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Ld Waite
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I would like to sit or stand in front of the thermal mass. A wall instead of a bench.

I'm thinking of using a 4" cast Dragon Heater core.
rmhex1.jpg
[Thumbnail for rmhex1.jpg]
 
allen lumley
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Ld Waite : Welcome to Permies ! There is a lot of good information to be found here at the Rocket Stoves forum/threads, also Woodstoves and The Cob forum/threads .

I would love to follow your transition from planing/purchase, additional materials selection, thru your build (with video and lots of pictures ), and of course your 1st burn,
Please
Please
please keep us advised at every step! If you are willing to share your approximate location here at Permies, I'm sure that you will get lots of offers of help, or the offer of
the location and cost of supplies in your area. you could announce it here or add it to your profile, so people are reminded every time you add to your thread.

When I was selling hardware we figured friction loss in one elbow as being Equal to the friction loss in one length of stovepipe, - 30'' , Ernie Wisner likes to figure one
Elbow as equal to two lengths of stove pipe, 5'. The correct ratio for 4'' pipe needs to be checked, also the total number of feet of horizontal pipe you can run thru your
Thermal Mass, Elbows figured separately, and then added in and Totaled. Always share your plans, and any ANY changes with the people at Dragon heaters !

There is no doubt in my mind that Dragon Heaters as a Brand New company wants their product to be a great initial success. However they can and should only advise
you on your build, and offer a limited warrantee as they can't be responsible for your building choices .

Up until this offering from Dragon Heaters, there were only a few 4'' rocket stove Mass Heaters that actually worked, let alone lived up to expectations, I would listen
closely to the answers you get from them and be really conservative with your build (this is your 1st rocket stove?)!

For the good of the craft! Be safe, keep warm, PYRO magically - Big AL
 
Ld Waite
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Hi Al,

Thanks for the info.

I'm western finger lakes region.

I understand the 4" have problems. I only have 750 sf of work shop to heat. But I'm not opposed to going 6".

I'm wondering about the vertical heat storage. Level vs sloped pipe.

Lynn
 
Satamax Antone
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LD, if i may say,.

I would use an horizontal batch rocket to power a wall, and if the wall is not built, i would may be look into building it as a bell, instead of using pipes, as it would be easier on friction, and you could get better results.

 
allen lumley
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Satamax A : O.K. , I'll bite, what do you mean ? Thanks in advance, For the good of the craft ! PYROmagic!!! ,Big AL
 
Ld Waite
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Ok, hollow mass wall, instead of pipes through the mass. I like it.

 
Sandy Mathieu
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The 4" dragon burners work great. The precast can not be compared a rocket heater built with bricks. But I also strongly agree that chambers (bells) rather than a flue approach will work much better. Less drag and less mass needed to do the same thing.

With a flue approach the hot and cold gases are constantly mixed, with chambers they have a chance to separate and thus only the cooler gases are pulled out, providing better heat transfer.
 
Satamax Antone
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allen lumley wrote:Satamax A : O.K. , I'll bite, what do you mean ? Thanks in advance, For the good of the craft ! PYROmagic!!! ,Big AL


Well, Al, read this whole thread if you havent. http://donkey32.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=experiment&action=display&thread=511

Well, you might know that, but i post it anyway.

A bell, is a hollow chamber into which the hot gasses raise, and colder ones go down, you have inlet and exhaust at the bottom exhausting the cold gasses, instead of pipes, thus giving far less friction, and a better flow.

In that above thread, i was sugesting of using pozzolan chimney elements to make the barrel/bell of an horizontal batch rocket. Along the types of drawing on this page.

http://donkey32.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=experiment&action=display&thread=511&page=8

But a whole empty wall could be built like this. With a fair bit of mass, and even the chimney integrated in it. And the horizontal batch rocket integrated in it also, like a modern stove. I have plenty of ideas of this sort, but have no place to put them into reality. LD, if you could give us a picture, i could may be sugest something.

Best regards.

Max.
 
allen lumley
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S.A. : o.k., given a bell works like the interface between a heat riser and barrel-combination, I have yet to see a visual picture that actually shows how
this occurs, I am more than willing to take this on faith, based on the number of converts, but I must have been asleep behind the door when pozzolan
chimneys were described ! Please understand that even though my practical understanding of thermo-god-damn-ics, tho grounded in 40 years of practical
experience has been dimmed by a T.raumatic B.rain I.njury !

If given the facts clearly, with simple repetition, I find that I can usually grasp the merely blatantly obvious quite clearly, however the usual leaps of under-
standing that mark most modern homo sapiens is no longer in my wheelhouse, however, I do think it is fair to say that if you can not communicate something
that you understand at the intuitive level, you do not truly have a good grasp on the subject!

Again, I freely admit that I have not given proper effort in understanding the horizontal feed shtik, simply accepting that it works, with a certain number of
unknown drawbacks as compared with the tried and true J- Tube.

While this may seem much like an unearned form of corporal punishment , Again i challenge you to show me " The Light " that I might exchange a wandering,
questioning faith with the brilliant path of the enlightened Cognenzee !

For the good of the Craft! be safe, be warm, PYRO magically BIG AL
 
Satamax Antone
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Al, i don't know much bout the technicities, all i know is this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM-GbmlVGXo
 
Peter van den Berg
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Allen,
The tech-nice-ties of the bell system were described by a Russian professor long before we were born. See this site. We are not used to this kind of heat extraction and it is little known in the western world but it's there nevertheless.

The development of the batch box rocket is very recent, from last year only, but for sure not a hoax. The Next Generation Wood Stove Design Challenge will be at the National Mall this November and two of the finalists' stoves are based on this very technology. One of those, the experimental stove of Dragon Heaters sports the bell approach as well.

Please klick the links given by Max and read it all, you might learn something new.
See these video clips how the thing performs, especially the small computer display which read 250 ppm CO at some point. This is very low for a normal woodburning device running at full bore, including the J-tube rocket mass heater.



 
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