Slugs & Snails

Morning all,

Any advice on dealing with slugs and snails? I would like to grow some annual veg this year but in the past my crop has always been decimated by slugs and snails.

Does copper tape really work? I'm thinking of making some raised planters with feet for the veg and putting copper tape around the feet. Any idea how much copper tape a slug/snail would need to cross for it to be a deterrent (10cm? More/less?).

Are there any genuinely eco-friendly slug pellets? I read that all pellets include substances that persist and kill other animals/organisms, but I can't remember where I read it

Thanks!


My main post is here:
https://permies.com/t/154597/Garden-Scratch-ADVICE

Given that this is a US forum, there tends to be a bit less discussion on slugs than you'd expect as a Brit here, or maybe it's taken as one of those problems no one likes to talk about.  Slugs are one of the reasons I moved away from growing annuals when I came here, but I'm trying again this year so if you find a magic solution let us know! I rarely see slugs in my field, yet as soon as I put 'food' down for them baby slugs appeared out of nowhere.

I prefer not to kill slugs. I'm still hoping that some way a magic balance between pests and predators will happen. Unfortunately no one gardens in a vacuum and you will still have neighbours doing their stuff and potentially disturbing the balance. My favoured method is growing stuff they don't like, or perennials that will grow robustly and survive the onslaught. Failing that ,then barrier methods have worked for me in the past. I used to have a bit of scaffolding in the garden which I used to keep my seedlings on and I'm sure that the galvanised legs kept the slugs at bay. In a damp climate I believe dry prickly things do not work as a barrier. I did an experiment with eggshells once and they were almost useless for me here (but may work for you or others!). Cut off plant pots without copper tape worked just as well as collars with tape. I gather you can make sort of an electric fence against slugs. The trouble is that given any bridge over it leaves etc. then this will not work either.  Ground beetles are your friend and I did wonder whether a sunken bed to collect beetles might help tip the balance.

I found a few threads that may be of use:
https://permies.com/t/28583/slug-Solutions
https://permies.com/t/167068/slugs
https://permies.com/t/159815
https://permies.com/t/17655
https://permies.com/t/139528
https://permies.com/t/161108
https://permies.com/t/154976

Good luck!

Nancy Reading wrote:Given that this is a US forum, there tends to be a bit less discussion on slugs than you'd expect as a Brit here, or maybe it's taken as one of those problems no one likes to talk about.  Slugs are one of the reasons I moved away from growing annuals when I came here, but I'm trying again this year so if you find a magic solution let us know! I rarely see slugs in my field, yet as soon as I put 'food' down for them baby slugs appeared out of nowhere.

I prefer not to kill slugs. I'm still hoping that some way a magic balance between pests and predators will happen. Unfortunately no one gardens in a vacuum and you will still have neighbours doing their stuff and potentially disturbing the balance. My favoured method is growing stuff they don't like, or perennials that will grow robustly and survive the onslaught. Failing that ,then barrier methods have worked for me in the past. I used to have a bit of scaffolding in the garden which I used to keep my seedlings on and I'm sure that the galvanised legs kept the slugs at bay. In a damp climate I believe dry prickly things do not work as a barrier. I did an experiment with eggshells once and they were almost useless for me here (but may work for you or others!). Cut off plant pots without copper tape worked just as well as collars with tape. I gather you can make sort of an electric fence against slugs. The trouble is that given any bridge over it leaves etc. then this will not work either.  Ground beetles are your friend and I did wonder whether a sunken bed to collect beetles might help tip the balance.

I found a few threads that may be of use:
https://permies.com/t/28583/slug-Solutions
https://permies.com/t/167068/slugs
https://permies.com/t/159815
https://permies.com/t/17655
https://permies.com/t/139528
https://permies.com/t/161108
https://permies.com/t/154976

Good luck!

Thanks - I'll check out the links for more tips!

I agree with Nancy on several points, namely eggshells being useless....
I have major slug problems (we're wet 9 months of the year, at varying temps). I also like to mulch, and I think the mulch gave the slugs/snails too many places to hide. Reading Charles Dowding's web page recently I came across something that made me think-- mulch needs to have anything "fresh" composted down, so my next batch of mulch (shredded garden waste) is currently cooking in a barrel in the sun along with urine soaked wood shavings and rabbit manure. We'll see if it helps.
What I usually do, when things are bad, is get a flashlight and go outside on a rainy night and hand pick as many of the little varmints as I can (into a jar with vodka, since I don't have animals that would appreciate them as snacks).

Tereza Okava wrote:I agree with Nancy on several points, namely eggshells being useless....
I have major slug problems (we're wet 9 months of the year, at varying temps). I also like to mulch, and I think the mulch gave the slugs/snails too many places to hide. Reading Charles Dowding's web page recently I came across something that made me think-- mulch needs to have anything "fresh" composted down, so my next batch of mulch (shredded garden waste) is currently cooking in a barrel in the sun along with urine soaked wood shavings and rabbit manure. We'll see if it helps.
What I usually do, when things are bad, is get a flashlight and go outside on a rainy night and hand pick as many of the little varmints as I can (into a jar with vodka, since I don't have animals that would appreciate them as snacks).

Thanks!

Does anyone know if frogs make a noticeable dent in slug/snail numbers? I've added quite a big pond and a few smaller ones to my garden in the hope that I might get some amphibians (and other wildlife benefits)...

Salt water is cheaper than vodka, though I suppose if you're putting them in your compost later it's not optimal.

I put in hip-high beds last year and it seemed to help (I also have rabbits and other rodents so keeping them out may be the difference).  I'm planning two things I hope will help this year:  A toad pond and nematodes.

I put in a tiny (1x2 meter) pond that I'm hoping will bring more toads to the garden in general.  I did see a couple in the pond last year.

I'm also buying https://www.re-natur.de/shop/nemaslug-mini-gegen-nacktschnecken-fuer-40-m.html for just the raised beds.  I know I bought from a UK site before Brexit so you should be able to get it locally.

Oh, and I'm hoping hedgehogs will show up this year.  I have a couple of places for them to nest - fingers crossed!

The only real slug "solution" that I've heard of is to let poultry pick over the growing area each day. A smallholding I know of down here - Gardd Darna - run their ducks across the veggies in the morning on the way to the pond. They lose a bit of veg due to leaves being pecked but they keep the slugs right down. If you don't have poultry, perhaps encouraging wild birds with feeders might help. As you say, frogs are supposed to be helpful too.

In my experience, copper tape does nothing. Egg shells don't seem to do much either. Beer traps do work but you need to be very consistent with them (and I usually end up drinking all the beer and not having any left to make traps with! it was easier when I had more parties...)

My last house was in a very damp climate and had a stone wall along the length of the garden. This was the ultimate slug hiding place and, every evening, they wrought havok on my vegetables. I found that growing seedlings in-situ (rather than in pots and then planting out) led to a better survival rate (but a shorter growing season). Any seedlings that made it past the first few weeks were largely ignored by the slugs and snails. Strange.

Thanks both.

So it looks like a battle to be fought on many fronts. Interesting that you haven't had much help from copper tape. I'll still give it a go as i'm not using it extensively. Eggs shells didn't work for me in the past. Will try beer traps again, and hopefully my ponds and amphibians will help.

A list of what doesn't work should start with frogs and toads, I'm sure they eat some slugs but in my last very damp house we had thousands upon thousands of frogs and toads and millions of slugs. Lawn mowing was mass murder of baby frogs and I had to improvise a system to let toads crawl back out of the septic tank covers, otherwise one had to rescue 3 or 4 every day just from there.  The problem with trying for "natural" control is that is cannot work to an acceptable standard, the predators will not eat all the prey if they did they would die. and at the other end of the system you are growing unlimited food for the prey.

In my new property we had almost no slugs the first year after converting the field from grass to vegetables, there were also very few toads, the next year there were thousands of slugs and a few hundred toads, last year we were up to buckets of slugs and swarms of toads, and even a few frogs. One cannot coexist with slugs, they don't leave you anything to eat at all.

Another major problem in most of Europe and in the UK is the slug that is causing the problem the so called "Spanish slug" isn't native and doesn't have predators, it (apparently) tastes really bitter so frogs, hedgehogs etc don't eat it, and it gets to big for our native ground beetles or lizards to kill.

My chickens wouldn't touch slugs or snails, but they did love frogs.. counter productive i suspect.


So what have I found does help?

No coarse mulch anywhere, slugs and snails love it.
No rubbish lying around the growing area, (sticks, stones, buckets etc)
Clear up all old plant debris and keep compost areas away from growing areas.
Ducks, they are of limited help, they love slugs yes, but they cannot be allowed in food production areas (illegal if you wish to sell and a health hazard even if you don't want to)
Keep a clear area, either closely mown or plastic mulch around the growing area, it's easy to spot slugs coming in this way
Hand picking, yes eww but an hour every couple of days will help, it won't exterminate them but it will bring the damage to manageable levels.
Avoid edges, so no stone edging, or plank edges for raised beds, these provide wonderful slug habitat.
Slug pellets (the iron phosphate ones) If you have spanish slugs then start using these NOW I did my first trip round today (26th Jan) we've had a mild winter and I can already see the baby slugs appearing. hitting them now and up until March will control them for the entire season. If you wait until you start to see full grown slugs they are to big to be killed by the pellets.

Skandi Rogers wrote:A list of what doesn't work should start with frogs and toads, I'm sure they eat some slugs but in my last very damp house we had thousands upon thousands of frogs and toads and millions of slugs. Lawn mowing was mass murder of baby frogs and I had to improvise a system to let toads crawl back out of the septic tank covers, otherwise one had to rescue 3 or 4 every day just from there.  The problem with trying for "natural" control is that is cannot work to an acceptable standard, the predators will not eat all the prey if they did they would die. and at the other end of the system you are growing unlimited food for the prey.

In my new property we had almost no slugs the first year after converting the field from grass to vegetables, there were also very few toads, the next year there were thousands of slugs and a few hundred toads, last year we were up to buckets of slugs and swarms of toads, and even a few frogs. One cannot coexist with slugs, they don't leave you anything to eat at all.

Another major problem in most of Europe and in the UK is the slug that is causing the problem the so called "Spanish slug" isn't native and doesn't have predators, it (apparently) tastes really bitter so frogs, hedgehogs etc don't eat it, and it gets to big for our native ground beetles or lizards to kill.

My chickens wouldn't touch slugs or snails, but they did love frogs.. counter productive i suspect.


So what have I found does help?

No coarse mulch anywhere, slugs and snails love it.
No rubbish lying around the growing area, (sticks, stones, buckets etc)
Clear up all old plant debris and keep compost areas away from growing areas.
Ducks, they are of limited help, they love slugs yes, but they cannot be allowed in food production areas (illegal if you wish to sell and a health hazard even if you don't want to)
Keep a clear area, either closely mown or plastic mulch around the growing area, it's easy to spot slugs coming in this way
Hand picking, yes eww but an hour every couple of days will help, it won't exterminate them but it will bring the damage to manageable levels.
Avoid edges, so no stone edging, or plank edges for raised beds, these provide wonderful slug habitat.
Slug pellets (the iron phosphate ones) If you have spanish slugs then start using these NOW I did my first trip round today (26th Jan) we've had a mild winter and I can already see the baby slugs appearing. hitting them now and up until March will control them for the entire season. If you wait until you start to see full grown slugs they are to big to be killed by the pellets.

Thanks - very useful! Have you ever tried nematodes? I was wondering if they are more eco-friendly than pellets, but I have never tried either.

+1 for the iron phosphate pellets. Last year I resorted to them as everything I put in the ground was being demolished and they did seem to work. A very clued-in (eats solely organic food) chemist friend of mine assures me that they are safe to use and are unlikely to be detrimental to wildlife (apart from slugs). I still used them very sparingly.

G Prentice wrote:

Thanks - very useful! Have you ever tried nematodes? I was wondering if they are more eco-friendly than pellets, but I have never tried either.

No but purely due to the cost, I need to keep an area of about an acre roughly clear.

Wet UK climate here. Perpetual battle, with no clear wins.

I have been investing in plants that the slugs don't bother. Fruit trees and bushes are a good starting point. Beans do well, once they grow past the slug range. Courgettes, again once they get through the small and vulnerable phase. Leeks and bunching welsh onions have done well. Potatoes were a disaster.

I think a combination of hand picking while plants are small and vulnerable, and picking plants that are not so prone to damage in the first place, is a recipe for success. At least in part.

I'm hoping that growing the annuals in fairly high planters will help. Perhaps I can put the feet of the planters in beer traps? Is it overkill? Excuse the pun haha

Isn't it incredible that creatures that don't even have legs can cause so much damage in a garden...

G Prentice wrote: Perhaps I can put the feet of the planters in beer traps? Is it overkill? .

If the liquid was deep/wide enough that might actually work! I think the slugs would drown. A side benefit would be protecting the plants from vine weevil, if they are likely to be a problem, since they can't swim either.

I was sent a nice link on slugs and permaculture that you may enjoy. It is a little long, but quite interesting:
earthways.co.uk

Oddly eggshells seemed to work for me last year.  My direct-seeded cucumbers were decimated by slugs so I grew some as transplants.  I surrounded each plant with a generous course ring of eggshells and they survived.  However I do agree about not using course mulch as it seems to provide the little buggers with habitat during the day.  Hand-picking is a bit gross but I find it the most successful.   Leaving pieces of boards in my paths (don't do this in beds as you don't want to invite any more in) Have been successful as you can simply lift the board every morning and pick them off.  I've never tried the beer traps yet.

I heard about something cool on the predator side of slug control (second-hand info, so can't cite a source unfortunately, but still): Supposedly, blackbirds somewhere in Europe (possibly Sweden?) have found a method for eating the invasive Spanish slugs. The reason nothing normally wants to eat them is the thick layer of nasty slime that they surround themselves with, so what the blackbirds have started doing is peck a hole in the slime layer, then wipe their beak to get rid of the slime, then eat through the de-slimed hole. Pretty cool, hope the knowledge spreads among them...