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Freelance gardening

 
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Hi.

As it happens, I am considering a job change. I don't want to leave the city, and I would appreciate more contact with plants. So I am wondering if I could make a life as a freelance gardener. What skills and tools I may need, and how much I should earn to make up for the costs. I think the freelance fee is around 350€/month, but other costs I have no idea.

Also, do you know if we can be a permaculturist gardener for sale? Or are they condemned to mow lawns forever?
 
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I'd say that mowing lawns will pay your bills while you figure out what else you can get people to pay for, and where to find people who will pay.

Personally, I'd say if you have space to do so, or can find space to do so, start making serious compost piles, from things you are paid to remove, and offer adding compost as a paying thing.

That's where I'd start, and see what else your area will pay for.
 
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Abraham Palma wrote: I think the freelance fee is around 350€/month, but other costs I have no idea.


Woah! what's that fee for? You have to earn €4000 a year just to cover that!

Thinking about additional costs:
Insurance
Tools
Travel
Advertising

Also allow for time you're not earning (holidays, retirement, sick fund)

I like Pearl's suggestion of compost making, I'm sure there are other ways of making extra: from harvests of unwanted fruit for example.
 
Abraham Palma
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That's what we have to pay as taxes for being freelance. It does include medical services but no unemployment savings.

I considered the van cost, but forgot about the insurance.
 
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That’s an Insane cost to be self employed. Never heard of such a thing before. They try to control everyone over there. I would lose the words “freelance” & start thinking out of the box. Where I am most of the self employed people work for cash only & word of mouth. Certainly on their own terms & not the governments. The word free in front of lance suggests low to no cost. So don’t like that word.  I would work word of mouth until you’ve got enough regular cash flow to cover all your bills & can well afford to register a business.  I would also look at the tax advantages of both wAys of doing business to see which best benefits you.
 
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Back when I worked in a downtown office building a long, long time ago, there were people who supplied the lobby plant decor and maintenance to take care of the plants.

Whether this was a company or freelance I have no idea.

There might be a lot of ideas that might help you get on your feet as a freelance gardener.

 
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Hi,

I'm also considering a job change and I've put some serious thought into "freelance gardening" as a paying gig so this post got my attention.

For much of 2020 I was unemployed and bored so I posted on NextDoor offering to do casual gardening and yardwork for folks. Planting flower bulbs, raking leaves and weeding flower beds for folks for not-very-much an hour. I could have charged more. Wasn't ever a serious operation as I was on unemployment so earning enough to support myself wasn't really the point. I don't think I'd do that again, at least not the leaf-raking jobs.

I've been fortunate enough in late 2020 I was able to land a job which allowed me to purchase a small home on 1 acre of land on the outskirts of my town. Also allowed me to purchase some equipment and indulge in the habit of permaculture gardening. Specifically, I got a Grillo walk-behind tractor and some implements, primarily to use for myself to develop my own gardening/small-scale-ag projects. About a year and a half ago I did actually load the tractor and some implements into the bed of my pickup truck, hauled them out to a customer's property and plowed up a maybe 3,000 or 4,000 sqft garden plot. Grossed slightly more than $200 for half a day's work. Did the same as a favor to a friend who was trying to establish a wildflower meadow over his septic drainfield, didn't charge him. I see the particular equipment I already had as a somewhat unique offering that fills a niche in the market, i.e. it's suitable for a particular scale of project that other businesses don't serve well. For instance, a landowner may want to hire out plowing and seeding 1000 sqft for a garden or meadow. The established landscaping firms might have a minimum price of let's say $3000 for any reseeding job, perhaps they wouldn't take it at all. I.e. they want enough of a project they can haul their equipment out and have a full day's work for 2 workers. In that situation someone like me could come in and do that project for significantly less.

More perspective - my partner over the summer worked for a small landscaping design+build firm. They specialize in residential ornamental plantings, typically native plants, as well as regular maintenance (weeding and mulching). And do some small scale grading projects. So not an army of guys with string trimmers and zero-turn mowers, they don't do 'lawn care'. But it's still low wage work, the owners of that business don't make a lot.
The town is fairly progressive and hosts a large university so it's sort of an island of blue in a sea of red. If you catch my drift. So I think the local residential landscaping market is more receptive of permaculturey styles than the surrounding region. Even so there's a lot of the typical overengineered American lawns and the industry that pushes and supports them, moreso the further away you go. So if I wanted to earn a buck mowing lawns, I definitely could, but I'm just not interested in that. The more interesting work, with a higher skill/knowledge floor, is still relatively niche so I have my doubts there would be enough demand there to support a full-time income.

Anyway, my advice to you would be to have an idea of what people are willing to pay for vs. doing it themselves and work to identify a niche in the market that you think you can fill better than the existing competition. For myself this started when I tried to hire out a plowing project to start my garden and couldn't find anyone that could do what I was asking for (that's why I bought the Grillo). So I reason there must be other people like me out there. Of course I must acknowledge I'm fairly unusual so must be realistic about this.
 
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Hmm. New guy here.

I live in NYC and here,,, all things ecological, earth friendly, healthy and all that jazz is alllll the rage. I hate to say this but it's MORE of a trend, hip, in style and and and than a core and serious set of beliefs and values people hold. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I kinda see it.

With that, at least in NYC, from an economic standpoint many are making more money than the average NYC Joe or Jane ever had, per capita. The money in this city for those that have it is actually pretty insane IMHO. Anywho.

I don't know where you are but if you were here you could easily pull this together just using Craigslist or something. It's how you "sell" it. What ideas you tap into.

Then, charge 125$ per visit and explain, sell, the idea that you need at least two full visits a month plus one half priced (60$) visit just to keep an eye on things. I would BET on recommendations. More, I would bet the freelance gig would stretch out into areas (pretty quickly) that you may not have foreseen or imagined. Cities are just kinda like that, depending on the city.

Get 7, 8 regulars and you'd be ok. Maybe. Have days where you visit 2 customers per day.

The 350$ tax is CHEAP for peace of mind, getting people to see the value in gardening, doing the right thing, and and and.

I say GO FOR IT. Depending on the city and the potential for clients, that is. Which city?

I think the FREE in freelance stands for something else, lol. It doesn't necessarily mean cheap.

I wish you the best.
 
Abraham Palma
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Thank you for all your answers.
And welcome to you, Eli.

As you can see, I live in Malaga, Spain. Here, all workers have to pay the Social Security fee, which includes medical services, retirement funds and an unemployment insurance. In the case of freelancers, the fee is quite low, and it includes also revenue taxes, but it does not include the unemployment insurance. Anyways, this means that any freelancer in Spain has to earn 350€ a month more for the fee. Well, I could legally work without paying the fee if I earned less than 200€ a year. Or I could work illegally, but it would be hard to sleep.

Yes, we have some webpages like Craiglist. Milanuncios is the most popular here, but there are others. That's the usual way for freelance handymen to advertise.

I don't know very well the market, but I'd bet that there are no permaculture gardeners for sale in my region. There are permaculture farmers that work in their own projects, and sell their produce, there are permaculture designers and teachers that make a life out of courses, but I don't know about gardeners maintaining other people's gardens in a regenerative way. Maybe there's no market for it, maybe there's a niche.

Jason, I live at one hour from Marbella. This small city is filled with millionaires living in McMansions, and quite a few are russian oligarcs. There's money there, and gardens, but they are for the show, not real love for mother nature. I don't know if I can sell the idea of natural gardening there. Actually, I am very very bad at selling anything, not the least selling ideas.

Eli, that sounds like a hobby turned into a job, marvelous. There are second hand tractors like that for just 1200€, pretty affordable. I get the point of the right size to fit a niche.

All in all, I think there are possiblities, but I doubt my gardening skills, and especially marketing myself. The former could be solved with a good master course. The latter is what holds me back.
 
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I have no idea how it would work for you, but I hire a gardener for my rental property. The tenants were asking for a tidier yard.
She works about 8 hours a month for me, so if you wanted to work full time you'd need a number of clients. I pay her $35 an hour. I know people who charge $50 or more, though of course that has no bearing on what you could make in Spain. She comes two days a month.
I'm a bit too permie to have a tidy garden that people can enjoy sitting around in, so she makes it more orderly & sweeps the paved areas, etc., helps prune the fruit trees and the bamboo, keeps track of what needs water and what doesn't, keeps my trees from scratching the neighbor's car, that kind of stuff. And then I don't have to worry about invading my tenants' privacy, or about remembering to care for plants I don't see on a daily basis.
It's easier to afford her for the rental than for my home, as it's a business expense.
I'm thinking of getting her help here at home, too, but I think she's busy with her other clients.
She chooses who she works for by what kind of garden they have and probably how well they get along. I'm really glad to have her help. I tried a lot of people before I found her and they didn't have the knowledge of food plants and native plants that she does, or the willingness to understand what kind of garden I want. She's constantly learning more about the plants.
She used to teach gardening at a children's private school.
I think if you bring that kind of skill to bear on your work, there will be people who appreciate you. They will tell your neighbors. She worked for my neighbor for a while but it didn't suit either of them. The gardener wasn't inexpensive enough for my neighbor, and the neighbor didn't have interesting enough plants for the gardener.
I had a previous gardener that I liked and who knew about fruits and natives. I met her through the botanical garden. We were both docents there. My current gardener is a docent at a different botanical garden. I think public gardens may be a place to connect with the kind of people you want to work for. Also, one of our community colleges has a permaculture program. I think they do referrals. You may have something similar.
If I were you, I would create a web page that showcases your botanical and horticultural knowledge and displays your aesthetic sense. I almost always look at people's web page when I'm looking to hire someone, it gives me an initial sense of what their work might be like.
 
Abraham Palma
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Thank you, Ellen, this is very helpful.

I've seen some gardeners in my area offering their job for 10€/ hour. I would need to work 7 hours a day, not including travel, just to make a very basic income at that wage. Excepting the rare cases that work for communities or the municipality, most of them have several clients. Maybe, being a different kind of a gardener, I may ask some more. I also speak English better than the average spanish person, so maybe I could make clients among the british settlers, who can afford to pay more. But on the other hand I have zero gardening experience, only my feeble attempts at making a dryland garden in a desert climate during a severe draught. Still no good pictures to show!
A web page would be very useful to make an statement before anyone contacts me, this can save much time.
 
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Abraham, i think a web page and targeting english speakers are both a great idea.
You could make cards with a link (QR code?) to your page, where there could be pictures of some of your work once you get some clients, for example.

I work with folks in Spain and I know about the freelance thing, at least you have health insurance with it. You figure if you don't pay the freelance fee for this you may end up paying it for other kinds of employment, it's basically inevitable. if you have competitors charging very low, they may indeed be working illegally, and it might be worth your while to target clients who have to do everything legally/correctly (in my field, in my area, very few of my competitors are legally established, and i target multinational companies who can only hire subcontractors with all their documentation in order, for example).

I was just watching something about a guy in Japan basically doing just this. An extra service, if you have your own space, might be takeaway of waste/trimmings, and even making compost with them.

Edited to add:
I hear what you're saying about your concerns (no experience yet, not sure about your qualifications). Maybe make a list of what you think is most important that you can provide, and put it that way. Like instead of thinking you shouldn't say permaculture if you haven't done a course, say "no pesticide, no chemical, working-with-nature garden care", "experience with drought-suited plants", etc. It's like farmers here who can't afford the $$$$ organic certification, so they sell their produce as "no chemicals used". You do have expertise, and it has a value.
 
Abraham Palma
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Low maintenance natural gardening is what I may offer. Although this 'low maintenance' is like putting sticks on my wheels. A it takes a nature loving character to appreciate it.
 
Ellen Lewis
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Bilingual web page, definitely.

Get a little more specific. What does "natural" mean? No toxins? Say that. Water conservation? Say that. Native plants? Pollinator friendly? Habitat? Food? Give your prospective clients details about what you can provide. Garden benches? Raised beds? Paved walkways? Mulch? Irrigation systems? Shade arbors? You want to appeal to people with some amount of knowledge.

Don't talk too much about low maintenance. If they were thinking about doing their own maintenance they wouldn't be hiring you. They want beauty, they want a refuge, they want fresh food, they have plants they are no longer young or agile enough to care for. Maintenance is what they pay you to think about so they don't have to!

Some people want a person to assist them. Others want someone to take charge so they don't have to think or do anything. Be prepared to do either.

Start building your skills. Take classes or study under someone. If you see someone maintaining trees, ask them about what they are doing, where they learned it, what they charge. Don't just look at craigslist, that's the people starting out. Competing with them is just lawn mowing. Emulate the skilled ones, don't expect to support yourself right away. Maybe you can find a skilled gardener who needs an assistant. Traditional gardening skills apply to permaculture, too. Aesthetic pruning is a big part of urban permaculture.

What tools you need partly depends on your transportation. Are you traveling by bicycle or truck? Will your clients need to provide a ladder or can you bring your own? You certainly want secateurs, loppers, various saws including a tiny pocket saw, a horihori, digging tools of different sizes, etc. Don't hesitate to buy good tools, but wait until you need them so you don't have to spend hundreds of euros all at once.
 
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You say you doubt your gardening skills. I think it will be crucial for you to gain confidence if you are going to sell your gardening services.

A master course may teach you many things, but I think what you also need is your “own” garden. If you have a garden that showcases your skills, and your understanding of the interrelationships of the community in your garden, then you are demonstrating “walking your talk”.  

For advertising, you can have a blog where you post photographs throughout the year and as the years go by.

You could provide locally relevant advice, like what needs to be done and can be done this week/month, in these soils (etc) in this place we call home.

In my opinion, a gardener needs experience with plants and soil and mulch and compost and they need confidence in their understanding of the connections between the elements of the plant community in their garden.


When people tell me their theories about gardening, I always want to see their gardens.  

You can definitely make a good living selling gardening services.  “Fine gardening”.  Dead heading perennials, pruning fruit trees, generally making the garden suit the client’s values.

I did this for a time, years ago.  I got my clients through the local nursery.  The people who hired me wanted just what I did, and were willing to pay.

Possibly, in the interim you could work at a small locally owned nursery.  A big store with a garden department could also be helpful in meeting people, and possibly the other employees would be knowledgeable about “gardening “ but their approach might differ from yours (pesticides and such).   What I like about the locally owned is that it’s likely the owner knows the customers, and if the fit is good, the owner will recommend you.

Or, you could propagate and grow plants you KNOW you will be recommending people grow…. for me that would be echinacea, comfrey, Maximilian sunflower, hollyhocks, Jerusalem artichokes, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, elderberries, various species of viburnum.  For other ideas, maybe checkout the plants being sold by permaculture focused online nurseries.  Good luck!  It IS possible.
 
Abraham Palma
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Hi, Thekla.
You hit a spot. If I go this route, I would certaintly take the Master Gardening Course here in permies. I've learned a lot about gardening, but maybe not at proffesional level yet. I've taken a look at the formal education in the college, and it displeases me, none the least because it takes two years.

I don't have a garden, I cannot afford it. Land is very expensive in the city. Only a terrace in my appartment with excessive insolation and wind. And a stupid cat that kills my seedlings.
What I have used for practice is a community garden that has little water availability, so I've been practicing weeding, composting, mulching and pruning mostly. Seed savings too. I've also rejuvenated a couple of fruit trees. People who has visited the place before says to me that it is in a much better shape than it was before, but when I take pictures, it is a bit disappointing. The draught is certainly taking its toll.

I've considered the nursery, as a way of learning more about what plants are usually at offer and their local seasons. I may ask if they accept workers without the certification (it's really hard to apply for a job without overqualification, since nowadays everyone is overqualificated, which is why I think self employment will be easier).

EDIT. I've picked a look at the employment offers in the sector: they require formal education in gardening and 1 to 3 years of experience for a wage of 15000€/year brute.

EDIT. I'll take a few pictures next day I am in the garden about what I've been working on. Maybe you could give me a better feedback that way.
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Wow, Abraham!

You’re up against some real challenges!

I admire your initiative in trying to find your way through to autonomy and independence

And I know what you mean about early stages not photographing well!

I don’t have “before” pictures!  Which i regret when I want to showcase what I have accomplished.🫤

The community garden is an excellent strategy.  Do you have your own plot?  Or is the whole garden communal?

And, it occurs to me that somewhere on Permies is an opportunity to have a thread all about your project.  

Once you find it, you can start documenting your progress, which would allow you to skip the blog idea….. or maybe this thread will be adequate documentation 😊

I look forward to seeing photos!

 
Abraham Palma
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Be my guest!

https://permies.com/t/175744/permaculture-sites/Project-Gardens-Orchard-Dignity

EDIT. Just so you know the difficulty, we don't invest much money in the adventure partly because it is a public space where they can evict us anytime and there's vandalism, partly because it's a hobby my wife is not happy about, so I am very restricted on how much time and money I can invest. This is mostly free work 3 hours a week, scavenging and help from some old ladies.
Turning the hobby into a job will surely allow me to invest more.
 
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Hi Abraham!
I agree that getting experience is going to be crucial - much more important than advanced degrees. You can have a great business plan but if you don’t know how to do the work you are not going to be happy because your clients won’t be happy.
We have a permaculture resort rental in france and would be super happy if we could find a someone who spoke English and knew how to do maintenance.  There would be a lot of demand for those services.  Look at VRBO or airB&B advertisements.  Those owners need the kind of services you want to offer.
But first… you need the skills and portfolio.
Are there Waldorf Schools near you?  Volunteering in school gardens can be a great place to get experience and exposure (and photos) while doing some real service to the community.
Volunteering a set number of hours a month with an experienced mentor who can show you the ropes could be a good option.
Partnering with a professional who can benefit from your English skills while you learn the business and gardening skills could be a win/win.
In Sonoma County California there is a business called “Permaculture Artisans” they have lots of customers willing to pay permaculturists for help designing and implementing plans.  You might want to look at their website for some ideas.  
Here in drought stricken California we have a growing demand for lawn transformations.  Lawns are becoming illegal-ish.  It’s very satisfying to help people move from lawn to sheet mulched native plant habitat.  There’s planning and work getting them in and then these transformations need regular maintenance while they are getting established.  It’s a 3 year process. Year one they put down their roots.  Year two they spread a little.  Year three they go crazy. Long term the transformed yard has the promise of saving the owner money on water bills. Once you know how to do it beautifully the services advertise themselves.  Lawn signs saying “another beautiful permaculture transformation brought to you by…”. You can do a lot of public education that is fun - the importance of native plants, water conservation, soil building, carbon sequestration, etc. And help people feel good about becoming part of the solution.
Have fun transforming your career!
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Hi Abraham,
I enjoyed looking at your thread. You are way ahead of me. You have been documenting from day one. I cannot believe how you keep on going in the face of so many challenges. When a challenge develops, you respond specifically to that challenge. To me that is the essence of Permaculture. And in reading all your posts, I think you are quite competent in your plant care, in recognizing what is needed and trying to fulfill those needs.

I don’t know if it would be possible to find Geoff Lawton‘s greening the desert videos. Two things that stick with me, first making pigeon roost so that the pigeons would come and poop on the garden, which of course is added nitrogen and soil fertility!

Also, they did some thing like what you’re doing with your little sunken triangle garden beds. I know that in some parts of sub-Saharan Africa they have a strategy like that called a Zai hole. Theirs are larger.  But it’s the same concept.

in greening the desert, they dug long troughs, swales, ditches. Water collected in the depressions.  They had mulch and chips and such to prevent evaporation and moderate the temperature extremes.  They used a tremendous amount of mulch, organic matter to retain that moisture.



I don’t know if I have described that well, I don’t know if that would be helpful to you.

Looking at how hard you’re working and what kind of parent material you are turning into soil, I think with your new water storage and your years of working you will soon get to a point where the process accelerates.

I don’t know what kind of organic waste material is available in your region. I am ashamed to say that in affluent, United States of America, coffee grounds are thrown away every day, along with all kinds of waste food and produce (vegetables).  I think the more organic material you can get on your ground the better. Go ahead and walk on it. Just spread things like leaves, straw and woodchips and coffee grounds or what ever you can get everywhere!  

Sorry about the vandalism 😢.  That’s just got to get old!  discouraging!  I think your soil is closer than you think, and are pretty skilled as well!

Maybe, to try your hand at a more “advanced“ gardening maybe what I mean is more finished more decorative gardening, you could find a lovely garden and volunteer?

 
Abraham Palma
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I think you are quite competent in your plant care, in recognizing what is needed and trying to fulfill those needs.



Thank you for the encouragement.

Yesterday I was planting a couple of plants and smiled at the good shape of the soil in the market garden rows. It wasn't hard to dig, unlike other parts of the orchard, where I need the pickaxe. It smelled nice.

Yes, I am familiar with Greening the Desert. I think I've watched them all.
One keystone that wasn't mentioned until very recently is that they planted a rustic tree everywhere, and they watered them. Yes, they have tap water in the property. They reuse tap water as grey water, so it is more ecological, and with all those water features irrigation is very efficient, but still they irrigate. These pioneer trees made the foundation for the forest to be. In our case we are working with carobs, but they are slow growth.

I took your advice of working on someone else's garden who has water. I think I can convince my mother to let me manage her garden; she will be doing irrigation her way but I can help with plant selection, mulching, composting and pruning. She might not be happy with 'decorative shaping' though. The hardest part will be to convince her to dedicate space for the compost piles.
 
Thekla McDaniels
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Good practice with the opportunity to grow plants….  And what you’ll likely come up against in gardening for others:

It’s their garden, and it needs to reflect their preferences and values.  

I tried to keep the focus off the elements I added to clients’ gardens that were ’beyond’ their expressed wants.

They didn’t notice what all i was doing, if there interests were coming along.

What ever else i was doing for soil development or future appearances, I would never spend a whole visit on “my” priorities, always made sure at least one spot in the garden had clearly been refreshed, weeded, deadheaded etc.
 
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I've been gardening for about 25 years and am paid well to do so. To start out, don't charge full price and buy your tools as you need them. Study and research on your own. It's easy to be a mark above the crowd if you just be a good person, be there when you say and call if you can't, fix your mistakes without an argument and pay attention to details. Advertise on free or nearly so, platforms and then let word of mouth grow your business. My growth was slow and steady but solid.
In Kansas, people are just beginning to appreciate regenerative gardening. Price points play a huge role, such as using native tree chip mulch. It's cheaper for the client and I know I'm building better soil. Digging French bed edges rather than using that plastic edging, saves them money, helps hold water and mulch in place and needs very little touching up if there is solid lawn growth on the outside. Throw the soil that you dig up into the beds to slightly mound the grow bed to keep plant roots from rotting in late winter when it's often cold and damp. It looks good too. We refuse to use glyphosate and use 20% vinegar mix with salt and detergent or hand remove weeds. It doesn't save them noticeable money but it's important.
 
Thekla McDaniels
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I wholeheartedly agree with Charlotte!

And there are so many benefits to not using toxic compounds…. Like children, chickens and pets are not getting poisoned.
 
Abraham Palma
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What tools you need partly depends on your transportation. Are you traveling by bicycle or truck? Will your clients need to provide a ladder or can you bring your own?



This one got me thinking.
I thought that I would need a small van for tools, substrate bags and saplings, how else could I bring them?
Would it be possible to work without the van? Maybe not the bicycle (my target houses are 20-30 km away), but I have a motorbike. A selection of small tools can be carried in a bag, if the clients are able to provide the rest.

I've been gardening for about 25 years and am paid well to do so. To start out, don't charge full price and buy your tools as you need them. Study and research on your own. It's easy to be a mark above the crowd if you just be a good person, be there when you say and call if you can't, fix your mistakes without an argument and pay attention to details. Advertise on free or nearly so, platforms and then let word of mouth grow your business. My growth was slow and steady but solid.
In Kansas, people are just beginning to appreciate regenerative gardening. Price points play a huge role, such as using native tree chip mulch. It's cheaper for the client and I know I'm building better soil. Digging French bed edges rather than using that plastic edging, saves them money, helps hold water and mulch in place and needs very little touching up if there is solid lawn growth on the outside. Throw the soil that you dig up into the beds to slightly mound the grow bed to keep plant roots from rotting in late winter when it's often cold and damp. It looks good too. We refuse to use glyphosate and use 20% vinegar mix or hand remove weeds. It doesn't save them noticeable money but it's important.



I am already 44, only 2 years of practice, but I've found I like this work. Except for that, I mark all the other quotes in your first paragraph.
Yep, I am wondering too, if my clients ask me to apply -cides, if I should keep my standards or go for the pay. Applying -cides requires a special license which I don't plan on getting.

I am learning that it is possible to have a regenerative garden and a clean one at the same time, it only takes more work. Mature mulching is neater than composting in place.
And that it is a bad idea to mulch pot plants with chop&drop. The pot is too small for having a plant and composting at the same time.
 
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I think a goal should be don't buy equipment that your clients don't pay for. This of course is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. This post is from a former Permie (he hasn't posted in years) who would do this type of work. The post is a review of an electric mower, new, purchased by him specifically for this job, which would pay for the equipment and continue earning for him.

You may want to search his old posts for other such nuggets.
 
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Charolett Knapic wrote:Digging French bed edges rather than using that plastic edging, saves them money, helps hold water and mulch in place and needs very little touching up if there is solid lawn growth on the outside. Throw the soil that you dig up into the beds to slightly mound the grow bed to keep plant roots from rotting in late winter when it's often cold and damp. It looks good too.



I don't want to derail the conversation, but I am intrigued by this and could not find anything specific by searching. I don't use herbicides or power tools, so edging has been the bane of my short existence as a novice gardener. I just recently installed some of the plastic in-ground edging, and it has been a revelation since I can mow over it. But I would love a solution that does not involve plastic. So how does one accomplish a French bed edge?
 
Abraham Palma
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I think he refers to french draining. It's a ditch filled with gravel. Nothing grows there.
 
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Angel, one can use a shovel to cut a nice edge between the lawn and a flower bed. Dig out a scoop 3 or 4 inches deep all along the edge and mound that dirt in the flower bed. No need for edging at all. If the edge starts to look ragged you can repeat the procedure.
Abraham, I wonder whether you are allowed to do freelance work in addition to a job. The idea being your job pays the employment tax while you are building your business. When you have enough clientele leave the job. There is definitely a market for skilled gardeners but having support as you develop your skills and find your niche would be nice. I would and do avoid all of the chemicals. Where I live I need to be licensed to use these on a client's property and then use them according to the label. This means no vinegar for weed control. It works out, most of my competitors use the cides. I market my squeemishness with chemicals as an organic approach. I do aquire significant quantities of weeds which need disposal. You will want to have a place to compost. Or maybe rabbits. If you get certification from an educational institution it will help you approach clients who can afford more exciting projects but there is no substitute for hands on experience. Get started, you will learn as you grow.
I started in business mowing lawns. The shrubs and flower beds weren't my responsibility. I developed a niche for my mowing business by learning to take on these extras, many of my competitors don't. I learned quite a bit from aging homeowners who have hired me. I now have clients who I design, install and maintain flower beds for, as well as the mowing. I have never had a client asking me to grow veggies. I think it might be possible to find clients who will pay me to grow organic produce in their own yard rather than paying at the market. I'm sharpening my skills with veggies as I figure it out.
 
Abraham Palma
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Thank you Joe for the support.

It is possible to have two jobs, of course, however it is heavily taxed, so if I take that route, one job has to be in the black market, not something that I'd like.

I've been able to contact other gardeners that work with regenerative gardening, but they are mostly arborists (they climb and prune tall trees). Their suggestion was to take a course on gardening, then trying my luck in a big company, offering my skills. There's a chance that one of them wish to have the option to offer regenerative gardening to their clients. Meanwhile, I could get some experience and contacts.

So now I am just trying to decide if I take the free course for unemployed that is offered by the municipality or taking a paid course by the gardening association, which is higher quality.
 
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The 350€ per month will be worth it once you're able to make that much. I very much like being an owner not an employee. While you're taking baby steps towards being an owner perhaps you can barter your services to sidestep problems with the black market. As a business owner one can further environmental or social causes in more ways than an employee. Your business will spend money, you can choose which products or suppliers to support. You can hire good people and treat them well. You decide what methods to use. Some aren't suited to own a business I realize, but for myself it felt like I was stepping into a role as a more full member of my community. Like parenting.
 
Abraham Palma
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I took your advice and asked my mother to let me meddle in her garden for advertising. It's a win win situation, since she's received an order for no irrigation, and I've provided a solution. I gave work in return for pictures.

If I had charged her, this job would have cost 300€, (100€ materials + 10 hours at 20€/h). It's a 25x1 m gardening bed, with some established plants, and some others that she wanted to plant. I adviced to plant ground covers too. I leveled the ground, removed stones and used them for drainage, installed deep irrigation pipes, adapted a few pretty water bottles for drip irrigation and applied mulch. In addition, we set up a composting bin.

She's happy with the results, and I am happy with the pictures. Watch them here: https://permies.com/t/235112/gardener-work
 
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Congratulations Abraham, its a great feeling to complete a project. I dream of a world where its recognized as a basic human right to exchange my labor with someone who wants to pay me. One is expected to pay property tax after they purchase land. In effect you rent "your" land. By analogy when labor is taxed the laborer is renting his body. Insane.
 
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I live in a 100 unit coop building in a big northeastern city and we have pay a woman around $10-12k per year to maintain the 4’ deep strip of garden in front of our building (maybe 200 ft long?) plus 4 small plots surrounding the street trees in front of the building. The fee includes plants and I think her rate is around $50/hr. She shows up a couple times a month (more frequently in summer) and does a lovely job maintaining our mostly perennials, swaps out seasonal annuals, and keeping an eye on the soil quality. We are one of dozens of similar buildings in the area, and her fee is around 1% of our total operating budget- and everyone loves the garden and would never consider cutting its budget. Long way of saying, targeting buildings may be an easier sell than individual homeowners, and the ftsq is relatively small and easy to manage/access, while still being a fun ongoing project that is appreciated and admired by dozens of people.
 
Abraham Palma
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Hi, Sarah.
Certainly I wouldn't mind to work on buildings. In fact, this would be much closer to my house. But to my knowledge, all condos here (meaning their property managers) prefer to contract services with full maintenance companies, they care for the pool, the gardens, the cleaning, electricity, and everything else except the elevators. So, caring for these gardens is only possible by being an employee in such companies.

For now, I will begin taking some courses that enable being an employee so I can gather more experience before going on my own. This will take longer, but it will be safer, and my wife is demanding me some security.
 
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Have you taken the plunge yet?  I'm here to tell you that Yes, you can absolutely make a living maintaining and designing/tweaking other people's yards and help them convert to a permaculture landscape.  That's exactly what I do now going on 3 years full time.  I'm not going to lie and say it's an easy gig (especially when it's just you and the properties are large) but it can totally be a life changing event.  Now, I have a different background as far as gardening goes in that I have a lifetime of it and went to school for horticulture when I was just a child (at 16 I started college), but if you have the basics and the curiousity to learn you can do this.

I would say, from my own experience of these clients, that people are afraid of their own lack of skills.  They have happily turned their yards over to me to worry about and I have led them to permaculture solutions and taught them things as we've gone along.  Word has spread and I've had to turn away new clients for now, but that's because I have yet to find someone who's skills I can trust.  I have issues with the kids who are coming out of school with horticultural educations because it seems they don't teach them how to actually care for the plants or land.  Nothing beats the experience of a master gardener passing on knowledge tips and tricks.  There really is, in my mind, no end to the learning and development process for a gardener.

My own roster of people came from friends who were convinced that I could make it happen for them through hearing me talk about it all the time.  I've quite the reputation for being a proverbial tree hugger and sustainable architecture nut.  My current list of clients all came from having gone to work for a local landscaping company for a year.  My assignments (properties) came to trust me through work experience and when I left the company, they reached out to me to take them on as private clients.  I don't feel bad for the company as they would send people to do work they had no idea how to do, charged a fortune, and just seemed to be about profit.  I object to that train of thought, so I quit, and thank goodness I did.

I use my own property and food forest(baby) as my nursery to ensure field grown, acclimatized root stocks and sell those to my clients for install.  I also do winter sowing in milk jugs for spring plantings.  Perhaps you could get away with that in regards to propagation with a cat?  Sounds like you don't have the space for composting yet but the public loves the idea of supporting a local grower with young plants to put in their own yards or have installed.

Point is that yes, this is absolutely a viable option and if it's in your heart, you'll be much more sustained in pursuing it.  Isn't that what it's all about?  Pursuing a life well lived in harmony with the planet?!  

Jen
 
Abraham Palma
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Hello again.

I'm finally unemployed, which means I can fully dedicate my time towards this goal.
For now, I am studying the Helen Atthowe's Garden Master Course, online version.
That's partly why I am less active in the forums.

I'm also looking at how to gain some experience with machinery by working in some gardening company first. However, getting certified experience seems to require that I pass a formal education course. So, I'm also looking at basic courses that open that door.

Will get you updated!
 
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Update.

I'm taking a few courses (for the peace of mind of my family), and I've found a house (not strictly a client) where I'm practicing this gardening style. So I've got theory and practice.
I'm working now on the branding, since I want to offer a profesional look to my clients.
And by pure chance, I've found another regenerative urban gardener who's been working thirty years already and he is gladly sharing his knowledge with me! I'm thrilling. He is foreseeing success. His style is slightly different than mine, but he's got a huge knowledge about plants and how to care them.

I already have a few hand tools that I considered necessary for the maintenance of the garden, but have bought no machinery yet. Everyone is advicing electric machinery to me, but I still do not feel like I need it.

There seems to be many subsidies for starting a new business, at least for the first two years, and been able to make invoices is a plus. So, as soon as I get my gardener title, I'm going to do this legally.
 
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Hi Abraham!

I just typed out a giant reply to this thread at 3am because I couldn’t sleep.

So this is the abridged version #2 of what was once a much longer reply:

I’ve been in the field for 20 years or so in one form or another and I came here because I am toying with the idea of my own gardening company.

From the best possible place: I don’t think you are ready.

Confidence and knowledge in sales is the entire business. You can only get there when you really know your stuff on the horticulture side. High-end clientele can smell bs a mile away. And yes, you need at least fairly high-end clientele. Unless you want to do high-volume (which is much worse imho), you won’t be able to make a living.

You would do well to work for someone else for a few years and lower your expectation of what permaculture is. A truck backs up the same way on a permaculture landscape as it does on a conventional one. You can still be ethical and regenerative while learning from people and working places that may be slightly less so, at least until you’ve built up your skills and your wallet enough. It takes money to start a business, don’t let anyone to you otherwise. Very few people can bootstrap themselves into a living. Especially if you don’t have a lot of prior knowledge or extreme luck. Ever do a big warranty project because you messed up while someone was paying you? I have. It can put you straight into a big hole.

Also, in response to some of the things others said in this thread: putting random organic matter onto the soil is not a good way to go. And composting other people’s waste is terrible advice!  That is its own business in and of itself and requires space and equipment.

Please know that I fully support the idea if you do try to do it: I’m not a naysayer. I have just started my own business before and failed because I wasn’t ready and wouldn’t want someone else to do that, too. Especially if your family doesn’t agree! Did I read that part right? That’s a hard stop, too.

Anyway, happy to discuss more if you like. You can also tell me to screw and I won’t be offended.

…I guess version 2 reply wasn’t so short either.



 
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Samuel Billings wrote:Hi Abraham!

I just typed out a giant reply to this thread at 3am because I couldn’t sleep.

So this is the abridged version #2 of what was once a much longer reply:

I’ve been in the field for 20 years or so in one form or another and I came here because I am toying with the idea of my own gardening company.

From the best possible place: I don’t think you are ready.

Confidence and knowledge in sales is the entire business. You can only get there when you really know your stuff on the horticulture side. High-end clientele can smell bs a mile away. And yes, you need at least fairly high-end clientele. Unless you want to do high-volume (which is much worse imho), you won’t be able to make a living.

You would do well to work for someone else for a few years and lower your expectation of what permaculture is. A truck backs up the same way on a permaculture landscape as it does on a conventional one. You can still be ethical and regenerative while learning from people and working places that may be slightly less so, at least until you’ve built up your skills and your wallet enough. It takes money to start a business, don’t let anyone to you otherwise. Very few people can bootstrap themselves into a living. Especially if you don’t have a lot of prior knowledge or extreme luck. Ever do a big warranty project because you messed up while someone was paying you? I have. It can put you straight into a big hole.

Also, in response to some of the things others said in this thread: putting random organic matter onto the soil is not a good way to go. And composting other people’s waste is terrible advice!  That is its own business in and of itself and requires space and equipment.

Please know that I fully support the idea if you do try to do it: I’m not a naysayer. I have just started my own business before and failed because I wasn’t ready and wouldn’t want someone else to do that, too. Especially if your family doesn’t agree! Did I read that part right? That’s a hard stop, too.

Anyway, happy to discuss more if you like. You can also tell me to screw and I won’t be offended.

…I guess version 2 reply wasn’t so short either.





Hello, Samuel.

First, be welcomed to permies, the best forum for homesteaders.
Next, I want to thank you. It's not easy to express disagreement, and your answer really deserves to be thought about.
There are a few keystones in my path that are suggesting me to continue, though.

I've been in a career orientation course, and it has helped me to focus my project. So far, I'm doing rather small steps, but it works well for me for several reasons, one of them is that I have time for studying. My family is getting used to the idea, and is now offering constructive criticism. I showed my wife real numbers, and is getting convinced that we are not going to starve. I have some money for the moment, enough for a couple of years. I am learning that there are some incentives for starting a new bussiness: low taxing for the first two years, and some extra money for the start.
I've started working at a small garden: I listen to the client preferences and try to include ecological practices in areas where he doesn't mind. He agreed to have a compost pile and adding some clover to his bermuda grass, for example. He seems happy with the results, and is asking me to go more frequently. It's just three hours a week, but it's enough to get the practice that I need.
At the same time, I've met a couple of ecological gardeners who are enthusiastic about my project and are giving me very valuable advices. They've also pointed me to an ecological nursery that has recently opened in the area (only six months since they went fully ecological). The nursery doesn't have many plants yet, but what they have is excellent.
I've purchased some manual tools with what I earned working. A friend borrows me her minivan in case I need it, but so far I didn't need it, cause most of the things that are bought in bulk is carried by the seller.
Another friend who has a renovation company is passing me new clients.
In the orientation course, they've allowed me to open a xerogarden and advertise me (I pay the installation, they allow me to advertise for one year). The placement is excellent, since it's in a very busy street.

There are some many locks that are unlocking themselves, that I can't help but think that the universe wants me just here. That I have to fail and learn, it's something I try to remember. One big failure I made two weeks ago when I ordered what I thought it was 1000 m3 of substrate (vegetal earth it is called) but it was 70% dirt with 30% compost, and it took me almost eight hours carrying loads of earth by hand climbing a two stories staircase. Lesson learned.
 
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