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where can I get the grafting drill bit that makes a hole the same shape and size as a pencil?

 
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I'm trying to find that drill bit that is used in pencil grafting.  Where you take a stick the same thickness as a pencil, use a sharpener on it, and then make a hole the same shape.  

I've been wanting to do this for years but can't find the drill bit anymore.  Anyone have one for sale or know where I can buy one?  

Looking at substitutes, step and non-step bits aren't the right angles.  Can't find a regular woodworking taper bit that does the trick either.  countersink are the wrong angle.  Anything else to look at?  

Edit to add:
I wonder if there's confusion as to what "pencil grafting" is.
The hole and the scion match so snugly that there is no need for anything to secure it.  What's more, the angle happens to be the same as a pencil not because it's convenient, but because that's the highest success rate.  It has the most cambian layer contact and enough depth to get the scion to hold in place, without going too deep into the tree, thus decreasing the chance of rot or other issues developing at the core of the tree.
 
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There is some discussion at Pen Turners. Apparently it was sold by Lee Valley for awhile:

Veritas Small Taper Reamer
 
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Jeremy VanGelder wrote:There is some discussion at Pen Turners. Apparently it was sold by Lee Valley for awhile:

Veritas Small Taper Reamer



That's the one I'm looking for.

No longer at Lee Valley

 
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If you use these two tools it would produce a similar result:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/54864-standard-taper-reamers

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/dowel-and-tenon-cutters/54835-veritas-tapered-tenon-cutters

Not quite what you asked for, but perhaps similar enough?
 
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Tim Siemens wrote:If you use these two tools it would produce a similar result:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/drills/54864-standard-taper-reamers

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/dowel-and-tenon-cutters/54835-veritas-tapered-tenon-cutters

Not quite what you asked for, but perhaps similar enough?



Close, but I suspect that the angle is too shallow.  From what I've read, the steep angle of a pencil gets the highest success rate.

Any other ideas?
 
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Rockler Woodworking, Highland Woodworking, maybe Penn State Woodturning
 
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Robert Ray wrote:Rockler Woodworking, Highland Woodworking, maybe Penn State Woodturning



Can't seem to see the grafting bit there.  Is it under a different name?
 
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Look for tapered bit at Rockler. At Penn State take a look at an acrylic bit, some are tapered to prevent tear out in acrylic blanks. https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKADB2764.html
Some CNC router use a tapered bit and might work too. https://www.amazon.com/Akylin-Tapered-Diameter-Endmills-Engraving/dp/B0CCJ6JY1F/ref=sr_1_35?crid=3MUQHAM9GWN2B&keywords=1%2F4+inch+tapered+cnc+bit&qid=1707255299&sprefix=1%2F4+inch+tapered+cnc+bit%2Caps%2C257&sr=8-35
they come in different angles and dia.
If you find a tapered bit you like you could probably easily create a sharpener to mimic the taper of your bit. Use a piece of hardwood, drill with the bit and make a sharpener like a old school pencil sharpener.
 
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expanding on the story.  We've been seeking this drill bit for years now and have several dozen woodworking bits.   None of them work for drill grafting.  So I've got years of back-frustration from all these shops telling me "yeh, yeh, it's fine, it's the same, don't worry, no we don't accept returns."  Thus, I really want to make sure this is exactly the same as a pencil.  It needs to be a perfect fit.

The drafting drill bits were perfect because the angle of the pencil maximised cambium contact while minimising the depth of the hole.  This is why we've been wanting to try it, as an easier way to graft onto older trees.  It's supposed to have one of the highest success rates of any grafting method, but alas, the bit hasn't been available in north America for some time.

The drill bits are still made and used in parts of Russia but getting them here seems to be a problem.

We can make what we have do, but the success rate would be a lot lower and I might as well graft old style.  I just wanted to give it one last try to find the bit we are looking for.  


For reference, a normal pencil sharpens at a 20 degree angle.  
My math isn't good so, is "4.8 degree single side" from the Tapered Ball Nose Spiral Router Bit the same angle?

 
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This could be dangerous so wear plenty of safety equipment. But take a HSS drill bit of the appropriate size, chuck in you drill. Then turn on a bench mounted grinding wheel. Now reshape the bit to the desired shape.

I would probably try to setup an arm to hold the drill at a fixed angle and VERY slowly bring it into the doing grinding wheel.

If this works, you will ruin the temper on the bit so you may want to heat it with a torch and quench it to attempt to reestablish the harden surface. But for grafting you are drilling in to soft outer layers of a live plant so you should not have much trouble with the reshaped bit getting dull.
 
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An 8mm glass bit, the style that looks like a spear point might be easier to reshape to a pencil point profile.
 
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I'm thinking you're over complicating it. We had mice girdle 150 trees in the orchard over the winter one year.

My partner thought we had to pull them and plant new. I pointed out to him people had been grafting to save girdled trees for decades and taking that approach would save us the five years it would have taken for the trees to mature and START to produce.

In the end, we bought a bunch of rootstock, planted them around the tree every 120 degrees (so three rootstalks) and grafted the tops just above the girdle point. We never lost one of the trees and they all produced well.

Grafting, essentially, just required splitting the bark on the tree, stripping the rootstalk top, then sticking the two together and sealing the wound against infection by bugs and such (paint).

Here, you could use a cheap step drill bit from Harbor Freight and go from there.
 
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I have one! Yes, it came from Lee Valley several years ago. I would be happy to mail it to you, but don't want to share my address with the Whole World!
 
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Somewhere I also have one of Lee Valley's Veritas tapered drills ("plugger" they called it) that was sold along with a crank-style pencil sharpener for grafting. It's too bad they quit making them, but my attempt to graft with it wasn't successful. However, I have no other grafting experience, so my technique or timing might have been at fault. The suggestion of a (narrow) step drill sounds like it might work as a substitute. Another possibility is a fluted bridge pin reamer that luthiers use on guitar bridges.
 
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Why not make what you want?  Take a split tip bit and grind it to the shape you want.  Best if if you have access to a lathe and a grinder.  Drill press and grinder 2nd best.  Drill and grinder 3rd best.

Went by an article on doing this differently.  They drilled a short straight hole.  Then slightly tapered the outer edge of the hole.  They had a cutter that did the other half but pointed out this could be done with a knife just building the matching piece.
 
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https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=stepless%20drill%20bit
 
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Try tapered countersink bits. They come in different sizes. You could adapt the graft to match, says my very experienced carpenter hubby.
 
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Why not use a tap and dye set? Thread the best fitting dye on the scion. Then drill and tap root stock or tree with matching tap. Screw scion in and seal. This should make a strong junction and work for various sizes. If anyone tries this, please please let me know if it works?

Thank you         Larry Lohr recycler2547@ Gmail.com
 
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Candace Williams wrote:Try tapered countersink bits. They come in different sizes. You could adapt the graft to match, says my very experienced carpenter hubby.


Countersink bits have far too wide an angle for this purpose. For grafting, a fairly long taper is needed so that the scion can be wedged snugly and stay in place.
 
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John Suavecito wrote:My friends and I have been grafting for 25 years and we just use knives.

John S
PDX OR



sounds like a great topic for a new thread.

I've been grafting and budding with a knife since I was extremely young.  It's lovely when your hands work.  But as I age, I'm looking to experiment with different methods.  
 
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Irene Bensinger wrote:I have one! Yes, it came from Lee Valley several years ago. I would be happy to mail it to you, but don't want to share my address with the Whole World!



That's wonderful.  I'll send you a PM.  
 
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r ranson wrote:

Tim Siemens wrote:

Close, but I suspect that the angle is too shallow.  From what I've read, the steep angle of a pencil gets the highest success rate.

Any other ideas?



I’d say you’re right. Steeper angle means more contact between the cambium

 
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r ranson wrote:

Irene Bensinger wrote:I have one! Yes, it came from Lee Valley several years ago. I would be happy to mail it to you, but don't want to share my address with the Whole World!



That's wonderful.  I'll send you a PM.  

If this doesn't work, email me. I "think" we've got a set ( a cone shaped outside drill bit and the matching inside drill bit) that came from Lee Valley years ago. Not willing to sell, but you're close enough that loaning would work. I even "think" I know which box it's in, but checking would require excavation of multiple layers.

Pencils do come in more than one size, and Hubby has another tool which is very similar to what I think you're looking for, but not sure if any of the sizes he has match the specific pencil size you're looking for.

I'd also be very interested if you get this system to work on some older trees - I've got an unproductive pear tree that I'd love to try grafting, and I've got access to some trees for potential donor material. My humans, my geese and my ducks far prefer apples to pears, so it's never been a priority to try again, and my first amateur attempts were a total bust. I took a lesson 2 years ago on bud grafting, and that worked better, but I don't know yet if the bud grafts I tried on my own took or not. I've been told that having both the donor tree and the recipient tree *really* well hydrated before trying gives major improvement in success probability, and that's not always easy in our climate.
 
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Jay,

On the older trees,  if you prune them back heavy you can do a Bark Graft on larger limbs (although the one time I tried it it didn’t work… but there were any number of possible errors I made)….. and it if fails, the new growth that the pruning produces might restart production…. And then again if you want to graft you can always graft to the 1 year old new growth that develop after a heavy prune
 
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Just wondering what an exacto blade in a drill would do.  Maybe just the exacto blade in the exacto handle might be safer.  I haven't measured, it just looks like it might be close.


3 hours later I've had time to think about it.  My drill has a 3 point chuck and an exacto blade is 2 sided.  Maybe put the exacto knife in the drill.  But, that doesn't sound very safe either.
 
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Here’s a pretty good video on stump grafting an old pear.

 
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We did that when the feller mistook a plum for a Douglas fir.  Never had it fail on stone (prunis) fruit.  But it does require cutting off the trunk before we know the graft has taken hold... or for that matter,  before we graft.

It would make a good video for a new thread on grafting styles.

What I'm looking for is where to get the bit for one specific type of grafting - pencil grafting.

I've got a line on one, but would love to hear if anyone sees this bit available anywhere.  
 
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Phil Swindler wrote:Just wondering what an exacto blade in a drill would do.  Maybe just the exacto blade in the exacto handle might be safer.  I haven't measured, it just looks like it might be close.



I'm trying to get my head around this one.  Exacto blades are usually high carbon and thin, so I cannot see how to reinforce it to hold up to drilling.  

But also, having the blade sideways would mash up instead of cutting the wood of the hole, damaging the cambium layer, thus making the graft less likely to take.




 
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r ranson wrote:

Phil Swindler wrote:Just wondering what an exacto blade in a drill would do.  Maybe just the exacto blade in the exacto handle might be safer.  I haven't measured, it just looks like it might be close.



I'm trying to get my head around this one.  Exacto blades are usually high carbon and thin, so I cannot see how to reinforce it to hold up to drilling.  

But also, having the blade sideways would mash up instead of cutting the wood of the hole, damaging the cambium layer, thus making the graft less likely to take.






I've had time to think about it.  You are absolutely right.  I was just throwing an idea out there earlier.
 
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I couldn't find any available, but I found pics of what I think you want. I may have also found the angle (kinda) in case you need to try grinding your own. This site says:

When you stick your pencil into the sharpener and crank it with the handle on its other side, you’re setting into motion two cylindrical cutting blades.  These two blades are positioned into opposing 23-degree angles to cut your pencil into a conical shape.



I take it to mean 23° off the axis of the cylinder meaning the triangular cross section of the sharpened part has 67° base angles and a 46° point, but it could mean 23° measured another way.
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T Melville wrote:I couldn't find any available, but I found pics of what I think you want.


Yes, that's exactly what was also (later?) sold with a pencil sharpener for plug grafting. I guess it didn't sell well enough to continue manufacturing. A different style of screw-hiding plug and corresponding cutter are standard now.
 
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T Melville wrote:
I take it to mean 23° off the axis of the cylinder meaning the triangular cross section of the sharpened part has 67° base angles and a 46° point, but it could mean 23° measured another way.


It looks like a 23° included angle, which is about as wide as you could go without having a scion easily loosen. I noticed that the bit was made in France, so that might still be a source.
 
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I just ordered a router bit that I hope will work.
I am intrigued by the idea of grafting a tree with it's own branches.
An acquaintance just showed me how he took his six foot tall pepper plant, cut it down to two feet and then grafted the chopped off bits back onto the plant.
Doing something similar with  a tree is very appealing.
 
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There certainly seems to be a lot of interest in this type of grafting. Since Veritas is not making the tool anymore what would a repalcement tool look like? The original "Plugger"'s bit looks more like a reamer to me than an actual drill bit or milling tool with spiralling cutters. A tool company that sells bits and reamers takes a trip for me if I can't find it online. I will fiddle with it today and see if I can'r identify a replacement with the correct angle. Not everybody has a nice shop and can just make tooling. I'm guessing you want a stubby bit like the original?
 
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I took my little pencil sharpener over to the hobby store next door. I was going to look at his dremel bits.  He had two model car reaming tools made of aluminum 0-14mm and 0-13mm. The 0-14 mm was a match for my pencil sharpener taper. Are all hand held sharpeners the same? They were his personal ones but I found one similar on Amazon. the fact that it was small enough to fit in my pocket and had a cap for the pointy bits looked like it would be perfect for pocket field use. We tried it on a piece of Basswood and it created a nice tapered hole. On Ebay and Amazon it apears there are some that have one cutting edge and some that have more. His were single edged.
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I have found similar reamers, mostly for musical instrument making, as Rob but none that attach to a power drill. They seem to be of the hand variety which I would assume would be physically demanding and time consuming compared to the plugger. I am surprised they don't have 'power' reamers of the same pitch as readily advertised.

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I looked at luthier reamers but the ones that I had access to were too steep of an angle.
 
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I wonder what sort of a tang is underneath the case in Robert Ray's picture. A flat tang like most knives would have, or some sort of round tang??? Unfortunately, one would have to buy one and probably destroy it to find out!

Do you think there's any way one could get that case into a drill chuck? I think the point of the OP is that she wants to be able to use it in a drill, not just that it be the perfect size.
 
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