Bobby Eshleman wrote:
I recognize that Capitalism has unsustainable tendencies.
paul wheaton wrote:
I wish to be clear: it is okay for them to wish for these other things to be not profit driven. But profit in permaculture is, officially, okay. Further, I wish to give the stink-eye to those that would attempt to shame others away from profit in permaculture.
Brenda Groth wrote:even if you are paying less for food cause you are growing your own, that is a net profit of what you didn't have to pay out that you would have. And there also might be non $ profits such as better health, less dr visits, exercise in fresh air, etc.. There is also the profit of more rain, better quality soil, time management, etc.. so it is hard to define profit only to $ and c
Joanne Rigutto wrote:that profit (which would be what was left over after I paid my wages and any wages or fees from employees or contractors working out here) would be what goes to expanding/improving the business, and as an operating fund to tide the business over in times of loss.
Mary Lou McFarland wrote:Profit for me means making a living. It's my wage so I can pay my bills. I think our society has gone into a dark place with the recession and the lies and deceit of investment bankers so I believe all that is truly needed is a definition of profit. It isn't an evil word. Besides, if what I read is true and my little farm can support me then how many acres (out there in the real world) can be converted from row crop monoculture to permaculture of one form or another? Without profit there is no motivation to change the world ..... and change we must!
To be honest, I am mesmerized by profit. Just for fun... let's do a math problem! Here goes. Mary Lou bought an unimproved parcel. 38 acres. a house had to be put up and her husband, who is occasionally a poopy butthead would not consider alternative building methods and the bank would barely go for the earth bermed home they ended up building. So now she has a $168,000. mortgage. On top of that, Mary Lou's husband, the PBH, had his leukemia come back followed by the bone marrow transplant, followed by liver complications, followed by three heart attacks... which then caused Mary Lou to have issues with buying, fencing materials, planting stock, chicken feed....... groceries. Mary Lou's children want her to sell out as soon as possible and move into the oldest daughters basement, where she can babysit grandchildren. Mary Lou's only plan for getting help is to contact Ellen Degeneres and hope she will gift her a tiny ground driven manure spreader and an aerator... some lime would be nice... and some seed.. and some.... you get the picture.
So, the problem to solve is... if Mary Lou is going to be forced off her land within two years... how can she pay off the mortgage (and save herself ) before that happens?
All ideas will be entertained.
Mary Lou McFarland wrote:Tyler sorry for being lazy, but where did you find the Sepp Holzer business model? I am still learning my way around all of Paul's threads.
I do not have the luxury of getting extremely philosophical about the permaculture processes. I believe we have a clear choice, save the planet or die. I have the opportunity to work at saving the planet. I still have to pay off the mortgage or I will lose that opportunity. I am not big into capitalism but participating in this society pretty much thrusts us into that realm. The bank where you borrow your money really, really wants you to participate in the program and since land can rarely be had with out the bank a person is often S.O.L.
For me, it is nuts and bolts. this is the job that has to be done. I'm the person to do it.
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