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No one Warned you about all the dishes!

 
Kate Muller
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Homesteading creates a mountain of dishes all the time.    

You have this dream of growing and preserving most of the food you eat and you set off to build you Permie homestead.  As the years go by you start producing more and more food.  You expand and diversify the foods you produce.  You learn to cook everything from scratch and to use what you have on hand.  This alone creates a ton of dishes that need to be washed.  Add in fermenting, dehydrating, water bath canning, pressure canning, and freeze drying into the mix and you have even more dishes, jars, bottles, trays, canners, bowls, knives, cutting boards, crocks, kitchen gadgets, and cookware to clean everyday.  
This all gets to an insane level when you get to the point of growing all the veggies you eat and about half the fruit you eat in a year. Living in a cold climate with a short growing season you can easily spend 45 minutes a day just washing everything for just 2 people.  

It will be a long 2 months of harvesting, cleaning and preserving all the amazing foods we produce and the only part I hate about it is all the time washing all dishes.  
 
 
Pearl Sutton
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Heh. Yup.
And there's no such thing as a kitchen big enough for all of this.
Pressure cookers under the beds....
:D

Gardens in my mind never need water
Castles in the air never have a wet basement
Well made buildings are fractal -- equally intelligent design at every level of detail.
Bright sparks remind others that they too can dance
What I am looking for is looking for me too!

 
Edward Norton
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Oh no! I totally sympathise and I’m not currently growing much. I do visit a farm twice a week and a farmers market, so constantly stocking up and preserving foods other people have made. My issue is jars. I love jars. I have hundreds of jars. The family love the food that comes out of jars. It’s the only ammunition I have when they question why I have two whole shelving setups dedicated to jars, both empty and full.

Cargo bikes are cool

 
Mike Barkley
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It's not just the dishes used for cooking & preparing food either. I usually have about a dozen plates & bowls on the counter with seeds drying from whatever crops are currently being harvested. So we can make more dirty dishes next year:)

Argue for your limitations and they are yours forever.

 
Pearl Sutton
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Oh yes. Jars. If you are careful, you can stack boxes of them into towers...  Be sure to label them!

Seeds! I swear I end up with every flat surface in the house covered with seed trays drying things. Pro tip, label them! It's sooo easy to say "I'll remember!"     see  Squash growing experience for what happens...

Gardens in my mind never need water
Castles in the air never have a wet basement
Well made buildings are fractal -- equally intelligent design at every level of detail.
Bright sparks remind others that they too can dance
What I am looking for is looking for me too!

 
Michael Cox
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From time to time at work I get to use the superb professional catering dishwasher. It is absolutely amazing. 3 minutes to do a load, really hot, really high pressure jet wash. Everything gets hot enough that it air dries afterwards in about 3 more minutes. It recycles the water, so it gets changed about once per day (more often in a busier kitchen I guess).

It absolutely transforms the whole cooking process, because you can get everything clean so fast and so easily that you need fewer pots to start with. And there is no cost to doing a partial load - it doesn't tie up the machine for ages, or waste water and heat. And because you wash everything immediately you are finished with it, your surfaces stay clean and tidy, and nothing get dried on to a pot because you didn't get to it fast enough.

It is such an incredible upgrade over a domestic dishwasher, and if you are catering on that scale it may be a worthwhile investment.


(Hint: look for second hand from restaurants closing down!

Catering dishwashers)

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Carla Burke
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I posted in another thread recently, that without the dishwasher, I'd never get out of the kitchen. I wasn't kidding.  John is a retired French & Japanese chef, makes a variety of ferments (saur kraut, kim chi, mead, beer, etc), does charcuterie, curing, yogurt & cheese making, & does almost all of the breaking down of our critters. I'm an herbalist and make all my own household cleaners, soaps, hygiene products, first aid & health products, am a good cook in my own right, and a former (bakery) baker, and am relearning how to do it all, keto friendly, plus I make all my dogs food, and treats for both our dogs, dehydrate everything I'm able to, make jams, jellies, pickles, relishes... and we both can. I've seriously considered asking if we could hire someone to come help with cleanups, because our kitchen is in constant use, even when we aren't in there, there's always something in process, and it's never, ever "just clean". It's a working kitchen, in every sense of the phrase.

"The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance."~Ben Franklin
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." ~ Plato

 
Jan White
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I've gotten good at minimizing dishes. I cook everything from scratch for two people and only need to do dishes once or twice a week. It takes at least an hour cause we don't have real running water, just a garden hose with a ball valve on the end coming from a bucket on a shelf.

If we use a cutting board to prepare something, we'll often eat off of it, too. I don't wash a cutting board unless it's actually dirty. Brushing off crumbs or giving it a quick wipe is usually all it needs. I cut up some beets for lunch today. The cutting board is still pink. That doesn't bother me.

We reuse drinking jars many times before washing.

If your napkin is dirty anyway, sometimes you can just wipe your plate off with it and reuse the plate for the next meal.

I often use the same chopping knife quite a few times before washing. If I'm just chopping vegetables, Ill give it a rinse or quick wipe and leave it out to reuse.

I'm on a puffed amaranth kick right now and have a bowl of it pretty much every day. When I'm done eating, the bowl just has a bit of amaranth dust in it. No need to wash that, especially if I'm eating amaranth again tomorrow.

My husband has bread and butter at some point pretty much every day. He uses the same knife and plate or cutting board for days.

I guess some people might find it gross, but to me it's like showering when you need to versus on some socially acceptable schedule.
 
L. Johnson
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I used to have bad dish cleaning habits and things collected. Then I moved here, where the ants will come for their feast within 20 minutes of it being out exposed on the counter or table.

Now the dishes get cleaned promptly and everything put away as soon as possible.

We do make a lot of dishes though, like everyone said - ferments, pickles, seed drying, cooking, eating, etc. It's a bit hectic but we manage to get everything cleaned up every night - usually my wife and I both wash a sink full of dishes 2-3 times each in a day.

一期一会

 
Kate Muller
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Pearl Sutton wrote:Heh. Yup.
And there's no such thing as a kitchen big enough for all of this.
Pressure cookers under the beds....
:D



With my small kitchen this time of year the dinning room and the living room both wind up getting used for storage, food prep, seed saving and small garden tool storage.  Their is no doubt our house is a farm house this time of year.  When it isn't harvest season most of this stuff lives on  shelving in the basement.  

 
Kate Muller
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Edward Norton wrote:Oh no! I totally sympathise and I’m not currently growing much. I do visit a farm twice a week and a farmers market, so constantly stocking up and preserving foods other people have made. My issue is jars. I love jars. I have hundreds of jars. The family love the food that comes out of jars. It’s the only ammunition I have when they question why I have two whole shelving setups dedicated to jars, both empty and full.



When we first moved to our current homestead my husband foolish joked that I could set up a store and start selling canning jars.  We had around 200 at the time. I told him we didn't have nearly enough and he looked at me like we would never use them all.  Up until this point I had been slowly collecting them when I found them deeply discounted, in second hand shops, yard sales, flea markets, and thrift stores.   Somewhere around our 3rd or 4th year  of gardening my dear husband realized that my stash of jars was not nearly enough to preserve all the yummy food we were producing.
 
Jennie Little
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I agree with the original premise. It's worse when you're also trying to become minimalist instead of a hoarder. I don't do 1/2 the food prep many of you do, but if I do any, I'm out of pots, dishes, etc. before I cook a meal, so cleaning dishes during the day has become my spring/summer norm. I just don't have anymore the dishes and equipment (pots & pans) to not do dishes after any major effort.

This would not be possible if I also canned, fermented, and processed most of our food. My kitchen was maxed out this morning while I finished up the chicken broth, sauted chicken/onions, and peach gravy I made for the freezer!

Finished one life quest, on to the next!

 
Jenny Nazak
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YES! I take a similar approach. Also I usually use the same stainless-steel dish & spoon for every meal. It doesn't need to bewashed everytime (for example, if I ate a sandwich and only dry bread crumbs are left in the dish).

Dishes that are greasy, I will often put them outside and let the ants clean off the grease. Washing is then easy.  

Jan White wrote:I've gotten good at minimizing dishes. ...
If we use a cutting board to prepare something, we'll often eat off of it, too. I don't wash a cutting board unless it's actually dirty. Brushing off crumbs or giving it a quick wipe is usually all it needs. I cut up some beets for lunch today. The cutting board is still pink. That doesn't bother me.
We reuse drinking jars many times before washing.

Writer, artist, permaculture educator in a historic seaside neighborhood in Daytona Beach, Florida USA. Author of DEEP GREEN & other books.

 
Jeanne Wallace
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Permie Challenge — Re-engineer the $3-6K "Catering Dishwasher" for off-grid permie kitchens     [Michael Cox...you started this! LOL]

I can see it now: Rocket Stove Fired High-Pressure 3-minute Dishwasher! at Wheaton Labs

Desired features (chime in, folks...)

• Rainwater fed via gravity
• Solar-heated water would be fun, but rocket stove heat makes more sense for the many times of day the unit is needed
• Heat capture  (can the heat generated by this baby be used elsewhere)?
• Warming tray on top for rising bread or tomato starts?
• Upcycled parts  (can I reconfigure a salvaged chest freezer or fridge to create this beast?)
• Upright  (no bending over to load/unload)
• Bicycle powered?  Because most of us would rather ride a stationary bicycle than do dishes, right?

Screen-Shot-2022-08-23-at-9.50.19-AM.png
Catering Dishwasher (current model)
Catering Dishwasher (current model)

Melding permaculture, bau-biologie, holistic nutrition oncology and functional medicine since 1997. www.Nutritional-Solutions.net, www.facebook.com/CacheSoiltoTable, www.PoSHretreat.org.

 
leigh gates
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In an aptment with a “one butt” size kitchen I swish dishes immediately in the catch bucket, the one used for that first H2o out of facet. Then either into drip thingy over the double sink (clean enough) or the dishwasher direct (greasy. Unsafe to leave, yuck etc). Clean are used directly. That frees up the shelves. Oh the bucket flushes toliot  or keeps me watering plants & compost regularly. Guinea pig water bottle also waters house plants so I can give her fresh every day in this brutal heat. Since this developed gradually, adding one step at a time, it really goes smoothly and doesn't add time to chores. I admit to few personal plates etc and guests bring their own. Caning, that hot water is great dish washing, or pour on unwanted grass while killing hot. Floating a smaller lid inside the pot, bucket  prevents slosh while a small curb procured wagon protects my old back. I’m lazy (I prefer “efficient”) so economizing the steps is a gleeful hobby. Ok, I admit, behind couch, under bed etc does house the big intermittent use items

Still slingin’ Avacado pits

 
Carla Burke
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And, our dishwasher died, 3 days ago... I'm dying, here!

"The only thing...more expensive than education is ignorance."~Ben Franklin
"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." ~ Plato

 
Ulla Bisgaard
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I don’t really have that problem. I was taught by my mother to set up a big tub with hot soapy water, one with clean water and a drying stand. Then also and to set up a scrap bucket. The scarp bucket are always there anyway, so dishes gets scraped right away.
As I work, dirty dishes goes into the bucket to soak. In between when there are small breaks, I wash some dishes and move them to the second bucket and on to the drying stand. A drying stand is just a cookie sheet with holes in it.
By the time I am done, so are the dishes.
We have a dish washer, so if it’s clean, I will take them directly from the soak to the dishwasher, but more often I clean as I go.
It makes it easier though that I work with a partner (my son) in the kitchen. We get into a rhythm, and things get done fast.
If I am alone, I will just wash with the first bucket, and then use the dishwasher for rinse and dry. That’s a lot faster than running it full circle.

Live, love life holistically

 
Anne Miller
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A lot of those dishes, bowls, and utensils can be quickly resolved by just raising them in hot water.

Rinse in hot water, set in dish drain to drip dry then put back in their proper locations.

I have a very small kitchen so I have learned not to use unnecessary dishes and utensils.

I also started reusing the bowl that I made the batter in by rinsing quickly to reuse as a serving dish, etc.

If we concentrate on being efficient our lives are a lot simpler.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

 
Angela Wilcox
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I too appreciate efficiency and designed my kitchen so when I wash an item, I put it away on the shelf, which is open bottom, and it drip dries into the sink or into little trays, which I can remove and use to water indoor plants. I only towel dry my iron skillets.
0007C14E-6A70-4BC6-97F3-9E00058652BF.jpeg
Drip dry kitchen storage
Drip dry kitchen storage

Joy to You

 
Mary Cook
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Well...I've always admitted I'm a pervert. I LIKE washing dishes. And I do get to indulge this enough, cooking and canning for two people...but I generally wash dishes every other day, takes half an hour or so--the only dishwasher in our kitchen is me.I store canning jars in boxes stacked upstairs--I store them clean but I still wash them before use, however during canning season I typically wash enough jars for the next project and leave them upside down on a cloth; once they're there I figure they're okay for a week. We don't have running hot water so I have to heat my dishwater, but it is running water. What I do is put all the silverware on one side of the dish tub, add soap, pour in the hot water and stack plates on the other side, then the cups fit in on top of the silverware, and I start with water too hot, let it sit and soak the first round of dishes, but get them done in time to get at least the bowls into very hot water. I park a big stainless steel bowl on top to rinse the plates, then top it off and dip everything else in it. I once calculated that I only use about four gallons of water--but then my husband pointed out that we rinse everything before stacking it on the crude table next to the sink where dishes wait to be washed. One dishrack doesn't suffice for everything to dry so I put a dishtowel down on a nearby little table and put extra stuff there.
 
Heidi Schweitzer
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Living tiny in our skoolie for 4 years has taught me so much about only using and keeping what we need on the daily, as far as dishes & pots & pans go. Storage space is very limited and water conservation is high priority. I usually heat up my biggest stainless steel bowl full of water on the propane stove so it gets good and hot, faster than running and waiting on hot from the spigot, wash all the big stuff leaving utensils last, reheat the left over water and dump it over the utensils in the dish pan. All goes in the drying rack to air dry. Typical no-dishwasher- but-me-style, just on a gallon or 2 of water. I love my tiny kitchen when it’s all clean and shiny-shiny with the beautiful colors of lemon vinegar, fermenting carrots, drying herbs and seeds and fresh fruit anywhere there’s a spot on the counter!
I am also in the jar lovers club… what is it with them?? There will ALWAYS be room for just one more … because you never know! Flowers, leftover fresh herbs from last nights supper prep, salad dressing, sharing a last minute gift of dried herbs with a friend… they are also beautiful just sitting in a window.
Happy homesteading friends!
 
Sena Kassim
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Ohhhh my, great post! All those alluring homesteading books!! Garden, grow more food and collect more jars...no one ever mentions those dishes. ahaha Glad you spoke up.

We too have so many dishes...I make cheese and ferments. Being able to sanitize everything is a must. Usually 2-3 loads daily of dishes. I also milk twice a day into glass jars and then filter the milk into clean quart jars. I love making kumbocha and ginger beer, or other herbal beverages.
Daughter takes her lunch to school daily. I just eat apples/fruit during the day. Minimize the lunch dishes.

Dig the thoughts on a catering dish washer!! I am totally going to look into this. I also make goat milk caramels. I am thinking of creating a small commercial kitchen in the workshop. I make soap too.

Happy farming and happy scrubbing.
 
John F Dean
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Yeah, canning season seems to be the worst time for dishwashing.  There is an endless supply of dirty dishes.   It looks as if we have another 2 weeks before things will taper off.  

At my age, Happy Hour is a nap.

 
Heather Staas
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I hear ya,  ugh.    I have an 8x12 kitchen.    I end up making a LOT of one pot dishes so there is less clean up, and using my outdoor grill as much as possible when the weather cooperates.   I also do a lot of big batches on a weekend and then making heat and go servings either canned or in my fridge so I'm not constantly creating so many pieces of things that need washing.   I'm trying to be better about cleaning as I go, or making sure the dishes are done before bed so I wake up to a clean kitchen, but it doesn't always happen.  Canning in a kitchen this size is a whole other mess level!

(and no,  it does not usually look like this;  this was post-painting-results photo lol.  I only wish it were always this uncluttered)
ktichen.jpg
[Thumbnail for ktichen.jpg]

"The world is changed by your example, not your opinion." ~ Paulo Coelho

 
Heather Staas
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I'm pressure canning rabbit and pumpkin tomorrow.   Maybe I'll do a PEP BB for it, and then the "dishwashing" one afterwards to motivate me to get cleaned up.   Kill two BBirds with one stone!   Wait, I can flush a toilet after clean up too..   three!  

"The world is changed by your example, not your opinion." ~ Paulo Coelho

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Kathy Vargo
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Cooking and preserving your own stuff is sooo worth it.  My dishwasher is named John, he refuses to let any other mechanical type dishwasher in or near our house.
 
John F Dean
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Our house came with a dishwasher.  It sees use during canning season which takes a huge load off the dish issue. It’s primary use is cleaning canning jars.  The other life saver during canning is the crock pot.  All meals turn into crock pot meals.

At my age, Happy Hour is a nap.

 
marie-helene kutek
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Location: SE France
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Thank God, I’m not alone!!!
And not terminally disorganised, quite the contrary: manŷ, well most, be honest,, aall available surfaces get used for a work in progress, as you have shared, seeds, herbs, lacto fermenting, tinctures, that string will be useful for herb wands/incense, a bucket of clay from next door,,
I have just harvested a load of rosemary for various purposes, nigella flowers to winnow, plums on the table …….oh and some sage.

Washing up is saved up for formal occasions when cleans hands and nails are not really negotiable; it’s the only efficient way of achieving a satisfactory manicure result.

There is no dishwasher other than me and I can make very convincing sound effects.
Problem with finding plumbers here - why is she talking about plumbers?
Well, The existing bath tub is going to move outside to create a composting container and to be replaced by a shower.
In the meantime, the tub is full of unsightly large cooking utensils which don’t fit into the double sink in the kitchen and the shower attachment is great for an initial rinse.
As much water as possible is saved in pots for use in the garden.

Thank you thank you and yes there are enough jars and bottles for the moment but

And no, photographs of all this learning is impossible and one last thing:
Plain white wallpaper on the table (which is a repurposed door) is used for note taking, jolly useful

Blessings grins and joy to us all
M-H

With blessings, always

 
Anne Miller
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Marie, do you not have another area to dry those herbs?

My tiny kitchen would never be able to hold all those herbs so I use my washing machine area.  Though there are only two of us and we were our clothes several days so that the washing machine doesn't get used every day.

Hint for those posts that are too big for the sink in the kitchen:  use them like a dishpan for washing dishes.  That is what I do.

I learned a long time ago not to let dishes build up ... just grab them and wash them right away and then the job is done.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

 
Erin Nakamura
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Im an extreme minimalist in the kitchen.

I have about 3 knives, 2 sets long chopsticks, 1 pair bbq tongs, spyder, ladle, wood spoons, only enough plates and dishes and silverware for us and 2 friends to eat together, and only the pots and pans i really need... (I recently got a proper square omelet pan and it did wonders for my egg game) and a rice cooker that has cake and yogurt functions. So i don't have to heat the whole house to bake a cake. Oh, and I store stuff like homemade pickles in glass jars mostly.

In order to stay on top of it, we wash our dishes after we eat. My cooking isn't exactly simple either. Breakfast is rice, eggs, fish, salad, and a soup... lunch is usually a light fare like, I just have tea and a chilled noodle salad or cup of soup, or a sandwich. Then dinner is often comfort food.

倒れる七、立ち上がる八。
Fall down 7 times, stand up 8

 
It sure was nice of your sister to lend us her car. Let's show our appreciation by sharing this tiny ad:
turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies
https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies
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