Fermenting Refried Beans

Today is pinto beans in the crockpot day. I make up a big batch and freeze them for later use, but this time I'd like to ferment them and keep them in the frig. Is it possible? I saw a recipe for hummus, and refried beans are pretty much the same thing. Anyone ever do this?

Do you mean fermented hummus? Ordinary hummus doesn't keep well. But yes, if you have a recipe that ferments chickpeas, you can try that with other beans.

This sounds like everything I've ever wanted in food. I got so excited when I saw the title of this. If it works out, you have to write what you did!

The only lacto-fermentation recipes I have tried are from "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon. I've had good luck with the pickled cucumbers, pickled green tomatoes and the red tomato salsa. She has a fermented bean paste with onion, garlic, sea salt and whey that sounds delicious but I have not tried it. I have a good source for whey from friends who make goat cheese and like that better than using more salt. Her recipes cal for two tbs. salt per quart unless you use four tbs whey...then the salt can be one tbs. or less. If you want I could type in the recipe for the bean paste.

Thanks Judith. I just ordered Fallon's book this week. I just learned about fermenting in the past month, and I've found that I need a broader background on what I'm doing. That hasn't stopped me from filling my frig with various oddities and what not, but I'll definitely get her recipe, hopefully in the next day or two.

When I do beans I soak them in whey water for a few days, then I slow cook them for a couple more. Wonderful.

sheila reavill wrote:Thanks Judith. I just ordered Fallon's book this week. I just learned about fermenting in the past month, and I've found that I need a broader background on what I'm doing. That hasn't stopped me from filling my frig with various oddities and what not, but I'll definitely get her recipe, hopefully in the next day or two.

Hi, Sheila, I wondered if you tried fermenting beans yet? I'm kind of waiting on someone else to try it first!

Judith Browning wrote:

sheila reavill wrote:Thanks Judith. I just ordered Fallon's book this week. I just learned about fermenting in the past month, and I've found that I need a broader background on what I'm doing. That hasn't stopped me from filling my frig with various oddities and what not, but I'll definitely get her recipe, hopefully in the next day or two.

Hi, Sheila, I wondered if you tried fermenting beans yet? I'm kind of waiting on someone else to try it first!

I make a lacto-fermented Pinto Bean recipe, most every week. This is what I do...

First, I soak my Pinto Beans for about 15-18 hours, then I let them sprout, depending on the temp for about 2-3 days, rinsing frequently, or until the sprout root is 1/2" long or so. Then, I simmer for about 50 minutes, let cool and mash till smooth or at least a crushed texture. Next step, with 3 cups of the mashed Pinto Beans, I add from 1 tblsp. of minced Onion to 1/2 of a fresh, medium Onion, 2 tsp. of Cumin Powder, 1 Tblsp. of Chilli Powder, 1/2 tsp. Cayenne, 2 Cloves or 2 tsp. of Minced Garlic, 1 tsp. of good, Non-Iodized Salt, 1/4 cup of Whey or Kefir. (I oftentimes, substitute with some Zatarain's Creole Seasoning for for some of the Chilli & Cayenne, maybe something like 1tsp. Chilli Powder, 1 tsp. Zatarain's, reduce salt to 1/2 tsp., or just go by your taste, if you wish...)

Mix all this together, scrape down your sides and cover with some kind of lite covering that can still breathe and leave on your counter for 3 days, undisturbed. It won't be too long before you will notice some aroma coming from the fermentation, that's Ok, it shows it's working. If you've used Kefir, you will also notice the top surface developing a white film or layer, it's Ok, too. That is your lacto-fermentation and some of the milk protein. At the end of the 3 days, stir in together and use with crackers, chips, pita, or your choice. It will be a little salty, tangy & fizzy on your tongue from the fermentation and a little zip from the spices. Fine-tune to your liking and enjoy often.

Wahoo, thanks for such a detailed recipe! do you really mean that you ferment COOKED food?
I thought it was for preserving raw food!

I have 2 questions please:
- Can you start eating it before the 3 days?
(or will it disturb something)
- How long can you go on eating it?
(I would like to to it with no fridge)

Xisca - Yes, you can and you don't want to eat raw or sprouted uncooked beans because they can be toxic, beans are ALWAYS cooked.

You could, it wouldn't hurt you, but it wouldn't be as flavorful. Or, you could be more patient and stagger your batches so you always have fermented bean dip.

The refrigeration part only slows the fermentation process, you could eat it un-refrigerated, but it will continue to ferment and become more and more sour to the taste, you have to decide when too much is too much.

Thanks for your quick answer Ollie.

I did know about cooking beans, and I also sprout before cooking.
But I thought that tempeh was from raw soy, and so I was surely wrong!

Great to know that the non eating line is only up to taste!

Actually, I have problem with the tempeh I buy, because I never know how safe it is to eat it when it changes. I have even noticed some red spots that develop, and the smell was not so good.

Might be if I leave it in its plastic...
(I have noticed that plastic is not as good as glass or any material for keeping food.)

Ollie Puddlemaker wrote:
you don't want to eat raw or sprouted uncooked beans because they can be toxic, beans are ALWAYS cooked.

But I love eating bean sprouts, and always eat them raw. Is that toxic?!?!

I, too, have eaten mung bean sprouts raw and, of course, plenty of fresh, raw green beans, but maybe that wasn't such a good idea and one that I should continue with, until I can find more information. I'm thinking, that lentils, mung, chickpea and adzuki which, I think, are in a different legume catagory, might be Ok sprouted and eaten raw.

There are variations in toxicity between bean species and cultivars of same species. For instance, red limas have more toxins than white limas, kidney beans much more than cannellini or pintos. Beans create a lectin, an insecticide, to protect themselves, but which is neutralized and harmless by prolonged soaking and cooking.

Here's some links to look at and you decide what might be best for you...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Why-Raw-Undercooked-Beans-Are-Toxic-61708.shtml

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2385/

http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/read.php?4,24008

http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/read.php?4,24008

Bean sprouts are from mungo bean, and they are ok.
Those long sprouts are "greens", they are not like eating the grain.

Then, about eating the sprouted GRAIN:
More sprouted the better...

Then the variety:
- Lentils, yes for eating the raw brown lentil.
(the dehulled brown lentil is known as "red lentil", and they do not sprout anymore. They are the quickest to cook and easiest to digest)
- Mungo beans and adzuki might be ok for some people.
- Chick peas might be ok too, but in lesser quantities.

Xisca Nicolas wrote:Thanks for your quick answer Ollie.

I did know about cooking beans, and I also sprout before cooking.
But I thought that tempeh was from raw soy, and so I was surely wrong!

Great to know that the non eating line is only up to taste!

Actually, I have problem with the tempeh I buy, because I never know how safe it is to eat it when it changes. I have even noticed some red spots that develop, and the smell was not so good.

Xisca, The soybeans for tempeh are soaked overnight and then simmered for thirty to fortyfive minutes...then drained, cooled and mixed with the starter. No raw beans there. I would get the bought tempeh out of the plastic. I am sure it has been heated in some way to stop the ferment but will still go bad in a way that I would not eat.
One way to keep it longer if you don't have refrigeration is to slice thin and dry...we eat it dried or sometimes crumble into a soup but my favorite is a square of fresh homemade tempeh sauted till brown on both sides and eaten with lacto fermented cucumbers and fresh purple cherokee tomatoes.....

Thanks!
I will definitely make some one day!
And I want to try with any bean... I will buy soy, but I want to try with my local beans, unless I can also cultivate soy...
I have heard you can even use mesquite!

This time, I have taken it out of the plastic, and put it in a jar.
I also like to stir fry with veggies.
But I think we KILL the good things in it don't we???

My best (for taste) is to fry so slow that I dry it. In this case, I make thin slices.
And my very best is fresh as it is.

Yes, beans ferment. No, it is not lactobacillus fermentation. I don't mean to rain on your parade, you can still ferment all the brassicas, alfalfa, carrots, parsnips, salsify and lawn clippings you want, but if you are intending to ferment refried beans, you are going to have to learn about a new critter: Bacillus subtilis natto

This is not an acid fermentation, but a high temperature one, as Bacillus natto grows best around 110F. What I have done is to boil my beans until they are soft, drain them, inoculate them with the remnants of an old natto packet, and sit them covered in the food dehydrator for a day (...or two). I know the fermentation took, because the characteristic sticky thread of the natto were there when I stirred. However, unlike commercial natto from the (Japanese) grocery store, the threads weren't as abundant and mucilaginous. It's going to take me longer to perfect this process to be able to duplicate the consistency. Fortunately, on the taste side, my natto batch came out much tastier than store bought. It was lighter and didn't have as much of that gag-me-with-a-spoon ammonia component.

I'm not a real fan of Japanese food, it's one of my least favorite ethnic cuisines, and the only reason I've touched natto is for the purported health benefits. But if you are interested in fermented foods and their health benefits, maybe you want to do like I did and experiment with different types of beans and different times and fermentation temperatures. Oh, and yes, different recipes to handle that rather unique flavor that the beans end up with.

When I made and described the earlier post of my method of fermenting the pinto beans I did not use natto as a catalyst, I used salt & whey/kefir, it was subject to only room temperature conditions for the ferment of the cooked beans, It bubbled, formed a cover/bloom of kahm yeast that was whitish-grey, velvety and powdery from exposure to air. In tasting it it has a bite of saltiness & sourness. Perhaps, you are right and it didn't lacto-ferment, but what did cause it to ferment, if it wasn't the salt & kefir (lacto-bacillius)? It did not spoil or putrify...

Ollie, that sounds like a lactofermentation to me. Maybe I was a bit hasty if I implied that there was only one way to ferment a bean. My intent was to broaden the discussion. Instead of staying within the boundaries of lactofermentation, with all the positive benefits it has for digestion and the intestinal flora, I wanted to bring up natto-fermentation. It has a different set of benefits and health related conditions it can be recommended for.

My big problem with natto is that I don't like the taste of soy. Ranks right down there with black-eyed peas in the basement of the flavor pyramid. Now if I can get a nice natto fermentation going on in a pot of pintos or those black turtle beans or some anasazi beans, that might be pretty tasty.

John Elliott wrote: if I can get a nice natto fermentation going on in a pot of pintos or those black turtle beans or some anasazi beans, that might be pretty tasty.

Natto's the only food I've ever been unable to get down.
I find the stuff totally foul!

The recipe in Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon is similar to Ollie's except it is done in tightly sealed lidded jars...Sally Fallon says'Lacto-fermentation is an anaerobic process and the presense of oxygen will ruin the final product'. I can only take her word for it I don't have any understanding of what is actually going on in the process although I have had great results with some of her other lacto ferments...the tomato relish and cucumber slices.
John, is Natto more nutricious than miso? I tried making miso this past year but was unable to keep it at a warm enough temperature over the winter and it turned bad, very, very bad.
We buy organic soybeans from Lone Pine in Arkansas for tempeh and miso. I was buying the starter from GEM until recently (they have been out of Rhizopus oligosporus for a while now). Very tastey and if you don't like the flavor of soybeans, it can be made with any bean and also rice.
I have never tried Natto, but the description I have heard is much like Leila's:)...an acquired taste. Lone Pine grades a smaller bean for sales to Japan for Natto.

Leila Rich wrote:
Natto's the only food I've ever been unable to get down. I find the stuff totally foul!

Pickles and onions. The acid in the pickles kills a lot of the ammonia component to the natto and the onions cover the other flavors. If that's not enough, eat it with some blue cheese stuffed olives. You'll hardly notice the natto.

Judith Browning wrote:
John, is Natto more nutricious than miso? I tried making miso this past year but was unable to keep it at a warm enough temperature over the winter and it turned bad, very, very bad.
We buy organic soybeans from Lone Pine in Arkansas for tempeh and miso. I was buying the starter from GEM until recently (they have been out of Rhizopus oligosporus for a while now). Very tastey and if you don't like the flavor of soybeans, it can be made with any bean and also rice.
I have never tried Natto, but the description I have heard is much like Leila's:)...an acquired taste. Lone Pine grades a smaller bean for sales to Japan for Natto.

Natto is more broken down by bacteria, so the nutrition is similar, but not the same as miso. Miso is broken down by a a fungus and tempeh by a different fungus. I suppose if you left your soybeans in the ground to rot for a long time, they might get colonized by all three. Imagine how nice (NOT!) that would be. At some point, after enough fungi and bacteria have had their turn, it's probably only fit for earthworms to recycle.

The big benefit of natto is supposed to be the nattokinase enzyme, which dissolves arterial plaques and blood clots. It's purported to be why the Japanese live so long and have lower incidence of heart disease.

John Elliott wrote:The big benefit of natto is supposed to be the nattokinase enzyme, which dissolves arterial plaques and blood clots. It's purported to be why the Japanese live so long and have lower incidence of heart disease.

There are tons of reasons why the Japanese live so long and have a low incidence of heart disease. In my opinion, #1 and #2 are portion control and exercise.

Traditionally, they eat a wide range of probiotic foods including miso, natto, real shoyu, umeboshi, amazake, and a vast array of tsukemono (lacto-fermented vegetables). Many Japanese eat natto, but there are plenty of Japanese who won't touch it - my wife being one.

The Japanese diet has a lot of variety to it, with lots of seasonal and regional variations. Even Denny's in Japan has a seasonal menu, that includes seasonal vegetables.

The Japanese are educated about and interested in health. There are always health programs on TV, including primetime. Unthinkable in the US.

Social factors cannot be overlooked. There was one study of Japanese immigrants to the US. Those who were a part of Japanese social networks in the US retained many of the health benefits seen in Japan, while those who were not connected to the Japanese community had disease rates of normal Americans. I believe the study was controlled for diet, but I am not certain.

John - if you don't like soy maybe you are allergic to it? I never liked soy (or raw sprouted beans) - I did however like edemame, but had a massive allergic reaction to them first time ever I are them (I ate a lot, never suspecting to be allergic). Some times when you don't like something it is your body's way of telling you that it isn't good for you - and soy is one of the most allergenic food items around.

I normally ferment my beans. I eat them usually 2-3 times a week. I usually eat a different kind each time. Originally, I put some kefir in there and they started to ferment. I think it makes it easier to digest. When I'm done with a batch, I'll put a few tablespoons of the old fermented beans in the new cooked beans.

I eat natto regularly too, but like the other John, I have to mix them with other things that actually have flavor and have a texture other than slimy. There's an extremely healthy powder called amla-indian gooseberry. Powder + slime = no longer too powdery and no longer too slimy. I usually eat them in nori wraps with walnuts, olives and other flavorful items.
John S
PDX OR

And miso...need to make miso. And Judith's fermented beans. We love bean dip. Time to class it up with some culturing!

I saw my earlier post and I realize that I need to update it.  I don't ferment beans in a jar that way anymore. It got questionable a little too frequently and for me, bad smells are teaching me that I'm doing something wrong.  Now I sprout my beans, which does a lot of the same good things, but leads me to bad smells less frequently.
John S
PDX OR