A/C just went out, 3rd consecutive summer

We're in south central TX.  We could probably live without heating, but A/C here is a must.  We're on a fixed income and cannot afford to replace the forced air HVAC unit for $17,000.  I know there are small units usually mounted high on the wall.  Are there other affordable options?

We have a couple window units, but not enough to cool the house.  Ceiling fans in most rooms, and a couple small desk fans.  We also run 3 dehumidifiers constantly.  It is very very humid here.  

We are retired, in our mid-60s.  My husband is not permie minded nor is he allowed to play with tools.

The small units are referred to as Mini Splits.  they are more economical if you are cooling small areas; but are more efficient than the older window units (as I have been told).  Whole house units are expensive.  $17k sounds really expensive.  I believe a family member in Houston swapped out a 3 ton unit for about $5k a while back.  I have not seen prices in the market in a few years though.

How big a place are you trying to A/C?  I know A/C is essential and can't be turned off for a long period in that part of the world.  However, you might be able to 'zone' a large house where the a/c in non used rooms run at night to eliminate moisture; and only run the rooms needed during the heat of the day.

If you can find a Goodman or Daikin dealer; ask them if they could get you a better deal on a second.  The warehouse often bumps units.  If it is cosmetic they will sell to dealers at a discount before they write the entire unit off the books.  It is worth asking your A/C service person about it.

Bonnie,  I hope you will find a quick fix for your AC unit.

I hope that I'm not treading onto bad ground here, but seriously, tool probation???  I mean jeez Louise like how long?  Days, weeks, this month, please don't tell us that it's for  ---  no, how horrible, LIFE???

I hope that you will soon have a cooled house again.


Peace

I'm guessing you've done all the simple stuff, like window coverings, shading the east and west sides of the house with vegetation, and opening all the windows up on cool nights (when you get them, anyway). The split system is probably your best option. They're way more efficient than old-school central units, partly because of the more modern compressor and refrigerant combos, but also because you aren't losing energy cooling leaky ductwork. Best to have an experienced and qualified person install it, so that takes care of the tool issue.

Thoughts…

Additional window units could be a temporary solution, at least in part.  They can also be installed through an exterior wall to save window space. Tutorials on youtube.com. While not as efficient, they are less expensive to purchase and install.  Buying solar panels are one way to offset the energy use, and can also help provide shade.

If you have windows where sun streams in, shade those areas with light-colored materials, preferably on the outside, or at least air-sealed to the inside, even it is just cardboard and tape. Insulate any areas with low insulation, including windows.

Generally dehumidifiers put heat into the room instead of outside like an a/c. So I think an air conditioner will be more energy efficient , and it will dehumidify especially on low fan speed.

If possible, consider only cooling some of the most used rooms, and let some other rooms run warmer, especially on hot days.

Stock-up on cool clothing, cold drinks, ice cube trays or an ice maker.  Search out other places to go to stay cool on hot days.

Bonnie Kuhlman wrote:We're in south central TX.  We could probably live without heating, but A/C here is a must.  We're on a fixed income and cannot afford to replace the forced air HVAC unit for $17,000.  I know there are small units usually mounted high on the wall.  Are there other affordable options?

We have a couple window units, but not enough to cool the house.  Ceiling fans in most rooms, and a couple small desk fans.  We also run 3 dehumidifiers constantly.  It is very very humid here.  

We are retired, in our mid-60s.  My husband is not permie minded nor is he allowed to play with tools.

I would strongly suggest getting a second and third opinion. $17000 is excessive. Good luck on your hunt. Mini splits work best for room by room applications.
Cheers,  David

I agree with David, $17000.00 sounds quite high. That said, I have no idea how many sq ft you are cooling nor how much insulation you have.   My wife has multiple serious health issues; we have central air.   We also have 3 window units for back up in case the central breaks down. One is permanently mounted in the bedroom wall.  One is permanently mounted in the basement. The other can be popped in a window as needed.

We considered how much of the house really needs cooling.  The three units cost us about $450.00 total.   This system has worked well for weeks in hit/ humid weather until a repair on our central can be done.

Those dehumidifiers are adding alot of heat to the house and over loading the AC units, It's too hot to run dehumidifiers.

Reduce Heat Source
Outside Clothes Dryers
Outside Showers
Outside cooking in a instapot/onepot
Remove Dehumidifiers
Grow some Vines/Plants to shade the walls/etc
Seal the house from air infiltration.

Install a ERV
This will bring in fresh air but also dehumidify it and chill it with the stale air that is going out

Mini-Split AC
Install a 4-ton mini-split system for alot less, $5000
there might be federal and state programs for "heating" and cooling with a heatpump/mini-split to heat/cool your house.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/MR-Cool-DIY-Multi-Zone-Mini-Split-Systems-31341000
The Mr-Cool mini-split AC units comes pre-charged and so you don't need an actual AC person to come out and install. Just a regular $15/hr handyman. to left up heavy stuff. https://youtu.be/zvFKD95z7IM?si=V5sATnxVctNlzKIk

AC Sizing
Can you tell us what size ac unit you currently have? Maybe you need to add an extra ton, due to lifestyle changes?

AC Demands/Maintenance
How ofter are the coiled cleaned, do you use a filter are those being changed out every 3 months due to the extra dust? Assuming that the AC unit used to work properly before the past 3 years? What has changed, do you now stay home more now and cook more? Do you now have a dog and leave the doors open more often? Is there a "new hole in the wall" letting in more hot air? Did you cut down a tree that used to shade the house. Do you have the AC guy come out and top off the refridgerant in the AC? Did you remove the air filter in the air handler and now the dust is clogging the fancoil in there?

Malfunction Clarification
Is it the AC that is failing or is it the blower? Is it the outside unit or the inside unit? Is it failing due to a shorts? Has the AC guy changed out the controller board the past 3years?

Price Quote Clarification
At the very least ask the contractor for an itemized list for that $17,000 price tag with material and labor seperated. Will all the walls be re-insulated? Will there be all new ducting? Will it be a new geo-thermal heat-pump system? Will it be a new system with zero refridgerant going into the house and instead it will be chilled water?

Grants, No Interest Loans, etc
There are non-profits that might do the labor for free if you buy the material and or there are senior programs that will help, have you checked into any of these programs. I see a $10,000 grant
https://www.homelight.com/blog/elderly-assistance-for-home-repairs-in-texas/
https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/single-family-housing-programs/single-family-housing-repair-loans-grants-5

S Bengi wrote:Those dehumidifiers is adding alot of heat to the house and over loading the AC units, It's too hot to run dehumidifiers.

Reduce Heat Source
Outside Clothes Dryers
Outside Showers
Outside cookiing in a instapot/onepot
Remove Dehumidifiers
Grow some Vines/Plants to shade the walls/etc
Seal the house from air infiltration.

Install a ERV
This will bring in fresh air but also dehumidify it and chill it with the stale air that is going out

Mini-Split AC
Install a mini-split system for alot less, $5000
there might be federal and state programs for heating a heatpump/mini-split to heat/cool your house.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/MR-Cool-DIY-Multi-Zone-Mini-Split-Systems-31341000

S Bengi said a mouthful.  

The most important one is you are paying to heat your house with the dehumidfier.  It makes the house far hotter.  In my climate we run swamp coolers that takes outside air and cools it by evaporating water.  The phase change from liquid to air absorbs large quantities of heat from the air thus cooling the air.  Well in your case you are doing the reverse taking gaseous water and making liquid so if the humidifer doesn't have a mechanism to carry the heat out adds large quantities of  heat to your air.(most dehumidfiers do NOT have a mechanism for heat removal as then they would be air conditioners)  Worse yet they are relatively inefficient so the energy needed to make this happen also ends up heating air too.  

Given your description of needing multiple dehumidifiers I am going to guess your house is poorly insulated and poorly sealed?  If this is the case likely and ERV would be wasted effort.  Now if your house is tight and well insulated it might get you gain.  If poorly insulated and sealed fixing that might be one of the most cost effective things you can do to fix things.

Given your description you might find a window air conditioner more efficient if you have a good place to put it.  Location should be shaded during the hot part of the day, have good air flow.  My reasoning is this.  If your house is poorly insulated and sealed the lower insulation value of the air conditioner itself matters less.  Mini splits get much of their efficiency gains thru not creating heat leaks into the house and by having larger outdoor radiators to get rid of the heat.  But if your house leaks anyway the heat gains thru the unit matter far less.  But the one thing an window air conditioner does is runs the condensate to the outside where the fan splashes it on the condenser thus re evaporating some of that water making it more efficient.  So far as I know there are no mini splits that do this.  Now if I am hot and super humid, rare in my area, I know a window air conditioner puts more water outside than the fan splash will get rid of meaning it still drips to 2 to 4 gallons per day.  If you can route this condensate water to the right location this might keep a shrub alive that keeps sunlight and thus heat off your wall.  Gains are small but a percent here and a percent there can still add up if you do enough of them.  Even if it simply reduces water needs it is a gain.

So now what about more permies type options.

1.  Greenery to shade the building from direct heat.
2. insulate and seal.
3.  change your paint color to white or light colors including painting the roof white.
4.  Here is another possible solution geothermal cooling.  Will only work in areas with cool soil temps that are diggable.
     
5. and here are 2 video covering another option  Will do air conditioning poorly but is a solar powered dehumidifier.  The solar panels and other stuff here can also shade the building providing more indirect cooling too.
   
   
Now personally I think the dream system would combine 4 and 5 into a single system.  Better yet it might heat household hot water too if combined with more systems.

Jack Edmondson wrote:The small units are referred to as Mini Splits.  they are more economical if you are cooling small areas; but are more efficient than the older window units (as I have been told).  Whole house units are expensive.  $17k sounds really expensive.  I believe a family member in Houston swapped out a 3 ton unit for about $5k a while back.  I have not seen prices in the market in a few years though.

How big a place are you trying to A/C?  I know A/C is essential and can't be turned off for a long period in that part of the world.  However, you might be able to 'zone' a large house where the a/c in non used rooms run at night to eliminate moisture; and only run the rooms needed during the heat of the day.

If you can find a Goodman or Daikin dealer; ask them if they could get you a better deal on a second.  The warehouse often bumps units.  If it is cosmetic they will sell to dealers at a discount before they write the entire unit off the books.  It is worth asking your A/C service person about it.

Jack, thank you for all your advice!  I thought $17K sounded high, but I can't convince my husband of that.  $5K would be more doable.  

The house is a little over 1800 sq. ft.  Our utility bills are just as high as they were in our previous house that was 3000 sq. ft.  There are a few more items to try to seal off leaks - door weather stripping, fire place.  

If we need to replace the A/C, I will definitely look for a Goodman or Daikin dealer and ask about seconds.  

Deane Adams wrote:Bonnie,  I hope you will find a quick fix for your AC unit.

I hope that I'm not treading onto bad ground here, but seriously, tool probation???  I mean jeez Louise like how long?  Days, weeks, this month, please don't tell us that it's for  ---  no, how horrible, LIFE???


Peace

Thanks Deane.  I was out of town for the weekend.  It was repaired on Friday, but the tech said it may not last long.  

Serious.  I wish it wasn't so, and yes, it's for life.  Seriously, he doesn't like fixing things; he'd rather replace them.  He usually causes more harm than good (you can read that on SO many levels).  It is what it is.  

Bonnie, thanks for making me laugh, we all can use more laughter in our lives.

I hope your AC unit will last, at least for this season.


Peace

S Bengi wrote:Those dehumidifiers are adding alot of heat to the house and over loading the AC units, It's too hot to run dehumidifiers.

Reduce Heat Source
Outside Clothes Dryers
Outside Showers
Outside cooking in a instapot/onepot
Remove Dehumidifiers
Grow some Vines/Plants to shade the walls/etc
Seal the house from air infiltration.

Install a ERV
This will bring in fresh air but also dehumidify it and chill it with the stale air that is going out

Mini-Split AC
Install a 4-ton mini-split system for alot less, $5000
there might be federal and state programs for "heating" and cooling with a heatpump/mini-split to heat/cool your house.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/MR-Cool-DIY-Multi-Zone-Mini-Split-Systems-31341000
The Mr-Cool mini-split AC units comes pre-charged and so you don't need an actual AC person to come out and install. Just a regular $15/hr handyman. to left up heavy stuff. https://youtu.be/zvFKD95z7IM?si=V5sATnxVctNlzKIk

AC Sizing
Can you tell us what size ac unit you currently have? Maybe you need to add an extra ton, due to lifestyle changes?

AC Demands/Maintenance
How ofter are the coiled cleaned, do you use a filter are those being changed out every 3 months due to the extra dust? Assuming that the AC unit used to work properly before the past 3 years? What has changed, do you now stay home more now and cook more? Do you now have a dog and leave the doors open more often? Is there a "new hole in the wall" letting in more hot air? Did you cut down a tree that used to shade the house. Do you have the AC guy come out and top off the refridgerant in the AC? Did you remove the air filter in the air handler and now the dust is clogging the fancoil in there?

Malfunction Clarification
Is it the AC that is failing or is it the blower? Is it the outside unit or the inside unit? Is it failing due to a shorts? Has the AC guy changed out the controller board the past 3years?

Price Quote Clarification
At the very least ask the contractor for an itemized list for that $17,000 price tag with material and labor seperated. Will all the walls be re-insulated? Will there be all new ducting? Will it be a new geo-thermal heat-pump system? Will it be a new system with zero refridgerant going into the house and instead it will be chilled water?

Grants, No Interest Loans, etc
There are non-profits that might do the labor for free if you buy the material and or there are senior programs that will help, have you checked into any of these programs. I see a $10,000 grant
https://www.homelight.com/blog/elderly-assistance-for-home-repairs-in-texas/
https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/single-family-housing-programs/single-family-housing-repair-loans-grants-5

S Bengi, thank you!

I know the dehumidifiers are adding heat, but I believe thy are necessary, at least for now since we are having to empty them at least twice a day - that's a lot of water they are removing.  

I do dry most clothes outside, and have considered cooking outside.  We have large, shady pecan trees on the east, north, and west sides of the house.  Sealing is on the list, and I believe this house is a sieve.

What is an ERV?

I will look at the links and the programs you sent.  Thank you, again for the info about those and mini-split options.

We bought this property 2.5 yrs ago from a couple of guys who were flipping it.  I knew there could be some issues that we didn't find.  Last year, we had someone blow 8" of insulation into the attic.  Previous insulation was almost non-existent, and in one section that was an add-on, there was NO insulation.  We also had an attic fan installed, and put a 'box' insulation in the attic stairs.  

The repairman fixed something in the outside unit.  I wasn't here so I don't know what it was.  The blower/fan was previously working, it just wasn't cooling.

I will definitely ask for an itemized list if we need to have the unit replaced, as well as the other items you mentioned.  I just found out they are replacing all the coolant within the next year with some new poison that will not be compatible with existing systems.

C. Letellier wrote:
S Bengi said a mouthful.  

The most important one is you are paying to heat your house with the dehumidfier.  It makes the house far hotter.  In my climate we run swamp coolers that takes outside air and cools it by evaporating water.  The phase change from liquid to air absorbs large quantities of heat from the air thus cooling the air.  Well in your case you are doing the reverse taking gaseous water and making liquid so if the humidifer doesn't have a mechanism to carry the heat out adds large quantities of  heat to your air.(most dehumidfiers do NOT have a mechanism for heat removal as then they would be air conditioners)  Worse yet they are relatively inefficient so the energy needed to make this happen also ends up heating air too.  

Given your description of needing multiple dehumidifiers I am going to guess your house is poorly insulated and poorly sealed?  If this is the case likely and ERV would be wasted effort.  Now if your house is tight and well insulated it might get you gain.  If poorly insulated and sealed fixing that might be one of the most cost effective things you can do to fix things.

Given your description you might find a window air conditioner more efficient if you have a good place to put it.  Location should be shaded during the hot part of the day, have good air flow.  My reasoning is this.  If your house is poorly insulated and sealed the lower insulation value of the air conditioner itself matters less.  Mini splits get much of their efficiency gains thru not creating heat leaks into the house and by having larger outdoor radiators to get rid of the heat.  But if your house leaks anyway the heat gains thru the unit matter far less.  But the one thing an window air conditioner does is runs the condensate to the outside where the fan splashes it on the condenser thus re evaporating some of that water making it more efficient.  So far as I know there are no mini splits that do this.  Now if I am hot and super humid, rare in my area, I know a window air conditioner puts more water outside than the fan splash will get rid of meaning it still drips to 2 to 4 gallons per day.  If you can route this condensate water to the right location this might keep a shrub alive that keeps sunlight and thus heat off your wall.  Gains are small but a percent here and a percent there can still add up if you do enough of them.  Even if it simply reduces water needs it is a gain.

So now what about more permies type options.

1.  Greenery to shade the building from direct heat.
2. insulate and seal.
3.  change your paint color to white or light colors including painting the roof white.
4.  Here is another possible solution geothermal cooling.  Will only work in areas with cool soil temps that are diggable.
     

5. and here are 2 video covering another option  Will do air conditioning poorly but is a solar powered dehumidifier.  The solar panels and other stuff here can also shade the building providing more indirect cooling too.
   

   

Now personally I think the dream system would combine 4 and 5 into a single system.  Better yet it might heat household hot water too if combined with more systems.

 
C., I am very thankful for all the help and information.  I just wrote a lengthy reply and the computer ate it.  I still have some questions and will reply here later.  For now, the A/C is repaired but may not last.  Please forgive me, I had to be out of town twice the past two weeks, and also had a family medical emergency.  

You may want to look into saddle ac units.

Some are just window units in a new form.  But some are minisplits that also offer heating built into the saddle shape.

Humidity
I agree with you that you do need to do something with all that humidity in the house. Did you know that a AC window unit dehumidifies 5gallons of water from your house. I recommend using a window unit as your dehumidifier in texas because it send both the extra water and heat outside and give you alot less work, unlike a regular dehumidifer that leave all the extra heat inside the house, and probably requires you to have to pickup and dump the collected water.  If you run the fan on low it dehumifies even better than when you have the fan on high because it has even more "contac" time to dry the air. I wonder if you have the dehumidifier running all summer long or only while the AC is broken?

AC Load Balancing
If you spend most of your time in say the activity room, I recommend putting a window unit in there and setting the temp to 70F and then for the rest of the house set the temp to say 80F via the big centra air AC. That would help you control the humidity/temp and also give the big AC unit a little break. I am also here wondering if the AC is always on vs the usual duty cycle of being on for only 10hrs out of the 24hours in a day aka 33% duty cycle.

ERV = Energy Recovery Ventilation
You can think of this as a bathroom vent that is always running on low, that pushes out stale air and brings in fresh air, but the fresh air that they bring in is already pre-tempered/chilled by the outgoing air. They also filter the incoming air too, which is nice in dusty/smokey/pollen filled areas. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Fantech-FIT70E-SE-Series-Energy-Recovery-Ventilator-4-Side-Ports-up-to-1200-Sq-Ft

HVAC Technician
Not too sure if you are already doing this but if not, I recommend scheduling the AC guy to come in at the start of the season and do this usual replacement/etc for say $250 vs waiting until it breaks and then be forced to pay a ASAP/emergency pricing of $600, while going days/week without AC.