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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
Is there any merit to spreading decomposed granite or crushed concrete on a lawn? Or would it shade the lawn if applied thickly enough to amend pH?
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"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
There's thorium in granite. Enough to detect, but not enough to be a certifiable danger. Certainly not as much as you'd find in lantern mantles. But it does give a lot of people the willies...seriously, though, if you're looking to have the willies, you can always find something. For example, there's also some thorium in limestone, but usually more uranium.
Granite has been used as a source of K and of "trace minerals" in general for soil mixes. Being high in silica, it's a sink for lime, and so granite-based soils tend to be acidic.
Concrete is made using lime. It tends to be noticeably basic. There are so many options in formulating it that you'd have to decide on a case-by-case basis, but structures that are being demolished now are unlikely to have been built with fly ash, and trace mineral content will probably vary more based on what aggregate was used.
Both are definitely available as powder, or with a texture like coarse sand or very fine gravel. Crushed concrete is sometimes available for free through Craigslist, in a variety of sizes.
"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
I'm all about the ivory tower science.
Good to hear from someone who's used the stuff!
I know in ancient South America, potsherds were used as a soil amendment, and I think one of the major purposes was to prevent compaction.
If you don't mind me asking, how do fines work to prevent compaction? I'm used to "fines" being particles tens of nanometers across, but an aggregates person might use the term a lot differently than a ceramist like myself. A good pozzolan might bind to soil and create a good crumb structure, but I wouldn't expect that to be foolproof or permanent, so I'm guessing there are some visible particles in the material you're using.
"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
TCLynx
[url]http://www.tclynx.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.permies.com/permaculture-images/2692_740/Avitar.jpg[/img]
Thanks TC. Does seem to only be the lowest leaves. I am oppostie to you on pH but have found a local supplier of Elemental Sulphur which I might use around certain plants if they get back to me. Just wrote them. My iceberg roses are not giving many blooms. Maybe needs pH amendment.TCLynx wrote:
chelle,
The yellowing of lower leaves is more often a sign of running out of Nitrogen. It is the upper new leaves that tend to Yellow due to pH lock of of things like Iron. But with lower leaves on the Moringa yellowing, it seems to me that most of the lower leaves on mine did yellow some, it may be kinda natural to loose the bottom leaves. My soil is sand and relatively acidic from the high amount of rainfall we get though too much irrigation water from the limestone aquifer can swing things up here.
How do you sort out iron lock-out? I see in my "lasagna" beds that most everything grows well.. think it is all the humus introduced as Paul spoke of. I have just read that leuceana [sp?] really likes a higher pH. Going to get some of that. Excellent. Many uses.There are many plants that like higher pH a bit. Peppers seem fine with pH above 7 for me as does basil and rosemary and even tomatoes and salad greens seem to do fine where I have a higher pH so long as I can deal with the Iron lockout issue. Often if you can make everything else right for the plants, the pH becomes less important (though you still probably won't find happy blueberries in limestone soil.)
That is interesting. My potatoes grew well... the leaves I mean.... but when I went digging they were so small. New growing to me. Maybe I went digging too soon... had to remove the tower... was in the way.I've heard that potatoes need either rather acid growing conditions or rather alkali since too neutral will allow scab to attack them.
You betcha!Isn't compost great!!!
TCLynx
[url]http://www.tclynx.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.permies.com/permaculture-images/2692_740/Avitar.jpg[/img]
"the qualities of these bacteria, like the heat of the sun, electricity, or the qualities of metals, are part of the storehouse of knowledge of all men. They are manifestations of the laws of nature, free to all men and reserved exclusively to none." SCOTUS, Funk Bros. Seed Co. v. Kale Inoculant Co.
I am pretty sure I will need to get some of that then when my AP is up and running. Will look around and see what is available.TCLynx wrote:
Much of my knowledge about pH has a big more to do with Aquaponics and what I've learned there. In aquaponics when the pH is too high, we usually use chelated (sp) Iron to help the plants get some before the hi pH locks it out.
Interesting. Seems to be so. The difference is phenomenal. I know that the soil is very rich because it is virgin bushveld... never been farmed before... and nice depth of topsoil... beautiful black stuff with a lovely tilth... but that probably the limestone base causes the pH to be too high. So introducing the layers of humus has really made the difference. Less selective in what does grow well. Different layers of pH... that could really be it.Joel Hollingsworth wrote:
The lasagna might work partly because each plant can find a layer that it really likes.
Any root growing along the interface between compost and lime-rich soil would be able to poke its rootlets a smidge one way or the other and find a wide range of pH, and along with that a wide range of mineral availability. I could imagine soil that is, overall, too poor in trace minerals to offer the proper balance at any one pH, but yet has plants growing well in it where they can reach various places where the local pH allows each mineral to be more available than average.
Compost is, among its many other talents, a chelating agent, so I think it will also latch onto minerals when they're available, and keep them relatively available even through subsequent shifts in pH.
TCLynx
[url]http://www.tclynx.com/[/url]
[img]http://www.permies.com/permaculture-images/2692_740/Avitar.jpg[/img]
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