growing tomatoes indoors and they produced nothing. I know my father brought his peppers in one year and they didn't produce anything after the initial flush from the summer. Maybe a pollination issue?  

I suspect how cold my family tends to keep our houses is a major factor, peppers seem to want a ton of heat. My house is usually 15-21C, and my father's greenhouse is usually 5C to 25C depending on which stoves are running.
 
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I've read it's a bit complicated - they like it hot during the day, but about 21C at night to set fruit. Where I live, we're lucky to get 21C air temp during the day, but in the sunny protected spot I put them in this year, plus the heat wave in June, seemed to make them happy. They were in very large black pots with wood, duck-shit, and good compost so that may have helped to keep their feet warm also - nothing like a bit of compost bottom heat!
 
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Laurel Jones wrote:

Mark Sanford wrote:Then I stumbled across a site somewhere that recommended direct seeding and saving all of the time, hassle, and expense of indoor starts (of course this can all be a lot of fun too). The author indicated his direct sown seeds always caught up to nursery Bought transplants or indoor starts.



In years that it warms up predictably, I have had similar or better experiences with seeds direct sown around the same time as I'd start them indoors(mid march), however, planting a tomato seed in mid may (zone 6 here) as my last frost date has delayed initial harvest, although the plants do eventually catch up to started seeds.  However starting tomatoes around mid march outdoors on a year where you get reliably warm weather until a last frost pops up and kills them is a real bummer.

The only other wrinkle involved in this is the need the baby freshly planted seeds, and at least for me, out of sight is out of mind, and I'm far less likely to remember to check the status of and ensure that seedlings have water if they're out in the garden versus in my pantry.



Good Points.  Thank you for the feedback.  I have not put any thought into exactly when to plant.  Perhaps I will try putting seeds in every week or two just before and after my last frost date and think out if needed.  This is easy for me to do because I have a small garden.  I will probably put in 8 - 12 tomato plants this season.  

Another thing that just occurred to me.  My father in law recently shared with me that for years he has planted peas earlier than recommended but he plants them deep - say 4-6 inches instead of one Inch. He tells me that this protects them from a late/surpise frost and gives the plant deeper roots.  I wonder if a vacation of this might work with tomato and pepper seeds?
 
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Mark Sanford wrote:

My father in law recently shared with me that for years he has planted peas earlier than recommended but he plants them deep - say 4-6 inches instead of one Inch. He tells me that this protects them from a late/surprise frost and gives the plant deeper roots.  I wonder if a variation of this might work with tomato and pepper seeds?

I suspect there are a bunch of issues that might affect this - first, some seeds need light to germinate (like Lettuce), second how dense the soil is (lighter soil would work better than my heavy clay version), third the size of the seed - peas of a decent size have more embodied energy to put into growing their way out of the soil than something like the tatsoi seeds I've grown that aren't much bigger than dust. There's more we could add to this list - if the soil's really wet, more seeds may rot before germinating, if you got certain "garden helpers" they may eat the seeds or shoots before they turn into plants etc, etc.

However, since you mentioned peas, I'd already known they were groupies, but I read last year that they really like to be planted in small groups, so now I put 3 seeds in each paper pot and they have been doing great with that treatment. It's always great to read what others are doing, and then try and observe some of those techniques. Ecosystem and scale are two obvious factors that can affect how I do things, but sometimes I also want to try something different just for fun.
 
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I realized I never updated this experiment.

Unfortunately, like many great scientific experiments before this, the results of this experiment were made significantly less meaningful by a factor I did not control for.

The Cat.

The cat knocked over a bunch of things as they were sprouting.

I can, however report that sprouting of the clipped seeds was significantly less than the heat mat seeds. And took longer.

Most interesting, and the reason I didn't repeat the experiment with clipped seeds when I planted more peppers, is that the leaves on the plants are about half the size as the leaves on the plants started on heat mats.

The seed stores food for the growing plant, and I removed some of that food. It's been over a month, and the clipped seed plants have not caught up to the size and vigour of the heat mat started plants.

Also, starting seeds 20 weeks before last frost  so far seems pretty successful! I have the plants in Solo cups, and I anticipate they will be pretty much ready to set fruit when I put them in the garden.

Attached are pictures of Marconi Rosso and Gypsy Hybrid starts with a clipped seed (small) plant compared to a heat-mat started plant (big). Notice the difference in leaf size, which seems to be persisting.


Top-view-of-pepper-seedlings.jpg
Top view of pepper seedlings
Top view of pepper seedlings
Front-view-of-pepper-seedlings.jpg
Front view of pepper seedlings
Front view of pepper seedlings
 
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Thanks for sharing your update, Katie.

It is really evident that the heat mat gave the seedlings a head start on life.

Maybe next time you can do an experiment with the clipped seeds on a heat mat to see how those seeds would do compared to the unclipped ones on a heat mat.  I feel the heat mat is they key to giving seeds a head start.
 
Jay Angler
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I've started web-searching for the recommended soil temperature for germinating seeds. I've been really surprised that most of them recommend higher than the typical temperature my house sits at during the day, let alone at night. (the exception being if the sun is shining in the living room windows which heats that room for about 4 hours)

Since I've got the heat mat on for things that *really* need it, I've been using it for almost everything except a few lettuce seeds. Overall it's done well, but I've got 3 different collections of Marigold seeds, and they've done nothing either on or off the heat mat, so I guess I'd better look up what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks for the update, Katie - it's always good to add to the collection of "real world with all its warts" information pool!  Cats are an issue with seed starting - my friend complains she simply can't do it due to that interference factor - you are *not* alone...
 
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My peppers.

So here's what I do/did.  Good results, although I did have an issue with yellowing leaves that stunted growth a bit.  It might have been over fertilizing? or hard water (I bottom water and the minerals maybe build up in the potting mix since nothing gets washed out), or feel free to tell me?  I used fish fertilizer every other watering, so I don't think it was a lack of N, but it sure looks that way.  The yellowing went away after a few weeks after I stopped adding fertilizer so I don't think it was N related.  ???  

They were under the cheap led lights for about 8 weeks, then they sat in a lean to greenhouse for a month or so, then I planted them in raised beds a few weeks ago.  Most of them look well, a few are scraggly.  

Here's the post I made about seed starting them. https://permies.com/t/174883/Seed-starting-plant-propagating-setup#1373121 I grew over a hundred pepper seedlings.  Yes, no human should grow 100 peppers for single use.  What can I say, I like peppers, and they grow well here.

I just found out about fermenting veggies, so I plan on trying to ferment a ton of them this year.

Almost all of the plants are sweet/mild.



IMG_20220214_160759165.jpg
Starting from seed. Many more sprouted after this picture was taken.
Starting from seed. Many more sprouted after this picture was taken.
IMG_20220417_154756598.jpg
Peppers. I like peppers.
Peppers. I like peppers.
IMG_20220417_154743550_HDR.jpg
More peppers.
More peppers.
IMG_20220417_154723537_HDR.jpg
More.
More.
 
Joshua Bertram
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one more.
IMG_20220417_154654771-(1).jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20220417_154654771-(1).jpg]
 
Catie George
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They look awesome!  100 peppers seems thoroughly reasonable to me.

I get very few peppers per plant, and absolutely love fermented hot pepper sauce and paprika. If I had more space, I'd probably grow a similar number.

June 1st for last frost here... Very impatiently waiting.
 
Jay Angler
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Related - important help required!
My friend bought Capsicum Flexuosum seeds. Apparently they can take a month to germinate. They're a perennial, deciduous, pepper. You *need* two to get fruit. "Can get 10' tall and live 30 years" according to the package.

First she planted 4, 2 germinated, only 1 survived.
Then she planted 3 more seeds and so far, no sign, but she doesn't think it's been a whole month. She's using some top heat (halogen bulb).

So, I now have the rest of the pkg. I'm thinking of putting them on my heat mat in the hopes that bottom heat will help. There are only 4 seeds left. The instructions actually said to start them in January, but I suspect that was to get fruit. If they're truly perennial, I don't mind if the plant just gets strong this year.

I will do some more research myself - but I thought I'd start by posting here and see what people know or think about this plant. I recall reading somewhere that pepper seeds in the wild tended to go through a bird's gut before germinating. That makes me think that filing with my really fine file a bit of the seed might help. The seeds are black and I would say a little thicker, tougher looking, that sweet pepper annuals that I've planted before.
 
Joshua Bertram
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Jay Angler wrote:Related - important help required!
My friend bought Capsicum Flexuosum seeds. Apparently they can take a month to germinate. They're a perennial, deciduous, pepper. You *need* two to get fruit. "Can get 10' tall and live 30 years" according to the package.

First she planted 4, 2 germinated, only 1 survived.
Then she planted 3 more seeds and so far, no sign, but she doesn't think it's been a whole month. She's using some top heat (halogen bulb).

So, I now have the rest of the pkg. I'm thinking of putting them on my heat mat in the hopes that bottom heat will help. There are only 4 seeds left. The instructions actually said to start them in January, but I suspect that was to get fruit. If they're truly perennial, I don't mind if the plant just gets strong this year.

I will do some more research myself - but I thought I'd start by posting here and see what people know or think about this plant. I recall reading somewhere that pepper seeds in the wild tended to go through a bird's gut before germinating. That makes me think that filing with my really fine file a bit of the seed might help. The seeds are black and I would say a little thicker, tougher looking, that sweet pepper annuals that I've planted before.



Hi Jay,

I remember getting excited when I heard about these pepper plants, but when I saw the fruit, I lost interest.  Here's a decent video that goes through the steps, and she seemed to have good results.

Good luck!  (Maybe I'll buy some seeds off you if you're successful and want to sell some in the future.).  

 
Jay Angler
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Thanks for the video link, Joshua.

I think it's convincing me further that my heat mat doesn't do a high enough temperature, coupled with at this point starting too late in the spring. I'm going to figure out a system to get more warmth concentrated - like my friend's spare incubator! It's maybe a little too hot, but is adjustable, so I'll have to set it up 4-7 days before starting the seeds to make sure it's at a temperature the seeds will like.

A number of websites suggested soaking the seeds for 24 to 48 hours before trying, and with wild desert-area plants, that makes sense evolutionarily.

It's interesting that the video didn't recommend the paper towel method, but several sites I read, used versions of it with success.  Personally, I'm not keen on sterilized soil systems - we've got so much mold in my native environment, no soil's going to stay sterile, so I figure that if I use my healthy soil/compost mix, there should be good guys in it that will help control any bad guys. That's got me leaning towards a system this site described:
https://growhotpeppers.com/germinating-pepper-seeds/
One of their methods was to put the seed on damp paper towel inside one of those tiny lidded plastic cups you get with sauce in it from some take-out places. I just happen to have a few of those, so if I put damp paper towel/seed in the cup, put the lid on it, lower the temp in my friend's incubator and keep an eye on things, maybe I'll do OK.

I'm not bothered by the small size. Hubby's not very tolerant of spicy food these days, but there are recipes where I want to add a small amount. If I've got to have 2 plants, and they're as prolific as shown in the photos, I suspect there will be more than enough for me. I'm more concerned as to whether they will truly like our weather. The fact that the video implies it's in Seattle and one of the commenters claims they're being grown in Wales, gives me hope that they will handle our wet winter weather.

I'm working on setting up a bit of a heat trap for several plants that can grow here, but won't like the extremes we got this winter. I think part of the plan will need to be the ability to add layers to it if the weather keeps going that direction. I'm still waiting to see if three tiny potted trees that I'd been limping along in the hopes I could find a place to plant them that would work, made it through, but many trees that would normally have leafed out by now, are barely getting started, so I'm not giving up hope just yet.

However, I will point out, the lady in the video was all keen on her plastic 3-seater pot, and I've never personally liked them particularly for experiments like this because you can't move individual plants/varieties to the light without taking the ungerminated ones along for the ride. Those multi-cell pots seem OK if you're germinating a bunch of more or less identical things, but for this experiment, with 4 precious remaining seeds, I'll start them all in individual little cups!
 
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Catie George wrote:They look awesome!  100 peppers seems thoroughly reasonable to me.

I get very few peppers per plant, and absolutely love fermented hot pepper sauce and paprika. If I had more space, I'd probably grow a similar number.

June 1st for last frost here... Very impatiently waiting.



I agree! 100 pepper plants sounds like an adequate amount. In my climate, I also only get a few peppers per plant towards the end of the season. This year I'm growing about 12 varieties and I have 6-12 plants of each variety. Unfortunately I have fungus gnats and my plants are a bit stunted. I transplanted them to new dirt so hopefully that helps them do better before it's time to plant them outside.
 
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My pepper starting life:

Phase 1:  Failure.  No heat mat, cool, poorly insulated California bungalow.  ZERO germination.

Phase 2: Better.  Heat mat in said cool poorly insulated house. Germination!  I consistently got sprouts in about a week, around 50% success rate.

Phase 3: Best (so far). A super warm room!  When I moved my business to where we are now, we built an insulated room to keep our slip-casting around 78 - 80 F year round.  (Clay behaves way better when warm).  I started experimenting with germinating peppers in the casting room, and WOW!  Germination in just a few days, with a much higher success rate.  We also get papalo (a Mexican herb that needs heat) to germinate in a couple days.  

I think the reason the warm room worked so much better than the heat mat is that it doesn't cool off at night.  Even with a heat mat, the temperature goes down overnight in my house.  But the warm room is consistent.

Before building our large casting room, I had some success building insulated boxes with mirrored styrofoam insulation to keep the clay warm.  (Nasty stuff, but effective).  A heat mat inside an insulated box might really bring the germination rates up, if you don't have access to a consistently really warm room.

And thank you Ralph for the tip to try starting them on the surface.  I'm going to try that next time!
 
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