• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
  • r ranson
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Liv Smith
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Matt McSpadden
  • thomas rubino

After Water Capture - Now What?

 
Posts: 24
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi everyone! This is so exciting talking about permaculture with people all around the world..

Yesterday was a milestone for my project because I was able to stop all water loss across my property for the first time. It has taken me 7 months of occasional (hot, exhausting, lazy, etc. haha) hard work to get this done.
Now that I have the water holding steady on my land and infiltrating in a day or two following a storm, instead of shooting over the surface and off onto the road, I need to figure out what kinds of things to start planting and when.
Part of me feels like it's good enough to be hydrating the soil for future planting, since there is obvious organic debris capture happening and the moisture may be good for seeds waiting in the soil (bentonite). But I also would love to take advantage of that hydration that I've created. So I'm wondering if it would be better to wait until the Fall to plant even though the rain stops at that time or to plant during the Summer monsoon where we do get occasional rain storms.
I also wonder if anyone here has had success with certain species in USDA zone 8b (West Texas). I'm guessing that it's most likely going to be the Acacia seeds I mail-ordered, native Mesquite, and things like that for establishing shade. I have patches of thick shrubs and forbes but no grass grows around the creosote/saltbush I hear so I may remove it in areas to see if grasses come back (the area was tropical in the 1980s before ignorant land management deforested and then sheep-grazed the plants out by their roots).
Out here we have a very hot desert climate with a monsoon season during the summer. I bought my parcel because of the huge wash criscrossing it, and sure enough I get a lot of water during rainstorms. It was wonderful during yesterday morning's surprise rain storm to be out there and see my berms hold and the bioswale pools full finally after losing so much flow out onto the road in previous decent precipitation events.
So now that I've reached that point, I'd like to see if anybody has thoughts about particular plant and tree species that do well with hot sunny days and intermittent flooding (of swales) in summertime.
Thanks!
 
steward
Posts: 15731
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4236
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lucky you to have bentonite soil.

How large of an area are we talking about?

I would suggest starting with perennial vegetables:

https://permies.com/t/142540/perennial-vegetables/Growing-longevity-spinach-zone

https://permies.com/t/155668/Jerusalem-artichokes-Chinese-water-chestnuts#1219692

 
gardener
Posts: 802
Location: 4200 ft elevation, zone 8a desert, high of 118F, lows in teens
529
7
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Your land sounds very degraded.  Do you have any pictures you can share?  I know we'd all love to see what plants are there and your work thus far. Sharing pics here is done via the "attachments" tab just below the reply window when you write a reply. Also, are there any buildings on your land? Do you have water, or is this all being done with rainwater?

One thing my husband and I've been doing  after listening to more Geoff Lawton talks - he says that in desert restoration, start with succulents and groundcovers immediately. They hold moisture. In our cultivated gardens we use both native and non-native succulent plants, and in the open landscape we are focusing on native ones or ones that are already here. Out in the open we are encouraging and protecting all the prickly pear and cholla we can.  We have to protect them from javelina here or they will be dug up and eaten before they get big.

Do any cactus grow by the side of the road in your area?  Any pads or branches you can harvest?  All you have to do is cut off a pad near the attachment, let it dry one day, and then stick it in the ground at least 2-3 inches.  In truth, they can root from just laying on the ground. As for other groundcovers - you will likely see many sprout and grow on their own with the added moisture you are collecting.  The variety in the SW is amazing.

You may also want to help those grasses growing with a mixture such as this one Plants of the Southwest - Dryland grasses mix

Grasses are key to grasslands, funny as that sounds.  Their roots exude compounds that feed and build the soil biome and tilth.  This is like secret sauce for the soil.  haha

The acacias and such you mentioned are a great start, too.  I'm in zone 8a NM, and we have lots of whitethorn acacia here.  It smells like the most amazing perfume when it blooms, which is during and after the warm monsoons.  We encourage it around our garden as a windbreak.

Of course, mesquites will pay you back in many dividends.  I've read they produce more nitrogen than the acacia, and they also shift the soil pH underneath them as they grow and shed their leaves.  Mesquites seem more effective nurse plants than acacia and they produce a lot of food for animals.

In the meantime, as rains fall and water soaks in, you will see all sorts of wildflowers begin to grow.  You could seed with wildflower mixes, but in my experience also in zone 8a aridlands, the ground is full of seed just waiting for enough moisture to fall and collect.  Different ones will germinate at different times of year, as some like cool soil, others only germinate in hot soil. It's magical.

Our plant succession plant for our location is a little different than yours, as your land sounds more degraded.  We have many acacias and mesquites here, Mormon tea, native wolfberry, some cacti, and even a lovely ocotillo.  Also in the ground are many native grass seeds and so many wildflowers that sprout in the areas water collects. We also have lots of chamissa (rabbitbrush, Ericameria spp) and isocama spp. short-lived perennial, shrubby wildflowers.  These are very drought resistant and provide food for animals here, and loads of compostable material for us.

So our list starts maybe a little higher than yours on the succession strategy?  Not sure without pictures.

What we are doing that might apply to your situation:

Cactus - still included, because our land here was denuded of cacti, possibly through overgrazing

Mesquites In our case they are already here, just need encouragement, water catchment.  Some are tiny stumps in the ground from years of desperate rabbits.

Palo verdes These are native here, but you might be getting to the range where they would freeze out? I think they are barely zone 8, in my opinion.  Maybe someone else in Texas can share about them?  They are very, very low water use and make beautiful filtered shade. The pods are edible like peas or beans.  And the variety known as Jerusalem Thorn is supposedly the tastiest; I haven't tried them yet.  Jerusalem thorn also requires the least water according to plant list I've looked at.  And like many tough, landscape restoring plants, these are loathed by many people.  The thorns.  The desert is prickly, may as well embrace that I say.  :-D

Native nut trees and plantsThis may be early in the succession, but these plants take so many years to grow and fruit that if the water is there we feel it's good to get them in earlier rather than later.  This may not work for your site.  For our sites we are planning pinyon pines and AZ walnut.  We only have the AZ walnut in so far - the previous owner put them in and sadly, they require a lot of water to get started. I don't recommend that one.  I haven't found a source for the pinyon just yet, so those are being bumped to later.  For medicine instead of nuts, Arizona cypress also falls into this spot for us. Those are very drought tolerant.

Black Locust - Even with the mesquites, I believe we still need some faster growing legumes to help speed the succession.  Some people use honey locust, but I've read it requires more water. Black locust can live with a minimum of 12-13 inches according to Extension reports. Black locust has the benefit of having toxic bark, so I think this makes it a little easier to protect from rabbits in the very vulnerable early years.  We still cage or use tree tubes.

Leuceana retusa - These are wonderful forage tree, so they have to be protected from rabbits and such initially.  They will freeze to the ground in very cold years and sprout back up. Also called Golden Leadball Tree. Native to some parts of Texas and NM.

Native oaks To re-establish the savanna that once was present here. (you can see in old pictures of cows or people resting under oaks scattered among the grasslands)

Then we go into Jujubes, mulberries, Mexican Elderberry and other drought tolerant, lower water use, fruiting plants.

In the pictures below, you can see that some of our trees get irrigation.  Those in the picture are part of the food garden  - they are trees surrounding the food garden to add nitrogen, windbreaks, and make shade.

The palo verdes are in a drainage ditch created by the past owner to keep this house from having water pool around it.  

The drainage ditch was totally bare until we replanted grass (dug from next to the house where we were starting garden#1) in vegetative lines to slow water in that ditch. It worked and a bunch of native plants filled the ditch the next year (including an acacia that sprouted on it's own, it's the taller shrub on the side, with reddish bark and no leaves) .  

We added rock lines to the grass lines in year 2, to slow things further.

This year (year 3) we put in the palo verdes.  They've needed watering about once a week to get started, but now that the monsoons have begun I think they may be fine.





desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4708.jpg
Vegitative lines made by planting grass to slow water in a drainage ditch, year 1
Vegitative lines made by planting grass to slow water in a drainage ditch, year 1
desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4701.JPG
Palo verdes planted in draingage ditch after other plants filled in, year 3
Palo verdes planted in draingage ditch after other plants filled in, year 3
desert-planting-techniquesIMG_5099.JPG
[Thumbnail for desert-planting-techniquesIMG_5099.JPG]
Leuceana retusa in tree tube with native groundcover at base
desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4848.JPG
[Thumbnail for desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4848.JPG]
Making half luna catchments around acacias outside the garden during monsoon season
desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4928.JPG
[Thumbnail for desert-planting-techniquesIMG_4928.JPG]
Rock mulch around a Mexican elderberry in a tree tube
 
Kim Goodwin
gardener
Posts: 802
Location: 4200 ft elevation, zone 8a desert, high of 118F, lows in teens
529
7
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
These are the tree tubes I like best, the ones in my pictures above.

They are stackable, and also can be attached together to make a wider tube.  We used so much wire fencing and rebar beforehand, it became impractical and expensive once we got to planting trees in the dozens.

These tree tubes also can be embedded in the ground with the tree seedling, giving the tree tube some stability without the use of rebar or sticks.  This isn't javelina-proof, but it has kept rabbits off the trees thus far.

ShellT® Fully Ventilated Grow Tubes from Forestry Suppliers
 
Posts: 152
Location: Southern Colorado, 6300', zone 6a, 16" precipitation
33
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Awesome work on the swales, Jadie. I was curious about what are the dimensions of the swales - depth, width, number of swales, and the distance between. I second all the recommendations and would like to include a couple more options for dryland nitrogen fixers; sagebrush, curl leaf mahogany (aka desert mahogany), russian olive, and apache plume.

But, please.... please don't start clearing your creosote and saltbush. These indicate that you have salty and alkaline soil and really are your only hope for neutralizing that salt by binding it in organic matrix. Saltbush is also extremely nutritious, and was prized by the Navajo for cattle feed. Sheep, cattle, and goats would love to eat the stuff and it will even keep you alive in a famine. Secondly, these bushes put salt particles into the air and help with cloud formation and ultimately in rainfall. These bushes are also ready-made windbreaks, and having lived in west Texas, I know the wind is crazy there. You said erosion had been a problem, well then you need those roots to stay in place. You are going to need mulch out there for your tree starts and gardens, and these bushes are your only source. Instead of clearing them, pull off their dead parts, leaf litter, and chop and drop their errant branches to get what you need. As your system evolves, those saltbushes will naturally start to fall away and be replaced by the next succession. I am seeing this on my own property, as the prickly pear is beginning to catch a fungus and die as the soil moisture increases. Be patient, and move slowly.
 
Posts: 11
Location: High prairie in Los Cerrillos, NM
3
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We also are loaded with saltbush, it is common in disturbed soil (6b NM). Birds love it, grasses are growing around it, holds the dust down and gives the rabbits somewhere to hide. Ours is over 5 feet tall in places, we’ve been trimming it with a hedge clipper along paths and it just keeps on keepin on. Also makes great kindling, and provides shade in our chicken run.

We’ve planted during monsoons, just don’t over extend yourself cuz you will need to water during the dry spells. Mulberry is doing great. Native grasses and wildflowers too. Plants of the southwest has some good seed mixes, but see what else grown in natural/wild areas nearby, if there are any.
 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 15731
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4236
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Creosote bush is one of my favorite bushes on our property in West Texas. It has pretty yellow flowers and the fruit is helpful for the wildlife.

This bush also has medicinal properties and can be made into teas and salves.

I would love to see some of the work you have been doing.
 
pollinator
Posts: 373
Location: 18° North, 97° West
132
kids trees books
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Check out Desert Harvesters for some ideas on what plants to grow.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:Lucky you to have bentonite soil.

How large of an area are we talking about?

I would suggest starting with perennial vegetables:

https://permies.com/t/142540/perennial-vegetables/Growing-longevity-spinach-zone

https://permies.com/t/155668/Jerusalem-artichokes-Chinese-water-chestnuts#1219692



I tried Okinawa and Longevity Spinaches last year but they can't be grown outside due to freezing temps.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Melissa Ferrin wrote:Check out Desert Harvesters for some ideas on what plants to grow.



It may be interesting to try some of the AZ species in case they grow in west TX..I already have a lot of Mesquite. Going to try the African reforestation method of pruning lateral trunks to spur height. Thanks.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:Creosote bush is one of my favorite bushes on our property in West Texas. It has pretty yellow flowers and the fruit is helpful for the wildlife.

This bush also has medicinal properties and can be made into teas and salves.

I would love to see some of the work you have been doing.



One of my fellow property owners here in west TX tells me Creosote/Saltbush is not native although it has been here a thousand years. And more interestingly that it prevents grass from coming in.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Leslie Moody wrote:We also are loaded with saltbush, it is common in disturbed soil (6b NM). Birds love it, grasses are growing around it, holds the dust down and gives the rabbits somewhere to hide. Ours is over 5 feet tall in places, we’ve been trimming it with a hedge clipper along paths and it just keeps on keepin on. Also makes great kindling, and provides shade in our chicken run.

We’ve planted during monsoons, just don’t over extend yourself cuz you will need to water during the dry spells. Mulberry is doing great. Native grasses and wildflowers too. Plants of the southwest has some good seed mixes, but see what else grown in natural/wild areas nearby, if there are any.



I keep meaning to grab a pillowcase and take scissors so I can harvest roadside seed but I'm not clear when they will be ready to harvest.
 
Anne Miller
steward
Posts: 15731
Location: USDA Zone 8a
4236
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
[Jadie said, "Creosote/Saltbush

I am assuming you are talking about two different plants?

Creosote, Larrea tridentata

I am only familiar with this bush:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrea_tridentata

Victor said, "This herb seems to heal nearly any skin condition, from bad insect bites to fungal rashes. It also makes skin and hair feel very good.



https://permies.com/t/101575/kitchen/Chaparral-Larrea-tridentata-skin-miracle

Saltbush, Atriplex

The favored species for human consumption is now usually garden orache (A. hortensis), but many species are edible and the use of Atriplex as food is known since at least the late Epipaleolithic (Mesolithic).

Common orache (A. patula) is attested as an archaeophyte in northern Europe, and the Ertebølle culture is presumed to have used it as a food. Its seed has been found among apparent evidence of cereal preparation and cooking at Late Iron Age villages in Britain



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atriplex

This one I am not familiar with assuming It is one I have not tried to identify.

Here is a thread on orache, if they are the same thing, I do not know:

https://permies.com/t/growing-orach

Or maybe you are talking about something entirely different?
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Skyler Weber wrote:Awesome work on the swales, Jadie. I was curious about what are the dimensions of the swales - depth, width, number of swales, and the distance between. I second all the recommendations and would like to include a couple more options for dryland nitrogen fixers; sagebrush, curl leaf mahogany (aka desert mahogany), russian olive, and apache plume.

But, please.... please don't start clearing your creosote and saltbush. These indicate that you have salty and alkaline soil and really are your only hope for neutralizing that salt by binding it in organic matrix. Saltbush is also extremely nutritious, and was prized by the Navajo for cattle feed. Sheep, cattle, and goats would love to eat the stuff and it will even keep you alive in a famine. Secondly, these bushes put salt particles into the air and help with cloud formation and ultimately in rainfall. These bushes are also ready-made windbreaks, and having lived in west Texas, I know the wind is crazy there. You said erosion had been a problem, well then you need those roots to stay in place. You are going to need mulch out there for your tree starts and gardens, and these bushes are your only source. Instead of clearing them, pull off their dead parts, leaf litter, and chop and drop their errant branches to get what you need. As your system evolves, those saltbushes will naturally start to fall away and be replaced by the next succession. I am seeing this on my own property, as the prickly pear is beginning to catch a fungus and die as the soil moisture increases. Be patient, and move slowly.



I appreciate the plant list. It's funny but everyone has a differing opinion about everything. I might try removing a patch of already almost dead Saltbush as an experiment, planting grass seed there and/or seeing if anything springs up in their place naturally. I tend to keep the vast majority of existing plants in my design work, too.
 
Kim Goodwin
gardener
Posts: 802
Location: 4200 ft elevation, zone 8a desert, high of 118F, lows in teens
529
7
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If the saltbush Jadie May has there is the one we have here it may be more like this one below. On this website about SW flora, they say that Texas has 25 species of Atriplex.
Atriplex lentiformis, Quailbush or SaltBush




Here's more cool info from that site:

Importance to Wildlife
Big saltbush provides excellent forage and protection (cover) for several wildlife species including Mule Deer and Proghorn. Evidence shows that Big Saltbush foliage and seeds will be eaten by rabbits and small rodents and deer mice ate its seeds. Gorden W. Gullion, 1964, reports that Big Saltbush was utilized by ring-necked pheasants and Gambel's Quail.
It is used to some extent by livestock.

The U. S. Forest Service has an excellent site with detailed information about Quailbush on-line at: Fire Effects Information System (FEIS).

Special Value to Native Bees, Butterflies, Birds and Insects
Saltbush Sootywing, Hesperopsis alpheus, Caterpillar Hosts; Adult Food: Flower nectar.
MacNeill's Sootywing, Hesperopsis gracielae, Caterpillar Hosts; Adult Food: Flower nectar.

Etymology:
The genus "Atriplex" originated in Latin (derived from the Greek name "atraphaxes" or atriplex. The name was applied to the "edible oraches" (the common name of Atriplex is saltbush and orache). The species epithet "lentiformis" is from "lentiform" or lentiformis meaning lens-shaped or shaped like a lens, respectively, referring to the fruits of the plant.

Ethnobotany
Quailbush has been used for food and traded by southwestern United States indigenous peoples.
Cahuilla Drug, Cold Remedy, Nose Medicine, Food, Porridge, Other Soap, Dried leaves smoked for head colds; fresh leaves chewed for head colds; Crushed flowers, stems and leaves steamed and inhaled for nasal congestion, seeds ground into a flour and used to make mush or small cakes, crushed leaves and roots used as a soap and rubbed into articles for cleaning.
Papago Food, Unspecified, Seeds used for food.
Pima Drug, Dermatological Aid, Dried Food, Food, Porridge, Starvation Food, Other, Soap, Poultice of powdered root applied to sores, seeds roasted, dried, parched and stored, seeds pit roasted, dried, parched, added to water and eaten as a thick gruel, seeds pounded into meal, cooked, mixed with water and eaten as mush, tiny seeds formerly roasted and eaten during famines, leaves rubbed in water and lather and used for washing clothing and baskets, seeds used as 'starvation food', seeds used for food.
Yuma Food, Porridge, Seeds boiled to make a mush. seeds pounded, pit baked, ground, mixed with water to form stiff dough and eaten raw.



Neat plant!  I've noticed people raising cattle may not dislike anything they don't consider high value forage.  I guess that's the bias you are hinting at, Jadie May?

Whatever you end up doing, we'd love to see some pictures!  Hope you get some great monsoons your way.

 
Kim Goodwin
gardener
Posts: 802
Location: 4200 ft elevation, zone 8a desert, high of 118F, lows in teens
529
7
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When you are trying to tell if seed is ready to harvest, make sure the seed is dry, and - with most plants - see if it comes off the plant fairly easily.  Every plant's seed is ready at a slightly different time.

Some seed doesn't come off very easily, like pods of certain trees and shrubs.  Texas Mountain Laurel is a great example!  And they are so hard to get out of the pod, and once out, have a crazy hard seed coat that has to be penetrated (and not too far!) it makes you wonder how they ever germinate on their own.

Good luck! Lots of free seed coming on right now.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Kim Goodwin wrote:Your land sounds very degraded.  Do you have any pictures you can share?  I know we'd all love to see what plants are there and your work thus far. Sharing pics here is done via the "attachments" tab just below the reply window when you write a reply. Also, are there any buildings on your land? Do you have water, or is this all being done with rainwater?

One thing my husband and I've been doing  after listening to more Geoff Lawton talks - he says that in desert restoration, start with succulents and groundcovers immediately. They hold moisture. In our cultivated gardens we use both native and non-native succulent plants, and in the open landscape we are focusing on native ones or ones that are already here. Out in the open we are encouraging and protecting all the prickly pear and cholla we can.  We have to protect them from javelina here or they will be dug up and eaten before they get big.

Do any cactus grow by the side of the road in your area?  Any pads or branches you can harvest?  All you have to do is cut off a pad near the attachment, let it dry one day, and then stick it in the ground at least 2-3 inches.  In truth, they can root from just laying on the ground. As for other groundcovers - you will likely see many sprout and grow on their own with the added moisture you are collecting.  The variety in the SW is amazing.

You may also want to help those grasses growing with a mixture such as this one Plants of the Southwest - Dryland grasses mix

Grasses are key to grasslands, funny as that sounds.  Their roots exude compounds that feed and build the soil biome and tilth.  This is like secret sauce for the soil.  haha

The acacias and such you mentioned are a great start, too.  I'm in zone 8a NM, and we have lots of whitethorn acacia here.  It smells like the most amazing perfume when it blooms, which is during and after the warm monsoons.  We encourage it around our garden as a windbreak.

Of course, mesquites will pay you back in many dividends.  I've read they produce more nitrogen than the acacia, and they also shift the soil pH underneath them as they grow and shed their leaves.  Mesquites seem more effective nurse plants than acacia and they produce a lot of food for animals.

In the meantime, as rains fall and water soaks in, you will see all sorts of wildflowers begin to grow.  You could seed with wildflower mixes, but in my experience also in zone 8a aridlands, the ground is full of seed just waiting for enough moisture to fall and collect.  Different ones will germinate at different times of year, as some like cool soil, others only germinate in hot soil. It's magical.

Our plant succession plant for our location is a little different than yours, as your land sounds more degraded.  We have many acacias and mesquites here, Mormon tea, native wolfberry, some cacti, and even a lovely ocotillo.  Also in the ground are many native grass seeds and so many wildflowers that sprout in the areas water collects. We also have lots of chamissa (rabbitbrush, Ericameria spp) and isocama spp. short-lived perennial, shrubby wildflowers.  These are very drought resistant and provide food for animals here, and loads of compostable material for us.

So our list starts maybe a little higher than yours on the succession strategy?  Not sure without pictures.

What we are doing that might apply to your situation:

Cactus - still included, because our land here was denuded of cacti, possibly through overgrazing

Mesquites In our case they are already here, just need encouragement, water catchment.  Some are tiny stumps in the ground from years of desperate rabbits.

Palo verdes These are native here, but you might be getting to the range where they would freeze out? I think they are barely zone 8, in my opinion.  Maybe someone else in Texas can share about them?  They are very, very low water use and make beautiful filtered shade. The pods are edible like peas or beans.  And the variety known as Jerusalem Thorn is supposedly the tastiest; I haven't tried them yet.  Jerusalem thorn also requires the least water according to plant list I've looked at.  And like many tough, landscape restoring plants, these are loathed by many people.  The thorns.  The desert is prickly, may as well embrace that I say.  :-D

Native nut trees and plantsThis may be early in the succession, but these plants take so many years to grow and fruit that if the water is there we feel it's good to get them in earlier rather than later.  This may not work for your site.  For our sites we are planning pinyon pines and AZ walnut.  We only have the AZ walnut in so far - the previous owner put them in and sadly, they require a lot of water to get started. I don't recommend that one.  I haven't found a source for the pinyon just yet, so those are being bumped to later.  For medicine instead of nuts, Arizona cypress also falls into this spot for us. Those are very drought tolerant.

Black Locust - Even with the mesquites, I believe we still need some faster growing legumes to help speed the succession.  Some people use honey locust, but I've read it requires more water. Black locust can live with a minimum of 12-13 inches according to Extension reports. Black locust has the benefit of having toxic bark, so I think this makes it a little easier to protect from rabbits in the very vulnerable early years.  We still cage or use tree tubes.

Leuceana retusa - These are wonderful forage tree, so they have to be protected from rabbits and such initially.  They will freeze to the ground in very cold years and sprout back up. Also called Golden Leadball Tree. Native to some parts of Texas and NM.

Native oaks To re-establish the savanna that once was present here. (you can see in old pictures of cows or people resting under oaks scattered among the grasslands)

Then we go into Jujubes, mulberries, Mexican Elderberry and other drought tolerant, lower water use, fruiting plants.

In the pictures below, you can see that some of our trees get irrigation.  Those in the picture are part of the food garden  - they are trees surrounding the food garden to add nitrogen, windbreaks, and make shade.

The palo verdes are in a drainage ditch created by the past owner to keep this house from having water pool around it.  

The drainage ditch was totally bare until we replanted grass (dug from next to the house where we were starting garden#1) in vegetative lines to slow water in that ditch. It worked and a bunch of native plants filled the ditch the next year (including an acacia that sprouted on it's own, it's the taller shrub on the side, with reddish bark and no leaves) .  

We added rock lines to the grass lines in year 2, to slow things further.

This year (year 3) we put in the palo verdes.  They've needed watering about once a week to get started, but now that the monsoons have begun I think they may be fine.







Yes my project is transforming desertified land. TY for the plant suggestions..
 
pollinator
Posts: 146
Location: Sonoran Desert, USA
63
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
re: the saltbush and creosote folks have talked about...

while it can be good for other animals, if you have the right variety of saltbush, you can eat it yourself, instead. With the higher mineral and salinity content, in some cases saltbush leaves are burned and the ash is used as something called a culinary ash, and added to food (Hopi Piki bread is one well known food using this near my area - mentioned briefly here https://tohonochul.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/WEB2013OfficialGuideNEW.pdf )

However, saltbush can also be really helpful in areas that are now going to be having a lot more water than normal, if there is any build up of minerals or salinity, so if any grow near areas where you may be having any increased water storage, it might be worth leaving it there for a while and seeing how salinity levels are, perhaps?

creosote - I literally make a suntea out of the leaves and use it as a slightly anti-bacterial cleaning liquid for my counters and floors, if necessary, and just rinse it off. This stuff is great.

But also, re: saltbush and creosote and keeping grass away. Honestly...I have not seen evidence of this (edit: in terms of allelopathic issues and the like, I mean).

Most of the research I've seen that seemed reliable indicates that while they have seen evidence that while some chemicals that exist in the plants could be problematic, they are not seeing evidence of this being a problem when actually examined in the real world - grass grows beneath creosote just fine, basically, in many case (including my own yard).

That's not to say creosote or saltbush don't outcompete grass sometimes, obviously.  

What I see more often around me is the fact that creosote and saltbush can grow in some areas that are very difficult for other plants, including grass, to survive in - too hot, too dry, too poor a soil. So when the other plants are weakened or struggling, the creosote or saltbush outcompetes them and the other plants don't survive.

But in areas where there's a bit more rain, or a bit better soil...I'm seeing grass grow among the saltbush or creosote much more reliably, and I can only assume it's because it's because the area is better for the grass so the advantage by the creosote or saltbush is not as great, if that makes sense?

So if you don't have ANY grass beneath the creosote and saltbush, it might be more a case of the area not being very hospitable for it, potentially. It may be hospitable enough for grass to survive if there is not creosote or saltbush, admittedly, but...guess I"m just mentioning this to say that it's probably not an automatic thing that grass will come back/grow well once creosote and saltbush are gone, is maybe the best way to say it?

But congrats on getting the water to stay on your land!  That's fantastic, and I hope you can get your land set up just perfect for what you want.
 
Jadie May
Posts: 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for your thoughts. The land is indeed dry desert. Many patches of summer monsoon lush grasses, forbs, and shrubs dot the place amidst barren areas eroded due to a lack of water capture grading (until I get my hands on those spots).
I have a small collection of native grass seeds from the road and will make seed bombs to place in the swales I plan to dig out in those areas.
 
If you two don't stop this rough-housing somebody is going to end up crying. Sit down and read this tiny ad:
Freaky Cheap Heat - 2 hour movie - HD streaming
https://permies.com/wiki/238453/Freaky-Cheap-Heat-hour-movie
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic