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Help wet bottomed chicken

 
Nechda Chekanov
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Location: Zone 7a
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I have a RIR. Not sure how old she is... I bought her from someone who didn't know how old she was, but she was already laying when I got her and I've had her for nine months. i would say at least two years old.

She has a wet botto m. Does it smell? Sure, poo doesn't smell good! She seems to have always had this and yet the rest of the flock doesn't. It seems worse today, which normally it seemed just a dribble, today it's downright wet and nasty.

They are in a movable paddock, always have access to fresh grass, dirt etc. they are in pine shaving and ash with a deep litter method but only at night.

Otherwise her feathers are healthy and shiney... Which hasn't always been the case, she was in rough shape withi got her from over mating.

I had thought was perhaps had a minor vent prolapse... It does stick out some, always has since I've had her.... I have gone through periods of fermenting feed, didn't help also I try to add acv to their water often, but don't everyday. This hasn't seemed to help.

Honestly. She grosses me out! I don't like having a chicken who doesn't look healthy in with the flock.
Any advice for me? Backyardchickens was of no help on this one...
 
Austin Max
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Location: South Central Kentucky
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Hmm that is interesting, I have the exact same situation. I have a mixed flock of about 5 different breeds, and I have a few Rhodies I adopted from someone who didn't want them anymore. They are 2-3 years old, just finished molting. They constantly have poopy butts and are the only birds in the flock that have it. But like you said they look shiny and healthy minus the skid marks. I'm waiting to see how these girls lay, but my advice is that if they don't meet your standards for whatever reason, the stock pot awaits. 9 months would have been plenty of time to transition to your different feed/schedule/conditions. Theres no reason to keep birds around that have problems that none of the others in the flock have.
 
John Polk
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Too much greens can do that to some hens. Are you also feeding some cereals?
If not, try cereals for a few days, and see if it gets any better.

 
wayne stephen
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I have had two barred rocks with the same issue . I had just started raising chickens and bought birds from varied sources. These birds also had a respiratory condition that cleared up quickly. However in that time period I had birds dropping dead. I don't know why , may not have been connected to bringing in sickness. Now , I do not hesitate to cull a bird looking sick. My flock is much healthier and I am more careful about my sources. It may be worth looking into "Pasty Butt" disease. It affects chicks but may have lingering effects into adulthood.
 
Ollie Puddlemaker
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Location: Houston, Tesas
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Since, this is not a new chick, I thought, 'pasty butt' was a lack in 'gut bacteria'...so, you'd want to be feeding ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in their water, some yogurt or Kefir in their scratch mix or better yet, feed fermented grains.
 
Nechda Chekanov
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Location: Zone 7a
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Ollie Puddlemaker wrote:
Since, this is not a new chick, I thought, 'pasty butt' was a lack in 'gut bacteria'...so, you'd want to be feeding ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in their water, some yogurt or Kefir in their scratch mix or better yet, feed fermented grains.

Yep, ive been adding the acv. I need to get back on the fermenting wagon... Will do that this week.
 
Ollie Puddlemaker
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Nechda Chekanov wrote:
Ollie Puddlemaker wrote:
Since, this is not a new chick, I thought, 'pasty butt' was a lack in 'gut bacteria'...so, you'd want to be feeding ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in their water, some yogurt or Kefir in their scratch mix or better yet, feed fermented grains.

Yep, ive been adding the acv. I need to get back on the fermenting wagon... Will do that this week.


I understood, that you had been doing the fermented feed and ACV, but not regular, maybe just 'hit or miss' was not enough, at least for this bird. Maybe her immunity and/or digestion is different from the others in the flock. Whatever the reason, better nutrition thru fermentation and inoculating the gut is key to her having the strength to correct and overcome the problem.
 
Nechda Chekanov
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Location: Zone 7a
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Ollie Puddlemaker wrote:
Nechda Chekanov wrote:
Ollie Puddlemaker wrote:
Since, this is not a new chick, I thought, 'pasty butt' was a lack in 'gut bacteria'...so, you'd want to be feeding ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in their water, some yogurt or Kefir in their scratch mix or better yet, feed fermented grains.

Yep, ive been adding the acv. I need to get back on the fermenting wagon... Will do that this week.


I understood, that you had been doing the fermented feed and ACV, but not regular, maybe just 'hit or miss' was not enough, at least for this bird. Maybe her immunity and/or digestion is different from the others in the flock. Whatever the reason, better nutrition thru fermentation and inoculating the gut is key to her having the strength to correct and overcome the problem.

Yep, I need to be more consistent. Thanks for the reminder!
 
Jay Green
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I'm thinking gleet. I "inherited" a bird of indeterminate age that had this same problem....shiny, healthy, fattest bird I have ever processed in my life~ever~and that's saying a lot from someone who has processed hundreds of birds over the years. But, she had a fungal infection that just would not heal up...even with fermented feeds, mother ACV, antifungals applied to the vent and into the intestine.

She also had a very prolapsed looking vent that wasn't actually prolapsed...just swollen from this ongoing infection. My bird also had a poor conformation that contributed to her loose vent structure and this may be something you can see as well if you look closely at your birds. If you looked at her vent from head on, her upper "lip" jutted well over the bottom lip~more than I've ever seen on a chicken in my life and I've seen a heck of a lot of butts. I'm thinking the hatcheries are letting this trait carry on in their gene pools without any thought to what it does to the chicken in the long run. Maybe these chickens with this structure are just more prone to contract fungal infections due to the inability to pinch off a loaf properly....not sure.

Anyone wish to see this bird's conformation up close and personal to see if any of their birds look like this? I have pics of the gleet mess~and yes, it smells different than just chicken poop...sort of a coppery smell, almost rotten. And I have pics of the vent itself....real good pics. I also have pics of the bird's conformation and her carcass if anyone wants to see the pics. I warn you..they are not for the faint of heart.

Oh..BTW, I suggest you cull her instead of keeping a bird with a potentially transmittable pathogen wander around in the flock. When in doubt, always lean towards the side of culling...you won't regret it, but often do regret NOT culling in time to save the bird and other birds in flock. Culling is the single strongest tool one has for a sustainable poultry plan, bar none.

Here's a pic of the butt, with some feathers that had been trimmed to help me cleanse and visualize this problem around the vent~this angle is taken as the hen is lying on her back...if you all are interested I'll show you this vent when cleaned and the bird as she is standing, broad view.

 
Nechda Chekanov
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Location: Zone 7a
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Jay Green wrote:I'm thinking gleet. I "inherited" a bird of indeterminate age that had this same problem....shiny, healthy, fattest bird I have ever processed in my life~ever~and that's saying a lot from someone who has processed hundreds of birds over the years. But, she had a fungal infection that just would not heal up...even with fermented feeds, mother ACV, antifungals applied to the vent and into the intestine.

She also had a very prolapsed looking vent that wasn't actually prolapsed...just swollen from this ongoing infection. My bird also had a poor conformation that contributed to her loose vent structure and this may be something you can see as well if you look closely at your birds. If you looked at her vent from head on, her upper "lip" jutted well over the bottom lip~more than I've ever seen on a chicken in my life and I've seen a heck of a lot of butts. I'm thinking the hatcheries are letting this trait carry on in their gene pools without any thought to what it does to the chicken in the long run. Maybe these chickens with this structure are just more prone to contract fungal infections due to the inability to pinch off a loaf properly....not sure.

Anyone wish to see this bird's conformation up close and personal to see if any of their birds look like this? I have pics of the gleet mess~and yes, it smells different than just chicken poop...sort of a coppery smell, almost rotten. And I have pics of the vent itself....real good pics. I also have pics of the bird's conformation and her carcass if anyone wants to see the pics. I warn you..they are not for the faint of heart.

Oh..BTW, I suggest you cull her instead of keeping a bird with a potentially transmittable pathogen wander around in the flock. When in doubt, always lean towards the side of culling...you won't regret it, but often do regret NOT culling in time to save the bird and other birds in flock. Culling is the single strongest tool one has for a sustainable poultry plan, bar none.


while i appreciate everyones input, this may be the single most helpful answer so far because it describes her to a T.
in fact, she does have this jutting out... and yes, i would like to see all your pictures.
i would also like to know if
you ate her...

i have another who got bit on the head and i'm trying to manage an infection, wondering if i should just cull her too. she is the same age and possibly towards the end of her laying. she lays massive double yolkers, but i noticed that her shell is thinning- didn't even make it out of the box yesterday... too thin, it broke and she ate it. no one else in the flock has thin shells, in fact they are very very strong.

i'm thinking they are great stewing hens and i might just go ahead and get it over with...
but wonder about eating miss nasty butt...
?



 
Jay Green
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I had reservations about that too....I didn't eat her eggs at all. But, I theorized that the fungal infection was probably not systemic but may be isolated to just the digestive tract(where these protozoa could thrive) and maybe also her reproductive tract because it was so adjacent. So...I ate her after a really good hot soak in the crockpot jacuzzi. Good eatin' and I haven't started running at the butt yet, so the heat must have killed the germs.

Here's a sequence of pics to explain this bird's conformation difficulties and then pics of just how rolling with fat this bird was, so it hadn't affected her glossiness, her conditioning or her laying:

This is the same angle on the vent with the area cleansed~remember this bird is lying on her back, so that loose and large edge of the vent is on the upper side when she is upright:



This one is a little funnier...we call this one "Mad Vent" and the first one "Happy Vent"....but it shows just how much the vent is out of line. The pic after this one will give an idea at this bird's problem..her tail is at the wrong angle and she has this hump of fat(about 1/2 in. thick) on her back. Very weird bird.



You can see her stance is off and her tail head overshoots her hindquarters a good bit.



This is what she looked like when I got her...no tail feathers and in the middle of molting. This bird and all the others were in horrible shape and others had evidence of gleet also, but she was the only one that didn't recover.



And pics of the fattest bird I've ever processed...even CX birds. This bird had fat where birds normally do not, like along the back of the neck..weird.





Here's with a cutaway of the back fat...most birds have a small cushion of fat in this area, this bird wins the trophy!



And the fat in front of the thighs and on the breasts under the wings....very unusual to find fat deposits of this magnitude on a chicken.

 
Nechda Chekanov
Posts: 65
Location: Zone 7a
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Jay Green wrote:I had reservations about that too....I didn't eat her eggs at all. But, I theorized that the fungal infection was probably not systemic but may be isolated to just the digestive tract(where these protozoa could thrive) and maybe also her reproductive tract because it was so adjacent. So...I ate her after a really good hot soak in the crockpot jacuzzi. Good eatin' and I haven't started running at the butt yet, so the heat must have killed the germs.

Here's a sequence of pics to explain this bird's conformation difficulties and then pics of just how rolling with fat this bird was, so it hadn't affected her glossiness, her conditioning or her laying:

This is the same angle on the vent with the area cleansed~remember this bird is lying on her back, so that loose and large edge of the vent is on the upper side when she is upright:



This one is a little funnier...we call this one "Mad Vent" and the first one "Happy Vent"....but it shows just how much the vent is out of line. The pic after this one will give an idea at this bird's problem..her tail is at the wrong angle and she has this hump of fat(about 1/2 in. thick) on her back. Very weird bird.



You can see her stance is off and her tail head overshoots her hindquarters a good bit.



This is what she looked like when I got her...no tail feathers and in the middle of molting. This bird and all the others were in horrible shape and others had evidence of gleet also, but she was the only one that didn't recover.



And pics of the fattest bird I've ever processed...even CX birds. This bird had fat where birds normally do not, like along the back of the neck..weird.





Here's with a cutaway of the back fat...most birds have a small cushion of fat in this area, this bird wins the trophy!



And the fat in front of the thighs and on the breasts under the wings....very unusual to find fat deposits of this magnitude on a chicken.


Wow. Ms Fatty Feather Bottom!!!
So, we do eat her eggs... But always fully cooked.
Maybe we shouldn't?
I think I'll process tomorrow. I shouldnt have to sustain an animal that isn't working for us.
Thanks for the photos. Her bum is even angrier and more pouty than
yours!
 
Jay Green
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Probably the best choice...I know this bird couldn't have been comfortable with the ulcerated areas in the corners of the vent getting cracked open each time she laid an egg. Best to just give her mercy and also keep her genetics out of the pool. Good eatin' too!
 
Jay Green
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i have another who got bit on the head and i'm trying to manage an infection, wondering if i should just cull her too. she is the same age and possibly towards the end of her laying. she lays massive double yolkers, but i noticed that her shell is thinning- didn't even make it out of the box yesterday... too thin, it broke and she ate it. no one else in the flock has thin shells, in fact they are very very strong.


I'm thinking this is a good call on your part as well. I've found that when they start to lay doubles they are starting to misfire on their ovulation and it won't be long until they are not laying at all or just only sporadically. I agree with your assessment of this cull candidate. Might as well do all the culls at one time while you have your processing tools out and have the dirty job to do.
 
alex Keenan
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I can appreciate your solution. After breeding poultry in single flocks for over a decade we very early came to the conclusion that a sick bird is a dead bird.
We started with alot of "Good Lines" only to find tons of genitic defects and health problems. In the long run the only solution was to cull hard and do the best at mixed breeding the remaining ones.
There were over 15 lines to start and I would say 80 percent cull rates the first five years.
Now we have few defects and little illness since we have built up resistance to local stuff in the birds now.
Unless you go several generations you never know what is hiding in the background of a bird.
Once you have a working line you are VERY careful about adding any new blood.
I keep them banded and isolated from breeding flock for at least three generations.

 
Ollie Puddlemaker
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Nechda - I understand, that you've probabley culled your hen. I was just reading this poultry raiser's experience and maybe you could have tried this as she had/has done....


The Epsom Salt Cure
Buffy was given to me five years ago. She was in a flock that was ruled by a killer hen. Each day that hen pecked another hen to death. She targeted the head. Buffy was next in line. She came here with a bald spot near her comb. It’s still there. Obviously, Buffy was under stress. I wasn’t surprised to note a messy vent runny with diarrhea. Fear can give the runs to anyone, even a chicken. In the years that I’ve had this peaceful chicken, that diarrhea comes and goes. Stress can cause real disease. My best guess is that it’s a yeast infection, possibly “vent gleet” or related to it.

It’s stinky. It freezes when the temperatures plummet. At the least it’s uncomfortable for Buffy. At the worst it’s a symptom of a problem that needs to be remedied. Yeast is something that is very hard to get rid of. Managing it and minimizing the outbreak is the goal.
Like so much of chicken care, there’s only a few items in the medicine kit, but they work on a multitude of issues. That’s good, because diagnosing illness really is a matter of “best guess.” In this case, I use Epsom salts.

Epsom salt is a naturally occurring mineral, a combination of magnesium and sulfate. It’s soothing on the skin, and so is the choice for soaking baths if a hen has a dermatological issue. Epsom salt is also used internally. It detoxifies toxins, so if your hen has ingested a dangerous plant, or consumed botulism, or gotten into a poison, an Epsom salt drench is the cure. It acts as a laxative, so if your hen’s system needs flushing, or if her crop is impacted or the digestive process seems blocked, this will gently move things along. It also controls yeast infections. It’s a general cure-all, so if you’re faced with a hen that seems weak in the legs, has a sudden loss of vigor, seems sick without having respiratory symptoms, Epsom salt might help. It can’t hurt.

Over the last week I’ve noticed Buffy’s vent looking messier and messier; otherwise she’s behaving normally. It’s time for an Epsom salt drench.

If, for some reason, you want to treat the entire flock, you can put Epsom salt in their drinking water – use 1 teaspoon per cup. Leave it out for one day. (This isn’t something to feed on a regular basis.) But, since I only want to douse Buffy, I dilute 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt in 1 ounce of lukewarm water. I have a syringe at hand. (This is a plastic syringe available at your local pharmacy.)

Hold the hen so that she is comfortable and her wings are kept at her side. Open the beak with one hand and squirt the liquid in her throat, a little bit at a time so that she can swallow. Don’t shoot it down her open gullet at full-force, or it could get into her lungs. Let her close her beak and swallow. Repeat. If some dribbles out, don’t worry. Wear clothes you don’t care about – she’s bound to shake her head and spray you. Besides, the reason you’re treating the hen is because of that stinky butt…

Dose her with most of the Epsom salt mixture. Repeat again in about twelve hours or the following day. That’s it! If your hen is seriously ill, douse two more times. But, if that dosage doesn’t improve things, more won’t be the answer.

I’ve used Epsom salt, now and then, for Buffy’s messy vent. It always makes it better. I also used it when she mysteriously became paralyzed. That recovery took months, but recover she did. I believe that she got into a toxic plant and the Epsom salt is what saved her.
 
Jay Green
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I used the epsom salts on the above pictured bird but it never really made an impact. Problem being that when it looked as if it would clear up a little(and that's the best it could do...a little improvement), it would recur. Unless I wanted to doctor this bird on a continuous basis, which doesn't make sense at all, then I found the epsom salts to be ineffective~and apparently so did the bird mentioned in the above story. It keeps coming back.

Some birds, like some people, do not have the immune system to fight off infection(yeast infections are very difficult to lose) and will have recurring difficulties from it all. I've found, over the years, that the cull is the final solution to an ongoing problem with these animals. The rest of the flock that had gleet symptoms, upon receiving treatment, healed up and didn't have any recurrence...but this one hen did.

My rule of thumb for a sustainable flock has been~if the rest of the flock thrive on your husbandry methods and just one does not, it is not the husbandry methods that need tweeking~it's the bird that needs to be removed from the equation.
 
Ollie Puddlemaker
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I agree with you totally, sometimes 'things' are just too far out of balance to save...this can be said about many subjects. Nature doesn't waste a lot of time or effort in many situations, it often just 'cuts to the chase' and it's over...
 
I agree. Here's the link: https://richsoil.com/wood-heat.jsp
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