This idea comes from the gamcod project idea. If it works well, I like the idea that we come up with lots of variations of this in the future.
This thread is for brainstorming and polishing this idea. Hopefully, in four to seven days, we will create the official thread and get started.
Mark out 200 square feet of dirt (or maybe lawn). There needs to be some way to demonstrate that it is dirt and NOT soil. This has to be raw, unused land of some sort. Definitely not something that has been used as a garden before.
For this first attempt at a movie project, if your garden is in an area that went to zero F or colder in the last ten years, then it qualifies. (if this works, later projects might be for warmer climates)
At least five crops that are generally known as food (you can find the foods in the organic grocery). No soy. And the focus remains as "highest calories per acre". Polyculture is strongly encouraged.
Optional: an additional 200 square foot plot that is planted with perennials. A summary in late summer about what the productivity might be like in five years and ten years.
monies
- for a kickstarter movie that brings in more than $50,000 (the "goal" will be $50,000)
o $100 per minute if the kickstarter brings in $50k to $99K
o $200 per minute if the kickstarter brings in $100k to $199K
o $400 per minute if the kickstarter brings in more than $200K
- prorated, so if we use 22 seconds you get 22/60 of a minute of this dealio
If we use 30 minutes of video in the final movie, and the kickstarter brings in $100,000, that would be $6000.
I am willing to sweeten the offer for "big names".
I know there will be people in warmer climates that wanna play. Maybe that could be a thing we try next year. But for this to work, I need to draw some lines for the first try.
The primary focus will be on highest calories harvested. But air time will also go to projects that were almost as high in calories, but:
- little to zero cost
- very litte effort
So, keep track of
- total time put in (try to keep this low)
- total money spent (try to keep this low)
- total money saved in groceries (try to keep this high)
Participants are encouraged to use a "ghost acre": a place where mulches and fertilizers are grown, outside of the 200 square feet.
I want to see practices far above organic.
I want to see this done with zero imports from off-site. I wish for the final movie to advocate NOT buying stuff, and NOT risking the import of things that could be toxic.
Most of all: I want people that watch this movie to KNOW to their core that gardening is:
paul wheaton wrote:I want this to be a movie that people will watch and then try growing their first garden. A little effort, about $20 in seeds and then they might end up saving $1000 in food. And they did it without buying toxic gick, and without accidentally adding toxic gick. It is highly probable that the food they grew is of a higher quality than the very best food they could buy within a hundred miles.
Working Requirements Summary - Zone 5B Or Colder If your garden is in an area that went to zero F or colder in the last ten years, then it qualifies.
- 200 square foot of dirt/lawn (No prior garden or soil improvement) *Does shape matter, circles? Long and thin?* - At least 5 recognizable crops grown (No Soy) (Polyculture encouraged) (Most calories produced encouraged)
- Non-GMO Seeds/Starts only. (Purchasing organic certified starts is frowned upon, non-organic out of the question)
- No outside soil/mulch/fertilizer inputs. (Can use ghost acre where mulch/fertilizers are grown outside the 200 square feet)
- No manure unless the animal AND animal feed come from on site
- Ash and biochar are okay if from on-site.
- Above organic standard practices
- Minimal mechanized tools (Chainsaw okay)
How to increase chances your garden is featured? - little to zero cost
- very little effort
- grow your garden in a unique way (Hügelkultur would be A+)
- show that you are REALLY starting from dirt not soil. Comparison?
Optional bonus points - Grow another 200 square foot patch with only perennials as comparison. (Estimate where it could be in 5 to 10 years)
Video Recording Information
Iphones will work just fine for this.
24, 30, and 60 FPS are fine.
HD is standard, 4K would be amazing because it allows zooming without video loss (Takes up more storage space however)
Please note, high resolution quality pictures can supplement your video submissions.
About the video files:
The footage should be shot in landscape - horizontal - 16:9 aspect ratio.
For HD that would be 1920x1080. ***No vertical shots please!***
Estimate footage to submit - 8 hours (Can be more or less. Focus on quality)
What are your footage requirements? How much video time would you expect someone to submit on average?
I feel like I could do multiple check ins, but I don't want to flood the reviewers with too much video or not provide enough as the growing season progresses.
My guess is that each person will submit about 8 hours of video total.
Some people will submit 8 hours, and we will use 10 minutes, and some people will submit 8 hours and we will use 40 minutes. Of course, some people might submit 50 hours of stuff, and, in the end, we will use none of it.
Also, we will do like we have for past kickstarter projects and offer 20 hours of stuff as a bonus thing, although we won't pay for that - we just pay for the minutes that go into the movie.
I feel like I could do multiple check ins, but I don't want to flood the reviewers with too much video or not provide enough as the growing season progresses.
You are welcome to post to your own youtube channel as you go.
I don't know what too much or too little is. It depends. If the video quality is low, then ten minutes is way too much. If the video quality is excellent, and the content is excellent, and the sound is excellent, then 20 hours might seem like too little.
I have done something similar a few years ago, but 860 square feet, and I'm in the equivalent of the zone 6. I have documented that with pictures. I share a few here, just to encourage others that it is possible with almost zero cost and your own work as the only input :) I hope many people accept this challenge and opportunity :) Have fun guys!
To harp on shape just a little bit more for clarity, if I mark out a plot that's 25 by 10, but run a 2-foot path down the middle, I really have two 4x25 plots. Is that in keeping with the spirit of the project or is that a violation? I can't think of any reason that two 4x25 plots would be bad when one 4x50 plot is OK, but it seems worth asking about.
I have enough room for a few patches like that in my dry, sparse field. Can I have a friend garden their own plot near mine? Would that violate the "YOUR property" rule? Ditto for someone doing it at the lab?
I'd suggest the garden shape be somewhat limited. If I could do a 200' by 1' garden I could probably grow a bunch of trellised calories... I'd suggest 10x20' or a 16' diameter circle.
Does squash count as one crop or could someone grow 5 different squashes (butternut, buttercup, spaghetti, acorn and hubbard) for the contest?
Christopher Weeks wrote:To harp on shape just a little bit more for clarity, if I mark out a plot that's 25 by 10, but run a 2-foot path down the middle, I really have two 4x25 plots. Is that in keeping with the spirit of the project or is that a violation? I can't think of any reason that two 4x25 plots would be bad when one 4x50 plot is OK, but it seems worth asking about.
25x10 is 250 square feet. Out.
20x10 with stepping stones is good. 20x10 with a path down the middle is fine, but you probably won't grow as much as somebody doing a raised bed that is five feet wide and 40 feet long.
Marking off 200 square feet as more than one piece is out.
One piece that is 200 square feet. My guess is that most people will simply put a path in the middle, and that's fine. Others will try to come up with clever ways to grow more calories per acre.
After all, this project was borne from GAMCOD. So the idea is that there would be an acre of dirt. There would definitely need to be some sort of path, but if you were growing 400 acres of corn, you would probably plant it quite densely without paths.
I have seen small gardens pretending to be large gardens. 80% of the ground was paths with tiny little growing beds. While that is excellent for those folks, I wish to make a movie advocating something else.
Suppose 100 people start this project and 14 people finish. Then we have to figure out what can we make a movie with. All 14? Just 3? We are talking about biology and horticulture and goals to convey knowledge to other brains.
And what if just 2 people finish? Is there enough to make a movie?
Mike Haasl wrote:I have enough room for a few patches like that in my dry, sparse field. Can I have a friend garden their own plot near mine? Would that violate the "YOUR property" rule?
Dafuk?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.
Are you saying that there would be another person doing all this stuff, but it would be on your land?
I don't care who owns it, what I care about is a demonstration of growing on 200 square feet. If this other person is just a carbon copy of you, it doesn't add anything to the movie.
But if they have a different style, and grow different stuff in a different way, then that sounds like it would be good stuff.
Ditto for someone doing it at the lab?
This was the original design: five different gardeners each doing their own style on the lab.
I'd suggest the garden shape be somewhat limited. If I could do a 200' by 1' garden I could probably grow a bunch of trellised calories... I'd suggest 10x20' or a 16' diameter circle.
Maybe in this thread we can hear from people on what they plan on doing.
In the end, we need at least 3 gardens. Preferably closer to 8. Maybe as many as a dozen. If the trellis idea is actually best, then let's count those calories, but it would come with a lot of effort and possibly expense. Plus, it kinda suggests a lot of work - which is contrary to what we are looking for. And it deviates far enough from what seems simple and easy that we probably won't use it.
Does squash count as one crop or could someone grow 5 different squashes (butternut, buttercup, spaghetti, acorn and hubbard) for the contest?
If this is your design and there are only 2 other designs to choose from, then, I will add something snotty as a voiceover, but it could make it in. At the same time, I hope we have enough OTHER video from OTHER people that we end up not using that.
Mike Haasl wrote:I have enough room for a few patches like that in my dry, sparse field. Can I have a friend garden their own plot near mine? Would that violate the "YOUR property" rule?
Dafuk?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.
The title of this thread highlights the word "YOUR" so I didn't know if that was an actual requirement. Sounds like it isn't. Yay!
Just clarifying a few points:
First, the zone range. I'm a bit north of Lake Erie, so Canadian zone 6b, is that cold enough? ( not sure which type of zone range you are using and how it differs from the Canadian one)
Would starting with a grassed area work? I moved to this property late last year and am working on getting it's mostly-lawn converted to food plants. Lots of beds have to be made but there is mostly grass on it aside from under the big trees. ( I have a fairly ratty looking spot I could use but the whole property is sandy loam with high water table so good soil)
In terms of "outside" inputs, I'm using leaves and grass cuttings from the property so far, over clean cardboard from our move. Topping with wood chips from next door right now but will have on-property wood chips in a month or so. I'd be willing to try a bed without the cardboard but are the leaves/clippings and chips acceptable?
I have some plants I moved myself, from our old property, as well as lots of seeds, ( saved, given to me and bought) and was going to make my own sweet potato slips from store-bought tubers. Also have a few sunchokes I got at the farmers market last fall. If calories are the target, I'd go for using a bit from all these sources but am not sure what would fit your qualifications.
I have no authority on this project, but I know that US and Canadian growing zones are different and the rough rule of thumb to 'translate' the values is -> Canada Zone + 1 = US Zone
That is a big rough number but you be an edgecase for being able to participate.
I plan on using a part of my lawn.
Leaves/Clippings/Chips from your property should be acceptable.
I'd give it a try - just to see what I can do, if it turns out, I'll submit, if not, it was a learning experience. I like the idea a lot and I like the limitation of size. With 17 acres to play with I find myself stretched too thin all the time and this would force me to limit my garden size.
Dian Green wrote:I'm a bit north of Lake Erie, so Canadian zone 6b, is that cold enough? ( not sure which type of zone range you are using and how it differs from the Canadian one)
This USDA zone map includes Canada. I think only the southernmost coastal BC can be too warm for Paul's cutoff.
Dian Green wrote:Would starting with a grassed area work? I moved to this property late last year and am working on getting it's mostly-lawn converted to food plants. Lots of beds have to be made but there is mostly grass on it aside from under the big trees. ( I have a fairly ratty looking spot I could use but the whole property is sandy loam with high water table so good soil)
Paul's post says "maybe lawn", so if it doesn't feel like cheating you are probably good.
Still thinking about this as a possibility to try. Except, under my lawn it is pure clay. I might even need a pick-axe to dig a hole to plant a potato . Which is why I grow in towers, but that does not qualify.
But is it wrong that my first thought was 2 x 100 . A stripe, right along the yard LOL.
wood chips: if we are desperate, i will allow it. But if i can have enough video with zero woodchips, I will use that instead.
leaves are fine
grass cuttings are fine if you talk about where they come from and those grasses have been strictly organic for more than ten years.
sweet potatoes and sunchokes sound smart.
I think that converting a lawn into a garden is a common theme - so I will accept it. At the same time, we still need some sort of indicator that the lawn is riding on dirt (not soil).
under my lawn it is pure clay. I might even need a pick-axe to dig a hole to plant a potato .
hugelkultur!
what else do we do?
At the moment, help me think of parameters for this effort. In a few days, I will start the official thread. What are to be the rules? What are to be the guidelines?
I don't qualify as I'm in Zone 6B, but I'm going to do it anyway just to see how my plot compares with other gardeners. I've got an area picked out where my 3 feeder pigs were pastured for a few weeks last fall. It was just dirt and weeds, but they rooted it up pretty well and left it well manured, so the native weeds are greener than other parts of my yard now.
Is there a chart or something showing calories per pound or bushel or whatever for various veggies, or do I need to do the research to figure that out for myself?
I'm in zone 3b and will 100% be in on this. I have an ambitious year planned already so now I will be adding a 200 Sq ft garden that is aimed to be productive yet mostly hands off.
I'm excited to see that this is aimed for colder climates as 90% of the stuff online takes place in places way warmer than I am.
Krysta Glovasky-Ridsdale wrote:Still thinking about this as a possibility to try. Except, under my lawn it is pure clay. I might even need a pick-axe to dig a hole to plant a potato . Which is why I grow in towers.
Actually a good demonstration project. I am out of zone so I don't qualify for this one but this is what I did. The ground under this was solid clay with some soil development as horse pasture. Grass was persistent crab grass that regrows from the smallest root piece.
Are animal byproducts allowed (Manure/bedding, ect)? If you can show that the animals on your property are raised with zero off-site inputs would that meet the qualifications?
Irrigation: Are you allowed to irrigate the area? If so, are there any restrictions in how irrigation is provided?
irrigation is allowed - no limit. After all, part of the mission will be to build soil.
animal byproducts: provided they come from within 500 feet of the garden. Even more, some people might choose to run animals into the garden (eat the bugs and poop out fertilizer). And you are correct, there would need to be some level of confirmation about organic-ness, and being raised without off-site feeds.
Just poking at the outside inputs a bit to see where the line should be...
Buying organic fertilizer from the store - ok
Buying organic pelletized chicken manure fertilizer from the store - I presume that's ok as well?
Using organic animal manure/compost brought in from a nearby farm - ?
Using organic animal manure/compost from your own place - only if within 500 feet and can't have imported animal feed
Using "conventional" seeds/starts from the store as long as they aren't GMO - ok
Using all the irrigation you want - ok
Using city water for irrigation - ???
My personal opinion is to keep the requirements for inputs a bit more simple. Since this is trying to appeal to millions of gardeners and show them that it's freaky cheap to get organic food from your garden, keeping it simple and Level 2 might be a good idea.
I'd humbly submit the following rule proposal:
Any site scrounged inputs are fine as long as they're organic.
Any off site inputs are fine as long as seeds/starts are non-gmo and other inputs are organic.
Movie minutes may be preferentially allotted to gardens that more closely align with Paul's ethics.
- total time put in (try to keep this low)
- total money spent (try to keep this low)
- total money saved in groceries (try to keep this high)
Participants are encouraged to use a "ghost acre": a place where mulches and fertilizers are grown, outside of the 200 square feet.
I want to see practices far above organic.
I want to see this done with zero imports from off-site. I wish for the final movie to advocate NOT buying stuff, and NOT risking the import of things that could be toxic.
I read this as no commercial inputs from outside. I think really the only thing that comes from the outside would be seeds?
Mike Haasl wrote:Movie minutes may be preferentially allotted to gardens that more closely align with Paul's ethics.
I'm imagining a lot of it will come down to this - assuming enough people play to give Paul all the choices he'd like. The farther out beyond organic you are, assuming success of some level, the more he'll want to use your stuff. (Along with the other priorities like product divided by work.)
Would ash and biochar be okay if they are also from on-site?
Is doing our own testing on the plots okay? I was thinking about trying 1/3 with our non-meat-food-scrap-compost + ash, 1/3 with ash and 1/3 with no additional base inputs and then going with heavy leaf mulch over all of it.
Mike Haasl wrote:Just poking at the outside inputs a bit to see where the line should be...
Buying organic fertilizer from the store - ok
Buying organic pelletized chicken manure fertilizer from the store - I presume that's ok as well?
Using organic animal manure/compost brought in from a nearby farm - ?
Using organic animal manure/compost from your own place - only if within 500 feet and can't have imported animal feed
Using "conventional" seeds/starts from the store as long as they aren't GMO - ok
Using all the irrigation you want - ok
Using city water for irrigation - ???
My personal opinion is to keep the requirements for inputs a bit more simple. Since this is trying to appeal to millions of gardeners and show them that it's freaky cheap to get organic food from your garden, keeping it simple and Level 2 might be a good idea.
I'd humbly submit the following rule proposal:
Any site scrounged inputs are fine as long as they're organic.
Any off site inputs are fine as long as seeds/starts are non-gmo and other inputs are organic.
Movie minutes may be preferentially allotted to gardens that more closely align with Paul's ethics.
Fertilizer from the store: NO!
Buy seeds that grow into something on a ghost acre and then use that as fertilizer: yes
Buy compost: NO!
Make your own compost: not a big win, but i will allow it
purchased manure: NO!
you use the manure of your own animals and describe to us the care and how the feed is not imported: yes
using certified organic starts: doesn't sound very cheap
using not-organic starts: no
buying seeds: fine, as long as they are not GMO
city water for irrigation: i think you will have better results if you had a barrel of water and you let the city water sit for a day. The barrel can be placed outside of the 200 square feet.
I am grateful for this project as it has so much potential. From what I have read, listened, and watched of your work, Paul, my understanding is that you want anyone and everyone to have a garden at home (best reduction in our carbon footprint after cooling/heating in most climates) yes??. This project can show how one can grow a lot of food with minimal effort in a fairly small area. In my world most folks would start on a patch of grass (which is probably on dirt rather than soil, since lawns ruin soil), and don't have a bunch of leaves or animal bedding to do a mulch-over to turn the old lawn into a readily plant-able area. Almost everyone does have access to cardboard, and a lot of people to wood chips, arbor chips and/or sawdust. To encourage more folk to give this a try (not the trial/movie folk, but folk watching the movie) I'd like to suggest allowing (and even encouraging) in the movie what most folk can do. People who are raising critters and can use bedding and other critter input are probably not the ones that need to be shown how to more easily grow their own food. People who have enough land to use their own leaves to turn a patch of dirt into soil are also not likely the target audience (?).
I fully appreciate the best practices of not bringing input from outside (basic permaculture principle and to know what i'm using is not contaminated), but that would make a 200 ft sq garden a lot more work and take a LOT longer to make it richly productive for the vast majority of folk.
I look forward to reading and watching how this proceeds. Have fun one and all.
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. Which is why I grow in towers, but that does not qualify.
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