Buying land

Hi everybody! I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading and lurking on here for years. I've learned a lot and now I'm looking to take the plunge and buy some vacant land.

The property I'm looking at is 18 acres, with a seasonal creek running though it from the northeast corner to the southeast corner. The creek itself takes up approximately 1.5 acres of the property. It's only about 50 miles north of where I'm currently located and is basically the same environment: desert, low rainfall, winter snowfall, 200+ days of sunshine.

I'm hoping this amazing community can help me out, what types of questions I ought to ask about this property, what are other things I need to know in order to make the most informed decision possible?

I don't know anything about NV water law, but in the western US in general it's a good idea to verify what legal rights you have to use the water that's on your property. Just because you own the land, unfortunately does not necessarily mean that you can legally use as much of the river water as you want for any purpose you imagine.

Also verify that the property is legally accessible with whatever vehicle you plan on using. From your screenshot it looks like it's next to a paved road but you will technically have to cross some other parcel(s) to get there. The property may or may not come with an existing easement that allows you to cross those parcels without it being considered trespassing. If the land you need to cross is public land, it might be more complicated than you'd guess to get the official permission to build a driveway across it.

A local realtor will probably be able to help you with a lot more than I can on these sorts of questions.

Sounds exciting but I do agree with Josh. Lots of times water laws are in place where you're not legally allowed to use water for growing... and only for domestic use. Also indeed there can be other "funny" things that aren't out in the open where a relator can maybe shed some light on. Specifically permitting and land use stuff... sometimes lands cheap but the process of starting a build can be very expensive. Either way good luck!

From your screen shot it looks like the only access from the road would be north of the creek. Or maybe south of the creek.

If you can access from south of the creek it looks like you will have access to more of the property.

You called it a seasonal creel is it really what is know as a wet weather creek?  

I have wet weather creeks on my property which do not hinder my access though it does hinder my neighbors access.

Josh has given you some really good advice about water right so be sure to check that out with someone other than the realtor/owner.

Josh Warfield wrote:Also verify that the property is legally accessible.

Josh is spot on here, you must be 100% sure on this. I would want to see the easement on a registered plat map if it were me.

We looked at a large parcel a few years ago that had a good price.  The old access was through a neighbor that sold and the new owners turned their property into a blueberry farm and decided not to allow the access to continue. The new access was through state game land and as mentioned, they do not grant easements. They are also not obligated to keep the road in any decent shape and this one was not more than a trail. 4x4 access needed.

A 500K property is worth 1/10 of that, or less, once it is landlocked.

I would want to walk the property, particularly along the creek considering things like:
1. How much of the land is flood plain to that creek? Flood plains can be great for growing, but require special considerations if you plan to build permanent infrastructure. In fact, make sure there isn't a prohibition against building.
2. What is upstream, and does it have the potential to contaminate the stream water? There are the obvious toxic gick issues, but there's also the less obvious - 2 properties up the guy dumps all his cow shit from the barn where the water will wash it "away". (We'd like to believe people have outgrown that, but alas, many haven't a clue how valuable cow shit is!)
3. What is the "soil" actually like? Yes, there's a lot permaculture can do to improve soil, but it's good to know what your starting point will be.

What are your reasons for purchasing this property?  Is it in California or Nevada?

I hadn't thought about the potential accessibility issue!  I will make sure to follow up on that. There's a rail line a mile or so to the east, which is how I discovered this property, driving out there for work with the railroad. I have driven to it, and walked a little bit of the perimeter when I had time, but haven't gone there just to go there.
I was pretty much operating on the idea that I don't have rights to use the water from the creek directly, I will be getting that info officially in the next few days from my realtor.

I've never heard the phrase "wet weather creek". This particular creek usually has some water in it from October-April in a good water year, about half that time in a bad water year. It doesn't have much of a flood plain in this section, much farther upstream is more marshy and that's the area that gets most of the excess, although even in the wettest of the wet years when everything was flooding it didn't overflow its banks a noticeable amount here.
Upstream there's a small town, and much farther upstream are a several large alfalfa farms, and downstream is nothing but sagebrush.

I'm wanting to get it as a long term project, more of a retirement property. Something that I can spend some time on occasionally, building up the land and working on the soil (its pretty alkaline and dusty clay for the most part) without feeling rushed to get building on it right away.  I do know that I am allowed to build on it, I'm just not interested in doing so yet.


Thank you all!  It's really helping me, not only with legal things I need to look into but also with bringing my thoughts and ideas into better focus.

Hi Erika, one other important topic is to investigate the official flood plain maps that counties will often use to determine legal building sites. From that photo, it appears much of the property may in fact be essentially flood plain, given the greener vegetation and lighter colored surface sediment. Even if you haven't seen it rise above the bank yet, there are statistical models that determine what a 100-500yr flood event will look like and this is often what designates flood prone areas which can't be built on or insured.

Ben Brownell wrote:Hi Erika, one other important topic is to investigate the official flood plain maps that counties will often use to determine legal building sites. From that photo, it appears much of the property may in fact be essentially flood plain, given the greener vegetation and lighter colored surface sediment. Even if you haven't seen it rise above the bank yet, there are statistical models that determine what a 100-500yr flood event will look like and this is often what designates flood prone areas which can't be built on or insured.

Ya, checking the official maps before answering would've been smart.  It is mostly part of the 1% flood hazard zone.  Guess it's back to research mode about the floodplain building codes in this county.

Aha, well good to know...

Taking a quick look around there's some nice larger parcels like this one with both creek/wash bottom and an elevated bench area over 200ac a little NE of Reno:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-Left-Hand-Canyon-Rd-Reno-NV-89510/2075843440_zpid/

Also you might be interested in contacting folks at https://www.rosewaterranch.com in the vicinity, neat looking new permie community project!

Erika House wrote: Ya, checking the official maps before answering would've been smart.  It is mostly part of the 1% flood hazard zone.  Guess it's back to research mode about the floodplain building codes in this county.

There are ways to build safely in a flood zone, so it's not just about checking the codes, but also about the type of flood and the character of the river.  Huge damage happened in North Carolina because it was not a water flood, but mud, which has far more mass and force. Water that slowly rises above the banks is much different.

As a permie, I frequently state that "building codes" offer valuable guidance, but tend to focus on saving lives, rather than on having a recoverable asset after the event. For my local example, our building codes for earthquake are that the people need to be able to get out, but the house doesn't have to be livable or repairable afterward. Anything permanent that we build will be expected to be at least repairable afterward - I'm too old to be living in a tent in our wet winters!

In the case of flood, choosing carefully where you site your building, and using Hügelkultur as berms to encourage the water to go around areas you want protected, and other techniques to keep important assets safe, is important on any parcel of land. Floods can enrich the soil - they aren't all bad!

I will give a different advice. If you can, please do not buy land on the desert, especially cold desert. It's extremely difficult to grow in such conditions, even if you have water and good soil. Diurnal temperature changes, very late frosts are the main enemies. Then extreme high temperatures. I'm on the other side of the Sierra Nevada and growing anything is very challenging and needs a lot of investment and I have quality, deep soil and a lot of water. Using desert for grazing is also difficult, because there is not enough vegetation. In the cold desert it's also difficult to acquire wood for heating. If you don't care about these things and just want to build and live in a remote area then please disregard what I wrote.

Cristobal Cristo wrote:I will give a different advice. If you can, please do not buy land on the desert, especially cold desert. It's extremely difficult to grow in such conditions, even if you have water and good soil. Diurnal temperature changes, very late frosts are the main enemies. Then extreme high temperatures. I'm on the other side of the Sierra Nevada and growing anything is very challenging and needs a lot of investment and I have quality, deep soil and a lot of water. Using desert for grazing is also difficult, because there is not enough vegetation. In the cold desert it's also difficult to acquire wood for heating. If you don't care about these things and just want to build and live in a remote area then please disregard what I wrote.

I've been living in this area my whole life, and have 4 generations of growers' knowledge of this desert to draw on. Not to mention this awesome site.  I wouldn't want to live or grow anywhere else.

Erika House wrote:I've been living in this area my whole life, and have 4 generations of growers' knowledge of this desert to draw on. Not to mention this awesome site.  I wouldn't want to live or grow anywhere else.

I respect it and wish you finding the best lot!

The experience you speak of will be handy.
I have a 'winter flow creek' on my place. 20 acres, which flows about once a year and is about 18 inches deep,
but 12 months ago it was 4 ft deep and smashed a lot of stuff, spread more widely and was very destructive.
Also having a creek bed splitting your property may be an issue to think about.
Can you get a contour plan, that will show a lot.

Hi Erika, congratulations on taking the first step towards buying your own land! Before moving forward, there are a few important things to consider. First, make sure to confirm the water rights for the creek, as owning the land doesn’t always mean you can use the water freely. Next, verify that there is legal access to the property through a registered easement, so you won’t face any issues getting to it. Additionally, check if any part of the land near the creek falls within a floodplain, as this could impact building plans. Lastly, it’s a good idea to test the soil quality to understand its suitability for gardening, building, or other activities you have in mind. Wishing you all the best with your land search!