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Had cancer and beat it with alternative medicine?

 
pollinator
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Lauren Ritz wrote: The information is there. My question would be, why is it not being used?



Maybe because the information is so vague and difficult to pry out of people.  For instance in this thread, it has been very difficult to get any solid information about successful alternative cancer treatments.  People are posting what seems to me only tantalizing hints.  "Whole foods diet" "careful with diet" "no sugar" (with no definition of what is meant by "sugar") "cleansing herbs" etc.  Even what kinds of cancer have been cured has not been detailed, even though there are some 100 distinct kinds of cancer and if one has been diagnosed with cancer, one will have been told specifically what kind it is.

Maybe someone has posted detailed information and I have just missed it.

Maybe it's difficult to pry out of people because they've been mocked and ridiculed (both by people in general and by doctors) because they said they weren't taking conventional treatments? Mom had family members say she had no RIGHT to make this decision. Doctors said essentially the same thing, if in less stark terms, and wrote her off when she said she wasn't taking their treatments.

I wasn't talking about people who have had cancer when I said the information is available. The DOCTORS and researchers have the information on hundreds of thousands of patients. They have the information on how many have died within a few months of stopping their treatment. They have the information on how many have died DURING their treatment. They have the information on people who have lived for ten years or more after the doctors said they should be dead. None of this information has ever been put together to my knowledge.

"Whole foods" is a diet consisting of foods that are as close as possible to nature--steamed or raw vegetables, whole grains, no refined sugars, etc. No packaged meals or restaurant food. Simple enough to look it up, if you wanted information.

Mom had endometrial cancer. She cut out processed sugar entirely. If she wanted sweetening (which was seldom) she used honey. She was very careful about her diet, eating very little salt and sticking mostly to home-made foods. She was first diagnosed in 2006 and passed away in 2017. In her words, "I'm working for quality of life." Which she had, right up to the last month. She was taking care of her own needs within a week before she died and had no pain until that last week. I will not talk about the living because that information is, in my mind, PRIVATE.

So I ask again. The information is out there, in millions of medical records and studies. So why is it not being used?
 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:...even though there are some 100 distinct kinds of cancer...



I have a view of cancer which does not conform to chemical orthodoxy. As I see it, there is only one kind of cancer. Our bodies are like nations, and cancer is citizen cells in rebellion against oppression. This is why people use the term "fighting cancer" as if it is an enemy which needs to be destroyed... while the oppression which caused the rebellion remains unaddressed.
 
master pollinator
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Thank you Lauren.

I want to say a little more about how this kind of conversation may be vague and confusing (at least to me - but I'm kind of dense). "Look it up" isn't useful when terms like "whole foods" and "careful diet" mean different things to different people. Some people think whole grains are bad for humans because we can't digest them.  Some people think all sugars are basically the same, including honey and fruit (fructose), so when someone says "cancer cells eat sugar" we're left wondering what they precisely mean by "sugar".  A comparison - if someone says "I'm improving my life with permaculture!" and we ask them how and they reply "look it up" we won't know at all what they are talking about because there are so many kinds of permaculture - brown, purple, Mollisonian, Holmgrenian, Holzerian, Wheatonian, etc.  If someone gets defensive because we want to know if they're making herb spirals and dancing in the moonlight (purple), or if they're growing vegetables like wild plants and building rocket ovens (Wheatonian), it doesn't effectively convey information about what they mean by the term "permaculture".

 
Tyler Ludens
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Greg Mamishian wrote:
This is why people use the term "fighting cancer" as if it is an enemy which needs to be destroyed... while the oppression which caused the rebellion remains unaddressed.



I'm thinking about my husband's cancer, mostly, when reading and asking questions in this thread.  His cancer was apparently caused by chemical exposure in the past.  He's no longer exposed to that class of chemicals; in his own work he uses the safest products he can find and takes precautions which weren't available at his job decades ago.  So, for him, it's difficult to address the cause of the rebellion of his white cells because he can't go back in time to avoid those chemicals.  He feels fine now and his health is good for a guy about to turn 60.  

We can all probably benefit from "fighting cancer" by living healthier and removing toxic chemicals from our lives.

 
Greg Mamishian
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:
This is why people use the term "fighting cancer" as if it is an enemy which needs to be destroyed... while the oppression which caused the rebellion remains unaddressed.



I'm thinking about my husband's cancer, mostly, when reading and asking questions in this thread.  His cancer was apparently caused by chemical exposure in the past.  He's no longer exposed to that class of chemicals; in his own work he uses the safest products he can find and takes precautions which weren't available at his job decades ago.  So, for him, it's difficult to address the cause of the rebellion of his white cells because he can't go back in time to avoid those chemicals.  He feels fine now and his health is good for a guy about to turn 60.  

We can all probably benefit from "fighting cancer" by living healthier and removing toxic chemicals from our lives.



Toxic chemicals are also oppression which can cause rebellion to break out.

I remember when I heard the Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders say these words in 1993.  They made me laugh out loud because of the "probably".

"You know, most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know,
and we all will probably die with something sooner or later."


 
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Haven't personally had cancer, but I do personally know an old man who beat prostate cancer on his own. Hes a retired stone Mason who enjoyed drinking beer and playing pool. He got diagnosed in his seventies. He refused treatment or surgery of any kind. He started researching which led him indirectly to permaculture before it was a thing. He started planting trees and growing mushrooms.  He attributes his healing to shiitake mushrooms and mung bean sprouts. He lives in an old crumbling house overgrown with kiwis with trunks the size of trees. I've visited his place and he walked me through it in a walker. He's in his 90s now and still drinking his beer. His house is a rabbit Warren of papers from his research trying to save his own life. He is in zone 5 Michigan and grows pawpaw's, Asian pears, che, giant bamboo, there's piles of ancient logs intermingled with farm junk growing shiitakes, oysters of all kinds. I can visit him in the spring and get some photos. He is/was cancer free last time I saw him.
 
Greg Mamishian
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Dan Allen wrote:Haven't personally had cancer, but I do personally know an old man who beat prostate cancer on his own. Hes a retired stone Mason who enjoyed drinking beer and playing pool. He got diagnosed in his seventies. He refused treatment or surgery of any kind. He started researching which led him indirectly to permaculture before it was a thing. He started planting trees and growing mushrooms.  He attributes his healing to shiitake mushrooms and mung bean sprouts. He lives in an old crumbling house overgrown with kiwis with trunks the size of trees. I've visited his place and he walked me through it in a walker. He's in his 90s now and still drinking his beer. His house is a rabbit Warren of papers from his research trying to save his own life. He is in zone 5 Michigan and grows pawpaw's, Asian pears, che, giant bamboo, there's piles of ancient logs intermingled with farm junk growing shiitakes, oysters of all kinds. I can visit him in the spring and get some photos. He is/was cancer free last time I saw him.



This is what life is all about... finding your own way. Each way is unique for each individual. This is why going the way of others doesn't work. It fails because you didn't seek it out for yourself.
 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:
Of course... to remove the cancer.



To me it looks like the surgery to remove the cancer cured the cancer, not the alternative treatments to conventional post-op treatments.



Not in the case of metastasizing tumors. That's why its called "metastasizing" once it gets lose you can never cure it with surgery because it multiplies. You can only "remove it when its ripe". so the doctor says. then comes more. I heard that it accounts for 90% of all cancer deaths.
 
julian Gerona
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Lauren Ritz wrote:

Tyler Ludens wrote:

Lauren Ritz wrote:

So I ask again. The information is out there, in millions of medical records and studies. So why is it not being used?



because its going to destroy big pharma business.

 
julian Gerona
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Greg Mamishian wrote:

Tyler Ludens wrote:...even though there are some 100 distinct kinds of cancer...



I have a view of cancer which does not conform to chemical orthodoxy. As I see it, there is only one kind of cancer. Our bodies are like nations, and cancer is citizen cells in rebellion against oppression. This is why people use the term "fighting cancer" as if it is an enemy which needs to be destroyed... while the oppression which caused the rebellion remains unaddressed.



exactly my thoughts. Not only that but modern diseases, IMO. are one and the same. cause by toxins. when the disease (toxin) is mild symptoms can start with arthritis, then high blood, diabetes, heart disease and more with cancer as the culmination or the indication that the disease has gone to its max. Haven't you notice they come almost always together which the doctors call "complications". Also I use almost exactly the same treatment for all that is mentioned. which starts with blood and nerve cleansing and rejuvenation. I have dealt with four cancer cases 3 survive one died. The man is very poor his family has barely anything to eat. other modern diseases are 100% others are on going. Mostly free. One thing that I have learned when its free its "probably not effective" to most people. People is so in this money thing that they can hardly believe someone is giving something good and real for free. So I am going commercial those who want to pay can and those who want free they can.
 
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Cancer is a symptom of a weakened immune system.  The cure for cancer is to strengthen the immune system while killing the cancer cells using nutrition and supplements - and simultaneously detoxing the body with supplementation and enemas.    Gerson Therapy has been around for a century.  

But the american medical system has outlawed natural treatments for cancer,  requiring doctors to use only the standard, modern protocol of Chemo, Radiation and Surgery,   referred to by natural healers as Cut-Burn-Poison.    Nutrition and metabolic processes are not taught in medical school.   Most education is sponsored by Big Pharma and there is millions to be made in the Oncology industry.   Phyisicians can even get large kickbacks in the chemo business.   Doctors risk losing their license if they even counsel patients on nutritional therapies.  

There is a plethora of information out there,  Youtube videos can get you started,  just search for "healing cancer naturally".   Websites like GersonTreatment.com,  Books like "The Cancer Revolution" by Dr. Leigh Connealy,    "Chris Beat Cancer"  by Chris Wark.    Chris has a youtube channel called "ChrisBeatCancer" where he interviews doctors, scientists, and testimonials of people who cured their own cancer.   I think his website and book are the best place to get started as he is becoming a hub of references and opportunities for Q&A.  He always reminds us that cancer cells are ever present in our body - their job is to defend against things like toxins, and when overwhelmed, they form tumors, then when the tumors are overwhelmed or damaged, they metastisize  (my layman's understanding of the process :)

Other good references,   Dr. Stephanie Seneff who has discovered convincing trends between the meteoric rise of cancer, autoimmune diseases, autism and alzheimers  since the introduction of Roundup in the mass market in 1990.    ALso Dr. Zach Bush, M.D.     Basic things like knowing that cruciferous vegetables contain Glutathione which is powerful to protect against the damage of glyphosate.    Acetic acid  (natural sources in lemons, apple cider vinegar) and all the anti-oxidant foods like berries, can kill cancer cells.

I could ramble on for pages here - just wanted to say that there is no mystery about what causes cancer, how to prevent it and how to cure it (in most cases when all conditions are corrected like stress, diet, chemicals in environment, and a spiritual BELIEF that one can be cured).    
                                 
 
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I think that very specific terminology is being misused here. Cancer is a type of disease, of which there are many distinct types that can be differentiated between, and that respond differently to treatment, and so need to be treated individually. It is not medically helpful to lump them all together.

In the very same way, grouping all diseases together isn't helpful.

Physical symptoms like excessive chronic inflammation shouldn't be conflated with the diseases or underlying conditions that cause inflammation; we know better. There's no need to oversimplify in this sphere; it's not likely to produce any good results.

I think that where this type of thought has merit in this space is in preventative medicine, and in the more generalised context of maintaining good general health to help keep the body capable of staving off disease. There are many good and helpful practices that we can adopt to keep ourselves in shape to fight off disease, such as proper and regular hydration and not eating edible industrial products masquerading as food, and where possible avoiding regular exposure to destabilising elements, specifically carcinogens, to call back to the focus of this thread.

I think that the strengths of some Eastern or alternative medicines (some doesn't mean all; there are still snake-oil salespeople pushing things like jade coochie eggs that don't do anything) lay in maintaining health in the long-term (chronic health?), where its weaknesses are in the treatment of acute cases. Which works rather well, because Western medicine excels at acute treatment, but fails to do as well at long-term health maintenance.

But I don't think that there is any benefit to dumbing down cancer and disease research. I don't know about anyone else, but if I ever get cancer, I want there to be a new nanotechnological development that delivers the chemo meds directly, and only, to the cancerous cells, if we haven't figured out how to make the body generally inhospitable for cancers and other diseases by other methods, and I want the specific drugs for the specific species of cancer in question. I don't want someone trying to treat it like an infection, because it's not an infection.

The reason diseases have been separated into different categories is because the are different, doing different things in the body, and reacting to different treatments. Even in the realm of alternative medicine, the treatment for one isn't likely to work the same way as the treatment for another.

Would you treat an inflamed appendix with willow bark, like a fever? Or an infection like you would a fever or a cold?

-CK
 
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There could be many type of diseases but all of them resulted from inability of our immune system to prevent them. So my cure all is boost the immune system and let it cure any diseases.  Of course there are specifics to specifics but the cornerstone is healthy immune system. For example blood cells is your vehicle it carries nutrition and oxygen and garbage if its not functioning then no matter how much specific nutrition you intake its effect will be zero.
 
Chris Kott
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Ensuring immune system health is a great long-term strategy. I am not going to knock it. Let's keep ourselves as healthy as possible, for as long as possible, by doing all the good, immune and general health-supporting things we can fit into our lives.

If you already have cancer, though, it might be time for a short-term strategy. Alternative medicine isn't great with effective, short-term strategies for acute disease. I am not a fan of the cutting, and less a fan of radiation and chemo, but I also realise that past a point, some kind of acute, invasive procedure or therapy might be necessary. If I had a malignant growth somewhere relatively external that I could have removed, or that I could leave to interrupt my vital functions, I would have it removed. If it kills me, my obviously already-compromised immune system won't have a chance to do anything, even if I somehow get it working as it should again.

I think that I would embrace ideas about making the body inhospitable to disease, and providing it with an abundance of the nutrients and minerals it needs, and proper regular exercise. I do this as much as I can now, without sign of disease, and will certainly integrate these ideas into my recovery plan, should I ever need it, but I will not discard a tool without considering it in the context of the specific situation in which I find myself. A holistic approach should include the whole. Disregarding the most effective acute care available isn't inclusive of all reasonable solutions.

-CK
 
Greg Mamishian
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julian Gerona wrote:exactly my thoughts. Not only that but modern diseases, IMO. are one and the same. cause by toxins.



Toxins are not only physical chemicals. There are also the emotional toxins of anger and resentment.
 
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Chris Kott wrote: If it kills me, my obviously already-compromised immune system won't have a chance to do anything, even if I somehow get it working as it should again.


-CK



base on experience. Perhaps you have not read my post about an American retired priest who could barely finish a sentence. That was around 3 years ago. I gave him just 12 tea bags I think. That sets off his road to recovery. He is still alive. Fact is no better proof than results and my experience clearly states that the immune system can work wonders even to a dying person. To quote him when I ask him through email if he wants to try my herbs "Julian, at this point I will try anything. What do I have to lose? Death would be better than the life I am living".
 
Tyler Ludens
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julian Gerona wrote:There could be many type of diseases but all of them resulted from inability of our immune system to prevent them. So my cure all is boost the immune system and let it cure any diseases.



Not sure how this works with leukemia, in which the immune system -lymphocytes - is already boosted!
 
Lauren Ritz
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Tyler Ludens wrote:Thank you Lauren.

"Look it up" isn't useful when terms like "whole foods" and "careful diet" mean different things to different people.


True. I did put in a search for "whole foods diet" before I included the information in my post. The "ads" were for the Whole Foods store, but the next item down discussed the whole foods diet as explained to me, so I figured the "look it up" phrase wasn't out of order. I did explain what I meant by the piece about sugar and a careful diet, since you are absolutely correct that people think that means different things.
 
Greg Mamishian
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julian Gerona wrote:There could be many type of diseases but all of them resulted from inability of our immune system to prevent them.



I agree with your view, Julian.

Our bodies are constantly dealing with all sorts of disease threats to our health. We just don't notice when our body is winning... only when it's losing does it get our attention. So the problem isn't actually disease itself, but rather why our body isn't able to prevail over the disease. Even ecopurity isn't the answer for it's only compensation. Finding out what the why is for yourself is the answer, because only then can you know what to do about it. And even that isn't always an answer. Sometimes its just our turn to die.
 
julian Gerona
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

julian Gerona wrote:There could be many type of diseases but all of them resulted from inability of our immune system to prevent them. So my cure all is boost the immune system and let it cure any diseases.



Not sure how this works with leukemia, in which the immune system -lymphocytes - is already boosted!



the immune system is a complex system not just a single kind of cell.
 
julian Gerona
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Chemo radiation and other non natural cancer cure is akin to green revolution in farming. Taking care of the body health issues through immune system is akin to permaculture. work with nature and make it work for you.I hope our folks will understand and benefit from a very strong immune system. I recently had the biggest molar extracted. with zero antibiotics and pain pills. I spit the cotton that is meant to stop bleeding the moment I step out of dentist office. I deliberately make it bleed to git rid of fuss and anesthesia. The wound stops bleeding by itself once the immune system deemed its time to do so.  
 
Tyler Ludens
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julian Gerona wrote:
the immune system is a complex system not just a single kind of cell.



What part of the immune system is boosted by these treatments and how does that cure the cancer?

 
Chris Kott
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I don't think it's constructive to generalise about the speculative profit motive of big pharma. There is no question about the amounts of money involved, but I tend to stop speculating about the inner motivations of thousands of doctors and administrators because it serves no purpose but to demonise them for no reason.

I think the profit motive needs to be taken out of areas of policy decision-making to get anything like a clear picture of the merits of western medicine.

But in my opinion, it speaks to the weakness of the argument against western medicine that most criticism focuses on how much money there is to be made versus the less-centralised costs of beyond organic nutrition.

It also doesn't help that critics don't want to address the weaknesses of their arguments.

The term "alternative medicine" is non-specific, so I am not using it beyond the broadest generalization. I have seen specific methods mentioned,  and that's a vast improvement to the quality of conversation. I think that's the best way to move forward in this sphere.

I definitely think that there needs to be much greater focus on proper nutrition and way-beyond-organic foods as a normal course of events. I think that it is a cause of the kind of weakened immune response that allows our cells to replicate flaws.

But I think the anti-intellectualism that surrounds the most vocal arguments against western medicine is not helpful.

-CK
 
Greg Mamishian
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Chris Kott wrote:But in my opinion, it speaks to the weakness of the argument against western medicine that most criticism focuses on how much money there is to be made versus the less-centralised costs of beyond organic nutrition.



Good point, Chris.
The pharmaceutical industry makes money by giving people what they want. If they didn't want it they wouldn't buy it.


 
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Greg Mamishian wrote:

Chris Kott wrote:But in my opinion, it speaks to the weakness of the argument against western medicine that most criticism focuses on how much money there is to be made versus the less-centralised costs of beyond organic nutrition.



Good point, Chris.
The pharmaceutical industry makes money by giving people what they want. If they didn't want it they wouldn't buy it.




But why did they want it in the first place. Aren't they been dupe into believing that its good for them? most probably.
 
Tyler Ludens
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julian Gerona wrote:
But why did they want it in the first place. Aren't they been dupe into believing that its good for them? most probably.



Some people, or maybe many people, probably have symptoms and don't know how to treat them themselves and so they go to the doctor who prescribes pharmaceutical medications which turn out to actually relieve the symptoms.  I'm not speaking of cancer here, specifically, but rather of other disorders.  I think many people take pharmaceutical treatments because they alleviate symptoms, even if they don't treat an underlying disorder, the cause of which may not even be known.  For instance in my case I take medications for hypertension which actually do lower my blood pressure, and an antidepressant which actually does prevent depression.  The underlying cause of both of these disorders is not known by the medical establishment.  Both disorders have been chalked up to "bad genes".
 
Greg Mamishian
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

julian Gerona wrote:
But why did they want it in the first place. Aren't they been dupe into believing that its good for them? most probably.



Some people, or maybe many people, probably have symptoms and don't know how to treat them themselves and so they go to the doctor who prescribes pharmaceutical medications which turn out to actually relieve the symptoms.  I'm not speaking of cancer here, specifically, but rather of other disorders.  I think many people take pharmaceutical treatments because they alleviate symptoms, even if they don't treat an underlying disorder, the cause of which may not even be known.  For instance in my case I take medications for hypertension which actually do lower my blood pressure, and an antidepressant which actually does prevent depression.  The underlying cause of both of these disorders is not known by the medical establishment.  Both disorders have been chalked up to "bad genes".



Everyone faces exactly the same challenge in life, Tyler... know thyself.

I'm a big fan of meditation... of simply sitting still alone with myself... quietly watching inside and outside. There's a whole lot going on even when we're not doing anything! (lol)
 
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julian Gerona wrote:But why did they want it in the first place.



There is a disparity between what thoughts tell us we want... and what's best for us. Humans possess the unique quality to conscioiusly choose to act contrary to their thoughts. If everyone did everything thoughts told them... we would all be in jail or dead... or both. (lol)

 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

julian Gerona wrote:
the immune system is a complex system not just a single kind of cell.



What part of the immune system is boosted by these treatments and how does that cure the cancer?



Immune system is a whole system. While its dynamic and very flexible, it goes as a whole. Meaning if you upgrade one part then the whole system is upgraded. Just as a person who is depressed emotionally will also have his immune system suffer. You see it goes together as one. If you are looking for herbs for you or your husband then I am re mentioning to go for the blood and nerve cleanse and tonic first. The reason I have already mentioned more than ones. What gives birth to cancer is the toxic internal flora. Less oxygen and more garbage. Normal cells mutate in order to survive in this environment and become cancer cells. Therefore a clean and oxygenated environment will kill or reform them. When the blood is functioning properly it is able to deliver more oxygen and dump more garbage to the kidneys. Thus you get more oxygen and clean system which is not good for cancer cells.
If you want to try the herbs I recommend and cant find it there. I can send to you for free provided you pay for the shipping.
 
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julian Gerona wrote:Immune system is a whole system. While its dynamic and very flexible, it goes as a whole.



I agree with your assessment.
Symptoms can have many causes which are not necessarily restricted to the physical.
There can also be mental, emotional, and spiritual factors involved.
 
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