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Lime rendering and insulation question

 
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Location: East of England
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Hi all,

We have just rebuilt some walls of our crumbling 17th century cottage* out of hempcrete. The next step is applying insulated lime render, and I was wondering if anyone here had experience specifically with three different brands of insulated lime render. This may or may not be very UK-centric, but any feedback from people all over the world would be welcomed!

I have the insulation values here which obviously gives us one set of criteria to judge, but wondering if anyone else has any wisdom to share. The render will be applied over the hempcrete as well as clay lump.
The three different options we have been recommended are:

- Jordaya Contracting's Diathonite Evolution (with an insulation value of 0.045 w/mk)
- Anglia Lime's Thermalime (with an insulation value of 0.137 w/mk)
- Best of Lime's Warmcote (with an insulation value of 0.140 w/mk)

Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to give advice!

*Unfortunately on our moving in we discovered that it had suffered from maybe 50+ years of mistreatment, involving lots of concrete, cement render etc. which had trapped so much moisture that the timber frame was rotting.
 
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" but wondering if anyone else has any wisdom to share. The render will be applied over the hempcrete as well as clay lump."

Your foot note leads me to think you have repaired all rot and damage. If not sure double check and takes lots of photos. So you can recall where everything is later.

I'm not sure I follow the question. But this Is the most enlighten process I've seen using low cost inputs. DustCrete ( SawDust, Lime, Cement) then covered with Lime Plaster.  Tons of tips, hints, & notes in the Lime Plaster post and comments below video.  I would post a youtube video of what you have done.  Make a 2nd video asking for advice on the process from others while doing a small area maybe in barn or out building.  I think you'll find lots of people have ideas that will help you.  

Lime Plaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVBlKoHg0k

Dustcrete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyirHL9TvGE&t=543s  
 
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Hi Al,
I don't have any direct experience with hempcrete, but from the videos I have watched, it seems like the hempcrete itself provides a decent amount of insulation? The videos I have seen did not mention the need for an insulated lime finish, just a weather proof lime finish.

I'm int he US and I'm not sure the conversions on US vs UK insulation measurements, but in general, I would get the best you can possibly afford. Insulation will pay for itself over time.
 
Rocket Scientist
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there is a product made from lime with crumbed cork ,used as an insulating plaster , have not used it only seen it after it was applied , it can have a fairly smooth finish and some insulating value is quoted for it, was used on interior rough stone faced wall  , but should easily bond to and be used on a hempcrete wall as well
 
G C Childers
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He is directly talking about Hemp and natural fibers in concrete / lime here.. I'm trying to understand it.

Convo On YT

Aaron Franklin
Bollocks. You cannot use Portland cement or any Calcium Oxide or hydroxide based systems with sawdust or natural fibres or glass fibres if you want ANY strength or water resistance  
You need a Magnesium oxide system. The high alkalinity depolymerises cellulose and lignins and eats glass.
MgO activated with MgCl2 or MgSO4 is compatible with timber and natural or glass fibres.
Activated with fumed silica is more water resistant. Activated with potassium, sodium or ammonium Phosphate is strongest and most seawater resistant.
You can use dolomite lime as a filler but not if it's calcined to CaO and MgO.
That stuff will not last or have any strength. Like hempcrete made with Ca0 it's only suitable for drywall insulation.
Seawater is 6% Magnesium dry salt weight.
Roman concrete is doleritic Volcanic ash  calcined at low temp to fumed silica, and high Magnesium oxide and iron oxides relative to calcium content. And activated with seawater for the extra Magnesium and sodium and chloride to activate and provide charge balancing captions. And bone ash as phosphate source.

the caustic alkalinity of Portland cement due to CaOH cleaves ester bonds in the natural fibres and attacks glass.
Also the moisture content changes cause swelling and shrinkage in both Portland concretes and especially sawdust.
Just with temperature and humidity changes.
MgO systems are less porous, have far greater elasticity, not brittle. Don't swell and shrink much at all.
So in addition to adhering,   are better in every way.
Including not turning all the oils in your skin into soap and dissolving  your skin like Portland or CaOH slaked lime.

yeah Magnesium oxide you can buy from rural fertiliser shop.
You can get Magnesium chloride there too.
And Epsom salts which is Magnesium sulphate.
Either the sulphate or chloride work similarly well at 10-50% by weight.
You'll have to test the range of mix ratios to give best results. There is very high water of crystalisation in some of these.
And your fillers like sawdust, clay, sand etc can be reactive and change ratios a little.
Yes you can use any standard Portland cement type rebar etc. But any fibreglass or whatever for Portland will be embedded in waterproof snot or plastic coated to stop the cement dissolving it.
Plasticiser, probably. But you probably won't need it.
Portland formulations usually use some plaster of Paris to make them appear to have set in the first few hours.
And then gradually ACTUALLY set over weeks to years.
So your losing pourability, aggregate fill ratio.... and workability by immediate sticking together of bits of aggregate with Calcium sulphate- plaster of Paris blobs, and skins, with not ultimate strength or water resistance.
particularly if they are dry bits and sucking in the water.
This is helpful with MgO cements like Chloride or Sulphate activated Sorel.
There's Sorell and Sorel. Different chemists different centuries, one used Zinc, the other Magnesium.
For the rapid set Super strong, ultrachemical resistant chemically bonded Phosphate ceramics of Magnesium, Aluminium, Silica, Iron etc.
Those are supermaterials that can handle highly corrosive high, strength, cryogenic to up to 2800 degree temps.
Are also cheaper than woodchips.
Like mixing some phosphoric acid or phosphate fertiliser with your Magnesium, or calcium or Silicon or zinc or titanium or  Aluminium or iron oxides.
To produce anything from a one coat ceramic impervious and indestructible coating on rusty or clean steelwork for military Naval applications.  To rocket exhausts, jet turbines or Formula 1 disk brakes.
Gets stronger with aging, including repeat ground or seawater or chemical soaking and roasting dry....
 
Al William
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Thanks for all the comments everybody. Ironically I've been so busy working on the house that I've hardly been online.

We've built one of the hempcrete walls, should be doing the other in July. After that each will be insulated with an insulating lime render (as well as the hempcrete itself of course.)

It's amazing what you find, though, taking apart an old house. Many doors and windows have been put in and taken out in 400 years, an old bread oven we didn't realise was sitting in the wall, and some disastrous choices of materials!
I could try and take some pictures if people would be interested.
 
Matt McSpadden
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Pictures would be great!
 
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