Violet Heart wrote:ohyeah and farmers making money do not spend time posting on the internet. Im only on here looking for labor.
Brandon Halsey wrote:Ellen you have a great point. No one wants to work more than 20 hours a week hard labor, much less 40. Those not willing will try, fail, complain, and make it that much more discouraging for those who really can make a go of it succeed.
Most of us are coming into this with another job to pay the start up bills, and then hope to one day make that leap into self sustainment. I am active duty army, work 50 hours a week (will retire in 2 years), and then get home and add an average of 3 hours of work a day on the farm we just purchased.
Labor of love and ideals at first.
Labor of love and income second.
I don't think there is any other way to do it, lottery winners and tycoon inheritances excepted.
Ellen Schwab wrote:No one is asking for 20 hours of HARD labor . . . .
Diego de la Vega wrote:Does anyone here make money? This is a very blunt question, but let me be more specific. Does anyone here make enough money on their agriculture (permaculture) sales to support themselves (pay bills, mortgage, clothing, electric, etc).
I know there are designers and consultants making money teaching people permaculture, selling books, etc. However, I have searched this board over and have not really found anyone who said that they themselves made enough income from their homesteading/farming operation to support themselves throughout the year. People mention Sepp Holzer, but no one seems to know how much he makes and his income is clearly supported by his book sales and tour fees.
I have read many of the things that Paul Wheaton has written, watched EVERY youtube video, and listened to some of his podcasts. I agree with him that to make this work you have to make money. Otherwise you become just another failed farmer without a farm.
I believe that farming is going to be one of the most important careers, and quite a lucrative as well, in the future. Food shortages are just one step away from where we are today. The prices at the grocery store are already out of control. Portion sizes have decreased significantly in an attempt to falsely keep prices from skyrocketing.
Can permaculture be the farming of the future? From all I have read and the production claims people have made you would thing the answer is yes. If all this is true why isn't anyone making any money? Is anyones net income from sales of food, medicinal plants, animals greater than $50,000? $100,000?
Why am I asking? I want to believe that permaculture can be as great as it sounds, but I have not seen any evidence that it has worked for more than possibly one man (Sepp Holzer). If the production is as great as people say, than we should be able to make a good living without the government subsidies that other farmers rely upon to survive.
I am a potential investor in permaculture. I make a significant annual income. I am not independently wealthy. I work very hard for every dollar I earn, but it is enough to easily support my family and a permaculture farm for some years while it is in it's infancy until it can start producing enough to become profitable. The question is if I did so, would I ever get my money back? Would I ever make any money. The problem that many permaculturists have is that they cannot get banks to loan them the money for a full scale piece of property. The answer to that is an investor/partner who is willing to take a financial risk for a potential reward. But is there a reward or just all risk? Are there more financially rewarding investments out there? Of course, but I want to support something I believe in. I want to support something that makes a difference. If i cannot retire till later, fine, as long as I can retire before I cannot work anymore.
Honestly, I was disappointed when I came to this board and failed to find evidence of financial success.
Maybe permaculture is great on a small scale to help individuals and families to be more independent and to eat better food. Maybe it cannot work on a larger scale. Please prove my impression wrong.
Amedean Messan wrote:With this said, yes, you can make a decent living. Because a "decent living" is relative, to describe the emotional constraint I would say that no, you will not afford the mega-yacht with permaculture. But to add, I will also say that yes, you can facilitate a life of fullness, balance and spiritual well being as well as provide a reasonable surplus (including economic) to you and your family. The rat race is yours to choose.....
Walter Jeffries wrote:The problem is your numbers are based on averages. Never strive to be average. Be extraordinary. Make choices that lift you up.
And as you know: People with a mission tend do make economically unreasonable decisions.
That is rather insulting.