The great big thread of sunchoke info - growing, storing, eating/recipes, science facts

Thanks Cecile, that's a great tip about re-planting the damaged ones.  

As for "rotating" trees, I was thinking more if you have an area that you're going to plant trees in anyway you could grow sunchokes there first.  On the downside, you want the trees to self-select more than most things, they're candidates for "STUN" (sheer total utter neglect), so if you gave them an advantage at the start with "tilling" the soil then they wouldn't be prepared to face the real world in the second year.  

I love the idea of planting into mulch instead of into soil! that's more or less what I'm going to do as I'm accumulating fallen leaves like an American shopper at a Target on Black Friday.  USA! USA!  I do wonder if the squirrels will have the same idea vis-a-vis the sunchokes.  I had already planted mine back under the soil before, so I'll try adding a few up in the leaves too and see what happens, though it'll be hard to know cause and effect as I haven't marked anything.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:Thanks, that's kinda what I figured.  I'm not too worried about it, just aware that it's a major permaculture principle not to till, and this situation forces it.  
I don't have any hardpan currently (except maybe under the raised bed I made).  I built the bed mostly in case they escaped and tried to choke the neighbors.  But it's also worked well for being looser soil than the "yard" soil that was here before and has been weirdly dry after seeming absorbant in the spring.
I also think there's less disturbance than a plow if you harvest by hand, make a cut with a shovel and turn it a few degrees over and reach in to pull out what ever comes and leave the ones that don't come easily.  It's a fun, cool day activity to feel around for them in the dirt.
I also do think about rotating in a non-root-crop for that area next year, knowing that it will have some sunchoke companionship inevetably too.  I just don't know what to do about the fact that right after you harvest is the best moment to sow--except to wait for harvest until the spring or late winter and then do some winter sowing of the next rotation crop.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:


Darn! I messed up the formatting to make the message more concise. I hope it is still clear.
I was not sure if you had made a bed for them. Good for you! Being a bit higher than the surrounding soil will help: you won't have to did down to China if the plant is already a little higher than the surrounding soil. A good layer of mulch will keep the soil friable as well,  as you may have noticed. The no-till system is great but it is better if you add so much mulch that all you have to do is part the mulch to plant. [That may mean 10" or more of dead leaves: They mat with the snow on top but the root crops will break through without your help [especially sunchokes!] Dead leaves are not so good on strawberries for example because they mat so badly that they may choke the plants.
To damage less tubers [and be a lot kinder to your back], you might want to use a fork with skinny tines. Go all around about 2 ft. from the plant and then go once more around, trying to lift. they come out a lot easier if you first loosen the soil from a little farther.
As far as the best time to sow the tubers for next year, look at your harvest and sort out any that is damaged right away: Those will not keep as well out of the ground. In the ground, they will be real troopers and make you proud. Then, you can plant them anywhere in as long as the soil is not frozen. [It is a little different from garlic, which needs to develop some roots before the ground freezes]. Perhaps you will notice that the sunchokes are already developing hair roots.
You mentioned trees as a rotation crop. Trees are a long term project, not so much something you include in a *rotation*, but there are a lot of things you can plant near trees that will not interfere but *help*. Look up guilds for fruit trees.  
Good luck to you.

I've seen people here talking about the invasiveness, the growth conditions, the *ahem* wind generation...

But my problem is this: I've grown two varieties (red fuseau and hypernova) and they taste identical: RIDICULOUSLY nutty / earthy. To me, they taste nothing like artichoke. At all.

I tried frying. Nope - still nutty. The wife tried making sunchoke pancakes, potato-pancake style. Nope.
We've tried to "hide" the flavor with citrus acid, or ketchup, etc. Not happening.

Is there any way to reduce the overwhelming, all-consuming "nutty" flavor? Perhaps a variety bred to not taste as nutty, or a cooking technique that removes that element?

In my estimation, the longer sunroots are cooked, the more they taste like sunflower resin. Deep fried chips are the worst for me!

To minimize heating, I like to prepare them in ways that minimize cooking. Methods that work for me are adding raw into a salad, and as part of the starting ingredients for lacto-fermented vegetables or kimchi. Or munching on them as raw tubers.

Sometimes, I'll add them in small quantities to a soup, roast, or stew. Something to add a bit of interest, without being overwhelming. It is rare for me to make a dish where the primary ingredient is sunroots. Once in a while, I'll boil them in milk, and puree it into a soup, which has a strong sunflower resin taste about it.

Thanks! So it sounds like I can't get away from that flavor, huh? What about the kimchi - sunroots ferment with that same terrible nuttiness?

The resinous taste tends to be concentrated in the peel. You could peel them to lessen the concentration of the flavor. Also, the resinous taste tends to intensify if the tubers get dehydrated, so it can help to store them moist and cold.

Perhaps the easier path, would be to change your mind. Learn to adore the flavor exactly like it is, without trying to make sunroots into something that they are not.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:

Aaron Festa wrote:Anyone have a bad experience with mice/voles/moles eating their tubers?

Voles have been a problem for me.  You can put down Perma-til before you dig tubers and it works into the soil.  Sharp edges deter voles because those under soil dwelling critters have thin skin and if they get a cut, they are doomed as infection sets in quickly and they die.  You only have to put it out once.  I don’t usually use anything, I just try to dig them before they are all eaten.  Would love to leave in the soil over winter, but wouldn’t have much of anything left if I did.  However, they always miss enough that they come back up every spring in abundance.  In 20 years, I’ve never had to replant.  

Libbie Hawker wrote:When I was still living in Seattle, I went to a fancy new vegan restaurant and eagerly ate a dish featuring sunchokes. Delicious! So tasty! And the next day, I felt like Violet Beauregard from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, slowly inflating to perfect roundness. I've never been so horrendously bloated in my life. No more sunchokes for me! Darn.

With any food that produces flatulence, eat a little ginger with that meal.  It helps tremendously.

A thought... since sunroots are slightly alleopathic, I wonder if they'd keep the barbed wire fence line clear enough of weeds that the neighbor wouldn't feel the urge to spray it?
The deer would be thrilled, I'd have a hard time getting a stand going...
Just a thought.

did anyone try layering / mounding up their sunchokes? I think I may be about to do that, there's a sunchoke in my potato barrel for reasons science has yet to discover, and  potato is about big enouugh for mound up.  But William, you said that the potato tower doesn't actually work so well with potatoes??

Where do y'all find Sunchokes? I have trouble finding them, and the few places I find want way too much money for them. Been super interested in these for years.

Kevin Goheen wrote:Where do y'all find Sunchokes? I have trouble finding them, and the few places I find want way too much money for them. Been super interested in these for years.

Yeah, I've seen prices as high as $60/lb., beyond scamming! I'm lucky, I live near the heart of their traditional range and there are dozens of patches around, which doesn't help you. Keep tabs on Amazon and read the reviews on each seller. Some of them package tubers then sit back waiting for buyers who get moldy tubers. If I had the room, I'd grow and sell, but I live in-town on a 1 1/2 lot.
I've heard that https://oikostreecrops.com/products/perennial-vegetable-plants/sunchoke-Jerusalem-artichoke-tubers/?oc_page=2 is reputable and decent priced.

Kevin Goheen wrote:Where do y'all find Sunchokes? I have trouble finding them, and the few places I find want way too much money for them. Been super interested in these for years.

This is where I go:
https://oikostreecrops.com/products/?route=product/category&path=65_96
Not only do they have sunchokes, they have all varieties of sunchokes and can tell you about their taste, the shape of the tubers, if they upset your gut [some are real fart generators!] how far they are likely to meander: They keep making selections for shape, taste etc.
And they are not that expensive either. If they could be super selected for a better shape, potatoes would have real competition!
I hope you find your happiness. If you were in WI, I have a number of them I'm trying to give away: they are so incredibly prolific that after you grow them for one season, they will keep coming everywhere. the only thing that will kill them is deer: They eat the tip like we eat asparagus until the plant gives up.
To have full control, you should grow them in a barrel.

@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

It depends on the variety. I've collected my three varieties in the wild. The white/tan skinned smooth ones the size and shape of carrots are super easy to clean, are extremely productive as they spread 4', however, this smooth variety has an obnoxiously strong herbal-turnipy taste. Just a couple duced pieces are enough to flavor a whole pot of soup or stew. I have two others, one is a red skinned slightly knobby one and a white/tan skinned very knobby one and both have a really nice potatoey-Sunflower seed-nutty flavor.
It's estimated in various articles that there are between 200 and 400 varieties worldwide. There are ones that look like the first ones I described that have a very pleasant flavor rather than that almost nasty over powering flavor of the ones I have.
There have been breeding projects all over the world to produce 'better' 'chokes: bigger, smoother, more productive, good flavor, more cold hardy, etc. That's part of the reason that there is such a wide range in the estimates made of the number of varieties.
Best bet, find a supplier who is well established, has good customer references and isn't afraid to guarantee their product. I grow mine in town on a 1 1/2 lot. I don't have enough space to grow enough to sell.
There are also several subspecies: ones that do not produce seed and can only be propagated by tubers, those that produce seed under certain conditions and those that produce seed consistently.

I got some sunchokes at a plant exchange. I was warned "they will take over!" But between the deer and voles they have barely held on. I will look into the perma guard for the voles. We have soooo many here. And I am planning on fencing the area where I planted them as I planted 2 paw paw trees and have cane berries growing there too. We will see if my efforts result in more (or even an overwhelming amount of) chokes next year. I was so excited to get my hands and some, I love the mindset of abundance and the ability of others to share their surplus.
I'm glad to have found this thread with so many tips and ideas. I am especially interested in trying to pickle or make kimchi out of them
Yummmmmm!

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

joseph grows open-pollinated sun roots that he’s selected for the traits he wants, like less knobbliness.

Denise Cares wrote:@Joseph Lofthouse mentions he prefers the smooth sunchokes to the knobby ones.  So what variety are the smooth ones, or how do you grow them to reduce the knobs?

I selected White Star sunchoke from Oikos. It is good and smooth. I suspect you must remove *all* tubers from the ground at the end of the year. At that time, they seem to be roundish, with not protruding "eyes". I gave them a bed last year... and *thought* I had removed every one. Well, those 2 beds are now a green carpet of "survivors". From now on, I will be growing them in half barrels. They are so prolific that one or two tubers should give a person enough for a year. Also: Beware of the pink ones: raw or cooked, they are super "windy". The knobby ones are a pain to clean, and I suspect that is the main reason why they are not more popular. If they are knobby, I cut the starting stem, which is a bit tougher anyway, put them to boil a bit longer than tender, cut them lengthwise and squeeze the tender flesh out of them. With a little mayo, they are heavenly!

I tried twice to get sunchokes established along the edge of my yard, far from the garden.

Something, probably meadow voles, ate most of the bulbs. I actually found one plant with the stem and leaves intact, but no trace of root, just sitting in a hole left by the Eater of Sunchoke Bulbs.

I later found one bulb that was missed by the voles, so I transplanted it to the edge of the garden, just inside the fence. It is growing well there, but it's too soon to tell if it will become established and spread along the fence. (Mowing will keep it from spreading anywhere else.)

My best year was growing them in a tall [12" surround] raised bed. They [the sunchokes] *mostly* stayed in. Seems to me you need to change your question from "how can I grow sunchokes?" to "How can I protect my bulbs and rhizomes from rodents?": I suspect that if they eat your sunchokes, they may come after a lot of other crops, like potatoes, carrots parsnips etc. First, identify the rodent, then go on a "search and deter/ eradicate" mission. One thing I didn't know: Voles are not good climbers. This may explain why my lawn is full of voles but I have none in my raised beds.
Maybe your neighbors have already identified it, may have good suggestions? If not, I'm sure your permies will have good solutions.. If you are pretty sure it is voles, then this article may help:
https://www.almanac.com/pest/voles

I process the unopened flowers like artichoke hearts they make a great addition to salads and pastas.

"Seems to me you need to change your question from 'how can I grow sunchokes?' to 'How can I protect my bulbs and rhizomes from rodents?' Maybe your neighbors have already identified it, may have good suggestions?"

Fair point, but part of my reason for choosing sunchokes was that everything written about them says they are zero maintenance. I wanted to plant a line of tall, edible plants to serve as a screen between myself and the road. The "soil" there is truly awful, the sort of thing you get when you have gravelly soil at roadside.  So it has to be a plant that can handle that.

If I have to make raised beds, then that is more like serious gardening, not the zero-maintenance road-border crop I was looking for.  Raised beds are my norm in the garden, but not at roadside. Perhaps sunflowers will be a better choice out there.

As far as neighbors, I seem to be the most serious gardener in the immediate area. I find my neighbors look to me for gardening advice.

If your soil is truly awful, you may not have any more success with sunflowers than with sunchokes. If you want to have an "edible border", picking sunchokes may still be a good idea since they are/ can be invasive, which incidentally does not mean that they are zero maintenance: If you want to extract a good crop though, the soil has to be ok, the pests have to be kept away, so some work has to be put into it.
I grew my sunchokes in a raised bed the garden so deer would not eat them and so that I would have a better yield. I tried to grow sunchokes outside of the garden and the deer ate them like I eat asparagus in the spring: They never had a chance as deer were unrelenting. I did have voles or mice outside of the fenced area but not many. I did not have any in the garden. I suspect that because voles do not climb well and mice fear being exposed to predators, they don't get in my raised beds.
If, on the other hand, you don't care if you have an edible crop or not, then anything will do. Snow fence, buckthorn, black locust, you name it.
I do not know of any zero maintenance, edible crop. Mushroom foraging comes close though (;-)

One other problem with roadside planting is runoff from the road. That could be minimal if your area doesn't spread salt for snow removal. The only other real concern would be the fresh oils off of new asphalt or patching.
'Chokes will grow in most any soil as long as they aren't too wet for too long. They will get pethy like radishes when too wet or in extreme wet conditions they will rot like potatoes. Of course, the better the soil, the better the 'choke production, size and taste.
Pests include snails, slugs, voles and occasionally squirrels, rats and mice will eat or damage tubers. If a pig or three get loose and find a patch they'll tear! it! apart! Deer, cattle, horses, goats, sheep, rabbits, groundhogs and on occasion muskrats will eat the young tender plants and even some of the older leaves as the plants grow. The damage can be severe enough to kill the 'chokes. Aphids will hit them but cause minimal damage. Wasps, Ladybugs, Hover Fly larvae and Lacewings will work the aphids. Do all you can to invite those critters in. 'Choke plants can serve as an aphid distraction if you plant the 'chokes a decent distance away from your aphid sensitive plants. Cutworms will sometimes climb the stalks and trim the fresh tips flat off at night, but that's minimal damage too, the 'chokes recover very easily and quickly.
I've discovered that rabbits have a fondness for a variety I think is Fescue, a red skinned slightly knobby tuber over Stampede and Fuseau. Since the rabbits love them so much and the leaves are easily four times the size of the Stampede leaves, I picked some a week ago. I sliced them into 1 1/2" julienne pieces. I fried one handful in Olive oil. They came out so crisp they actually dissolved on my tongue. They tasted like Olive oil, so with some herbs like thyme they'd probably be pretty good. The rest I boiled for five minutes. The hairy texture was nearly gone, another five minutes would have done it, they were very tender. They had a very bland taste, again with some herbs I bet they'd be good or with a white sauce and bacon. The broth or tea off of them was different, it tasted like squash. I could easily get to like that tea.

It's a dirt road. No asphalt, no concrete, and I don't think it is salted in winter.

I would be happy with a near-zero-maintenance road screening crop even if it was not edible. But my gardening energy goes into my edible garden, and I don't have time or energy to spare on the road screening "crop".

The one sunchoke inside the garden fence is doing very well, despite heavy clay soil and no attention. So whatever was destroying the other sunchokes is not getting through the fence.

PS: I've found my wild apple trees to be an essentially zero-maintenance food crop. I haven't even pruned them, yet they crank out apples about every other year, and make great apple jelly, apple pie, or apple butter.

I realized something: The only plant in the garden that isn't being eaten to death by the grasshoppers is my sunroots. That is a fascinating data point. Wonder why?