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Cherries

 
Jennifer Smith
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Location: Zone 5
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Ok I also plan two cherry trees, one will be Rainier but am unsure of the other probably Bing.  A dark sweet cherry is my pick, but not sure which one. 

Same questions as grapes, what do they like and who do I buy them from?
 
Leah Sattler
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I would buy local if you can find them. a good local nursery should carry varieties that have a chance at doing well in your area. grapes tend to like it rocky and dryish. don't pick a spot that is soggy.
 
Brenda Groth
pollinator
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Location: North Central Michigan
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i bought 4 cherry trees last fall..two died and two lived..

the sweet cherries lived and grew well and i expect a small crop next year..the sours ..which are hardier..died..when i dug the trees up to return them to the store..there was NO ROOT on them..they were potted trees.

my  suggestion would be Starks Bros mail order trees..they always seem to live and grow well for me
 
                              
Posts: 262
Location: Coast Range, Oregon--the New Magic Land
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what about sprouts from pits under cherry trees? are those any good?
 
Joel Hollingsworth
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Location: Oakland, CA
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They won't be true to their parents' flavor, but they may well be good rootstock to graft onto (cf. Brenda's experience), especially if you choose ones that are growing well in the conditions you can provide.

As for grapes, there may be local sources of scion.  Here in the bay area, there is a yearly scion exchange.  Maybe there's one near you, too?

http://novellacarpenter.com/2009/01/16/the-scion-exchange-is-coming-the-scion-exchange/
 
Jennifer Smith
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Location: Zone 5
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One Green World has Rainier Cherries, as does Nature Hills... has anyone used either of them before?  I believe cherries are Fall planted...is this right? 
 
Leah Sattler
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most trees do better if they are fall planted. they have a bit of time to establish roots before being expected to put energy into foliage then. you can plant trees in the spring but they might take a bit more care.
 
Brenda Groth
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Location: North Central Michigan
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i don't think i'd do cherries from pits..but i guess it might work out ok..just like apples from seed..who knows..you couild give it a try.
 
Brenda Groth
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Location: North Central Michigan
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here are some bits of information from my notes on planting cherries.

sour are more hardy than sweet, they are best planted on a slope and require good drainage, they take about 3 to 5 years to bear and only sour are self fertile. Mulch thickly ..6"..and feed with nitrogen fertilizers, esp manure, cottonseed meal and bloodmeal. Prune to a central leader, use BT if you need to control worms in spring. Cherries are a trap crop for tent worms and gypsy moth worms. They require good water. Net your cherries from birds and allow to hang for 2 to 3 extra weeks to sweeten them up .
 
Jennifer Smith
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Location: Zone 5
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I ordered my trees today, 2 cherry and a hardy fig from http://www.naturehills.com/product/desert_king_fig.aspx

So on to the  details of planting them.  I plan to make a trip to the creek for some river rock to mud together around my planting holes.  How little can we get away with here? 

How deep should I dig and how high should I stack?  How far apart to ensure good polination? 

I hear they like manure, which I have plenty of ... but I also hear to put the same stuff on as the surrounding area has....so just manure above ground level?  At what ratio do I mix horse manure and existing soil?
 
Brenda Groth
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Location: North Central Michigan
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well spacing depends on if you are growing dwarf, semi dwarf or full size trees, look for the info on the trees you bought and see how large they are said to be getting..and then space them a little farther apart than their adult tops will get..so that you can get between them, esp if they are dwarf or semi dwarf..as you need room to pick them..full size trees still tend to have some lower lying branches so i  would space them at least 20 feet apart if you are able to. I have my sweets on the top of a north slope and in the sun but also somewhat prrotected from wind..the north slope will protect them somewhat from frosts as it will warm later in the spring and cold air will drain away along the slope.

as for manure..if you are planting your trees in the fall do not add any fertilizer at all, you will get early new growth and it will be tender to frosts..wait until spring to side dress them with manure.

you don't want your tree leafing out in the fall...if it is dormant...or putting on new growth in the fall.

lots of trees like rubble around them..i guess the river rocks would work out fine i tend to work with rubble such as bits of broken bricks or smaller pieces of rubble or even gravel..i wouldn't pile a lot of it on top of the ground..but a small amount..if you are in an area where you can get limestone, granite or other stone dusts that would be excellent to mix into the soil.

remember to wrap the trunks of yhour trees loosely with some kind of protection against mice and rabbits..you  can use boughten tree guards or things like tar paper, plastic, or carefully you can user wire that will keep them out such as hardware cloth or if mice aren't a problem rabbit or chicken fencing ..keep it back from the trunk a few inches...and if you have deep snow bring it up above the snow level far enough so rabbits can't get over the top.
 
Leah Sattler
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I have always heard that one of the worst things you can do for a new tree is to feed it a bunch of composted manure. I think I remember our local gardening guy talk show host say most people kill their new trees with kindness. I think the logic behind it is that it needs to put down deep spreading roots to get nutrients and if you feed it too much you will discourage it from reaching out. short term looks good but then your tree doesn't have a well developed root system to get it through the hard times or support its upper weight.


"Placing too many goodies in the hole, such as manure or compost, can create an environment that the tree roots never venture out of."

http://www.sandybarnursery.com/care-of-bareroot-trees.htm
 
Jennifer Smith
Posts: 714
Location: Zone 5
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Great, native soild and crushed rock it is!!  I can hardly wait till my trees get here...but need to get ready asap.  I am sooooo excited.  Thank you all for being there with advise and encouragement.
 
Patrick Thornson
Posts: 147
Location: Zone Five, B.C., Western Canada.
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I saw a video on youtube about sepp holzer's Krameterhof. He has cherries growing there and he said he has a steady production of cherries from late June to mid August.

My question- Did anyone see Sepp when he was in the States recently. What does he grow in the way of cherries? Which varieties? How does he start them?
 
M.K. Dorje
Posts: 153
Location: Orgyen
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Although I have never seen sepp holzer in person, I do have "sepp holzer's Permaculture", which lists seven different Wild and Sour Cherries- all are German/ Austrian varieties that as far as I know are not available in North America, except for Morello- which is a late season tart/pie cherry from England but available in the US and probably Canada. This variety is really good for pies, juices and wines. Sepp's main technique is to sow the seeds and then just graft his favorite varieties onto the the rootstocks. "It is particularly important to investigate the different local varieties that grow in your area..." Lapins, Van, Stella, Sonata and Skeena are all Canadian varieties from the Summerland Breeding Program in British Columbia. They have some newer ones, too.
 
Patrick Thornson
Posts: 147
Location: Zone Five, B.C., Western Canada.
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Thank you for your reply, MK.

This is good info. I'm just doing preliminary research on the seeds, germination techniques, how to plant them , etc. I have nice Rainier seeds and I'll look into others that grow well in this zone.

BTW, I've been to the Summerland Research Centre. It's a great spot and a self-guided tour of the non-research gardens is a wonderful way to spend the day in the South Okanagan.

The Summerland Research Centre (Gov. of Canada) is getting some well-deserved negative press/buzz. They have made Canada's first GMO apple there. I'm against it, of course. I've entered my opinion via a Gov. website and gave my reasons for not wanting it approved (in Canada or elsewhere.)
It's a GMO non-browning apple.
 
M.K. Dorje
Posts: 153
Location: Orgyen
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Patrick, thank you for the info. I had no idea that Summerland was involved in Genetic Engineering, which is something I really abhor!! I'm very sorry to hear your country has the awful problem of GMOs- I'm deeply opposed to this stuff and hope we can stop it soon. I did not even know about GE fruit trees- that really sucks!!
 
Patrick Thornson
Posts: 147
Location: Zone Five, B.C., Western Canada.
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MK. I hope more Canadians (and others) voice their opposition to it.
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