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all my chickens have to be locked up

 
Leah Sattler
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the neighbors dogs have picked off 6 chickens now. bummer. my dh went out to rescue and cage my two favorite remaining banty hens after I realized yesterday afternoon my remaining rooster and deleware hen were gone. I have a mille fleur style and blue hen left that I was particularly concerned about. the blue has obviously found a safe place to sleep and he couldn't find her anywhere laastnight! I will have to sit out and watch where she goes tonight. she took us two nights to catch to move her here even trying to get her off the roost well after dark. she is pretty savvy for a chicken! one reason why I want to keep them. they are good mommas and exceptionally brainy as far as predators go. I watched one of the dogs take my white one that was related the other day but I couldn't waddle my but up from the pasture fast enough to save her all the chickens that were roosting in my main free ranger chicken house are gone. 3 roosters and 3 hens. 

I don't consider chickens to be worth straining tensions with the neighbors over. if the dogs were actually tearing into a chicken pen then I would feel I have to say something but as it sits we have decided to let it be for now. still its obnoxious. my goats won't go out and browse some days because their dogs are out ther playing on our property. we scare them off with a shotgun when we can but it doesn't keep them away for long. I certainly don't want to strain relations with that neighbor..........I have yet to see him do yard work without his pistol strapped to his hip    weird.
 
Jordan Lowery
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we have had a dog from a neighboring area, she killed 30 chickens last year( 3 separate attacks). the good thing is the owners paid for every last chicken and then some. while still replacing the ones that were killed. they have agreed to put her on a shock collar, she now can roam like she did before, but now she has a range that onyl goes a hundred feet or so outside of there property. we haven't lost a chicken since. and they are happy there dog doesn't "vanish for a day"
 
Kathleen Sanderson
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Leah, you should probably go have a non-confrontational talk with your neighbor in spite of the pistol.  Let him know what has happened, and ask if there's any way he can keep the dogs home.  However, unfortunately, ultimately it's your responsibility to protect your chickens even though it may be against the law for the dogs to be running loose. 

Kathleen
 
Jami McBride
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I agree with tolerance when it comes to neighborly relations, but . . . .

Turning a blind eye while their dogs roam your land would be to much for me.  I would take pictures of the trespassing and paw prints, go to the neighbors first and have a talk, indicating that is was my first stop toward a peaceful resolution.

Maybe tell them in two weeks time your going to have to take actions to defend your land and animals from their dogs.  Come up with a plan for non-lethal action, and demonstrate you want a resolution both of you can live with, and not to start a fight.  Ya, some people are just plain ugly, aggressive and looking for a fight, but most land owners know they have to keep their dogs from roaming and killing other people's animals.

You should have some laws on your side regarding this issue.... A dog (living with no property fencing) bit one of my kids and I was given the right to have it put down.  I told the owners to build a kennel or let the city carry out the law.  They had the kennel done in a week.  Another time a neighbor would let their dog run and it got two of my chickens, one in my neighbors front yard!  It made my neighbor so mad he turned them in!  Again I was given the choice to press charges forcing them to pay a fine of $375, I told them don't worry about it, just give me $45 for the chicken's and never let me see your dog again.   In both cases the people learned their lessons and were very happy to avoid the law, they were grateful to me and not mad    What's my point?  Maybe you too can use the law as the bad-cop to your good-cop play?  And keep relations nice a peaceful between you and your gun carrying neighbor.

It really helps to be matter-of-fact and NOT emotional in these situations.  But if these dogs are allowed to continue then eventually they will to do something, which will crumble your control, like kill one of your goats!  Then you will have to deal with it while your upset and fuming.  I would nip it in the bud - asap, but that's just me. 

Dogs killing chickens is take action time, to my way of thinking.

 
                    
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I agree with Jami, the problem will remain as is, at best, or get worse if you don't deal with it.  My partner just said "any dog killing things on our land is a dead dog."  Given your situation, I think Jami's advice is a much better method.  Do you have any kind of relations with this neighbor?  You shouldn't have to lock up your animals on your land because of someone else's animal that can just as easily be restrained. 
 
Gwen Lynn
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Oh my! 

Leah, I can totally understand your hesitation about talking to someone who does friggin' yard work with a pistol strapped to his hip! WTF is that about? That would make me extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. There are only so many reasons a person would go around like that, and none of them are good, IMO. Geeze, it's not like there's been any bear or cougar attacks around there. Maybe this guy has a snake phobia or something.

It's really intimidating...and that's probably why he's doing it. There's no way I could strike up a conversation with someone who's wearing a gun, and whose neglect of their animals is causing problems. I might have to borrow an Uzi first! My gun is bigger and faster than yours is...nyah nyah! 

How would that little talk play out? Maybe your dh should walk over there, carrying his hunting rifle and dressed like he was out hunting. Then he could say, "Hey, neighbor! I've got my rifle, you have a pistol. How about if we lay our weapons down and have a little talk about your chicken-killing dogs?"

Maybe waving a white flag would help. "I come in peace, please don't shoot me, but could you keep your dogs off my property?" Here's a great little ice breaker, "Hey, I can't help but notice you wear a pistol when you're mowing. I know, that Bermuda grass is a tough S.O.B. but yours must be really badass!"

Or maybe this would be better: "I've been wondering why you carry a gun when you do yard work, is there something about this area I should know? Hey, ya know what? I'm thinking about carrying a pistol too, so I can blow your dogs head off when they're on my property, killing my chickens. Hope you won't mind, I'm just being neighborly!" (please excuse my sarcasm, folks!)

Sorry, if my attitude isn't very reasonable. I just don't think that going around with your string trimmer and a gun strapped to your hip is reasonable behavior. Unless you live in Compton, Detroit, North Tulsa...where ever!

I'd bet this guy knows dang well he shouldn't let his animals run loose. He just doesn't give a flying flip. I've seen that type of person WAY to often around here. They don't care if their dogs get run over by a car, or cause some well meaning person to run their car off the road & wreck, trying not to hit a dog. They also drive 75 mph with their dogs loose in the back of their pickup trucks, and don't bother to stop if the dog falls out. My dh has witnessed that.

If your neighbor's dogs go over and kill someone's chickens, well that's too bad for them. Hell, he might not even care if somebody shot his dogs when they were off his property. He'll just get more dogs.

Before striking up a conversation with this guy, I might go to local authorities first. Maybe they know who he is and what he's about. Does your other neighbor know anything about Mr. Pistol Hip?
 
Ken Peavey
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I live in the middle of town.  I've had dogs take out several chickens more than once.  Livestock, including chickens, is not permitted where I live so I don't have the law on my side.  All I can do is throw sticks.  I have them fenced in an area about 30x30, but dogs have dug under the fence and killed my birds inside.

When a dog kills a chicken, they will come back until every last one is gone. 

Talk to that neighbor.  He owes you for some chickens, his dog killed them, he is responsible.  This sort of thing happens all the time.  If you want to press the issue, use the courts.  Small claims is in place for a reason.  You have a case.

It would not be wise to carry a hunting rifle, its just a bunch of chickens.  If he does not contain the animal, and the it strikes again, call in the law.

Shooting the animal, blowing him to kingdom come, is what I would want to do, but this brings the issue into a whole new arena.  You don't want to go there.  If you have to shoot it, do it with a camera.

Talk.  If it does not work, talk some more.  If it still does not work, call the Sheriff, he'll do the talking.  Once the Sheriff is involved, you are protected.



 
Leah Sattler
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I appreciate all the sentiments and suggestions. its a crappy situation that can get pretty dicey and uncomfortable real fast.

we have only spoken to them once. that was when we first moved in and my ponies went to visit them at this point we have 0 relationship with them. my thought is....... they know dang well their dogs are killing my chickens. they take them over to their own front yard and shred them. I can see the feather piles. and as gwen pointed out the pistol thing is very bizarre. I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation for it...yes yes....I'm suuuuure ....a perrrrfectly justifiable good reason (in his mind)........that I am not so sure I want to find out.....

the law is on my side. ethics is on my side. but redneck human nature isn't.  they know what is happening.......what am I going to change? I have thought this through. what is he gonna say "oh gee.....I saw my dogs were killing your chickens and I just thought you didn't mind"...?? they have three dogs running loose (one is just a weiner dog) if I try to approach it I am going to make for a very uncomfortable relationship no matter how freindly I try to to make the situation.  there is no entirely freindly way to say "hey lock your dogs up or will have to take care of it". 

if something happens to a goat........It will be a different story, they are too valuable and difficult to replace. but even at that the appropriate and least trouble instigating solution is SSS. shoot shovel shutup. or nimy case ss. ship and shut up. if you tell them you are going to take care of the problem if they don't then all you have done is told them who is going to shoot their dogs (or in my case, I would actually just take them elsewhere 'cause I like dogs and its not their fault...they are just being dogs) then they know who to be mad at. better that they just dissapear. a neighbors goats (owner is unclear) has already "mysteriously" dissappeared after dealing with its obnoxious behavior and living with my herd for 8 months. "geee. no. I haven't seen your goat for quite some time, coyotes maybe took it......"

I guess I might be somewhat desensitized to neighbor problems. and tolerant. considering my last ones these are great.... so far...... even with the chicken killing dogs.....  I dont' feel like I have to lock my door and contemplate hiding places while they patrol the street screaming and intoxicated/high. and comfortingly, so far, no one has been shooting at my house while I hold an infant in the front yard!  my previous neighbors were truly frightening and dangerous.  I definitly want the pistol toting guy on my side though. really, makes me wonder if this dude has a few........issues...........and I don't want to be one of them! better I try and cultivate an "us against them" relationship rather then a "me against you" relationship"  cause neither one of us are probably moving for quite some time.
 
Gwen Lynn
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Leah, I know you "get" me...but just to clarify for others who may read it, I wasn't serious about going over there with a rifle, or even shooting the dogs. That was just a bit of sarcasm.
We (you & dh, me & my dh) all know the sort of person you are likely dealing with.

Yeah, this is a quite the "sticky wicket" as they say.

What a total bummer. In my naive mind, I hoped that having more land between you and your neighbors would help (I'm soooo tired of having so many nearby neighbors), but this just stinks.

You're right, there is no "friendly" was to approach a situation like that, and his prominent display of his "peacemaker" speaks volumes about the sort of person he likely is.


 
Ken Peavey
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A buddy of mine used to carry a pistol when mowing the lawn.  There was a swampy area way out back.  Water moccasins were a problem.  He was sober as a judge and simply being practical.
 
                    
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I agree, get some evidence (like a photo of it happening) and talk to your neighbor about it directly.  If that doesn't work, call the sherrif.  Don't wait until they take down one of your goats.  (I've known a couple of dogs working together here to kill deer, they could definitely handle a goat.)  Then you'll get emotional and it will be difficult to deal with your neighbor in a level headed way. 
 
Gwen Lynn
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I don't know what more evidence she needs, the dogs are taking the chickens home to their yard and shredding them. Piles of feathers and chicken remains are evidence enough, I'd think.

Those of you who could walk up and talk to someone (they really didn't know) who is wearing a gun like this guy is, well, you're much braver than me. Most people would consider me a person who doesn't avoid confrontation. In this case, I'd have to think twice...or more. I know one thing, I would want witnesses who were at a distance (preferably with a video camera running!) before I'd go over and talk to this dude.

If he's got a snake problem, he should put the gun down, walk away from it when he's approached by his neighbor. I highly doubt that he would do that, but I'd sure like to be proven wrong. We know some people in law enforcement. I think I'll ask them what they'd do if this was their neighbor. 
 
Leah Sattler
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Gwen Lynn wrote:

We (you & dh, me & my dh) all know the sort of person you are likely dealing with.

his prominent display of his "peacemaker" speaks volumes about the sort of person he likely is.



thanks gwen. I hate to pull up stereotypes but..... gwen understands maybe more. there are some crazy, bullheaded, macho redneck men around here. the country equivalant of gangsters with their capacity for being offended and overreacting violently to it. I have been around the block enough around good 'ol OK to know how to deal with, and not deal with some people.  one of my dh favorite sayings "you can't fix stupid" applies. you can replace stupid with "macho" or "a jackass" and you can get the law to make people not act stupid overtly. but..... not much you can say or do to really fix people if they are wacked out. .......so he locks his dogs up when I ask or point out the law..... holds a grudge. ....and he's mabye a bit less careful when he's "shooting at snakes" and one of my goats happens to be in the line of fire? thats how I see it playing out.

the laws and their coerced ethical behavior are just bandaids that cover up the hideous truth behind peoples smiling faces making them more covert, evasive and vindictive. 

i know it can take time to deal with problems. fencing costs money, it takes time to rehome dogs etc.... if the dogs start getting locked up or move on, I will know I am dealing with someone who is reasonable, and ethical and cares. if they don't. then I am glad i know who I am dealing with. I'd rather be in a position of knowledge then perceived power.

to their credit. they have locked up their (apparently) pygmy goat that was wandering free for months. (actually was hanging out on the porch with another goat with a questionable owner when we looked at the place) I am guessing the one I made dissappear wasn't theirs or they didn't want it either. it was aggressive towards my daughter so it simply left. no clarifying who the owner was and asking them to lock it up. no them getting ticked off when they didn't lock it up and it dissapeared and blaming me. didnt' have to deal with a situation where now its starving in a tiny pen with no shelter on their property and its because I told them to lock it up.

the owners of this house had a dog that the neighbor two doors down shot for repeatedly chasing down his goats. his mistake was that he told them that the dog needed to be locked up or he would have to take care of it because it was stressing the goats badly. dog didn't get locked up, dog was shot, body was presented to owner of dog.......and well...you can imagine ......they weren't exactly freindly neighbors anymore. in fact it sound like it was a feud..... 

we have snakes here. lots. never seen a venomous one. if he's that paranoid and irrational that he has to carry a gun for snakes then I am even more concerned! my daughter plays outside all the time weather permitting (and me too!).  not too long ago (can't remember the town name) a cop ended up killing a little kid when shooting at a snake in a tree that some moron had called the cops for. I think the kid was five and was fishing at the lake with a relative. he killed a kid because of a stupid snake.    what idiot would waste law enforcements time for a snake!
 
Gwen Lynn
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Leah Sattler wrote:
we have snakes here. lots. never seen a venomous one. if he's that paranoid and irrational that he has to carry a gun for snakes then I am even more concerned! my daughter plays outside all the time weather permitting (and me too!). 


I was thinking this same thought about the snakes when I posted.

Irrational fear of snakes is a great reason to carry a pistol. NOT! That is plain stupid, and ya caint fix stupid!

Before I got educated enough to i.d. snakes, I killed a stout, 6 ft. long bullsnake because I mistook it for a venomous snake. It bowed up at me, kinda stood on it's tail with it's back against a wall. There was a nice horse just a few feet from the snake. Adrenaline kicked in and I started throwing rocks at him & stoned him, in the biblical sense. Afterwards, when about 5 different people chastised me for killing a "good" snake. I really felt bad about that & regret it to this day.  ops: From then on, I made sure I learned to identify spiders, snakes, etc. before I acted hastily. I've never killed a snake since. Being as there are idiots around here who think snakes are or represent "evil", I like letting snakes live and telling everyone I know about it! 
 
                    
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Fences make for good neighbors.  If this was my neighbor, (and I have a few real winners I assure you) I would consider my options to be building a small fence to keep the chickens safe or build a big fence to keep the dogs out.  I would also use a firearm in the air each and every time I saw that dog approaching.  You can also shoot it with a BB gun.  It's quiet and doesn't harm the dog, just frightens it.  So the guy carries a pistol, big deal.  Probably lacking in some important male characteristic.  If you don't want to talk to him, build fences and/or get your own pistol.
 
jeremiah bailey
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It used to be the norm for people to carry a sidearm during their daily business. Some people have kept up that tradition. While there are some nasty hot headed types who do this, there are many more who are levelheaded and of the mind that the time they don't carry their gun is the time that they'll really need it. I think the man you may be dealing with could very well be the level headed type. The fact that he carries it openly shows he has nothing to hide by carrying it. The one's I'm scared of are the ones who either conceal, or openly play with their gun. The ones who conceal are trying to hide something. The ones who openly play with their gun are ignorant fools who are going to kill someone haphazardly. The ones who carry openly and keep it holstered unless needed are generally more level headed and reasonable, even the evil ones.

Ask the local police what they would suggest you do. I'm sure they've handled disputes like this before.
Nip it in the bud. You can't let their dogs terrorize you and your land. Try to make friends with these people. Friends carrying guns are far better than enemies carrying guns. Perhaps they don't realize their error. Or perhaps they are indifferent. After all, how often have your animals trespassed on their land?
 
Ken Peavey
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When you must do something, the best thing you can do is the right thing.  The worst thing to do is nothing.
 
Gwen Lynn
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Leah,
So far, I've talked to 5 or 6 different people about this. Aged late 40's to early 60's. Occupations ranging from an ex-cop turned self-employed salesman for his own (20+ year) moving business in the Chicago area, his wife/business co-owner, our mutual friend who owns a riding stable (30+ years) and is an ex-private detective, an ex-biker galpal of mine, another friend who is a realtor, and still another friend who was born & raised in a rural town not far from where you live.

All agree that you should be mighty careful in dealing with this person. All agree that him wearing his gun constantly makes the statement "don't f*** with me or I may shoot your a**. This is obviously how he wants to be perceived. Whether he'd really do that or not remains to be seen, er, hopefully never seen! He wears the gun that way so it can do his talking for him, it makes people uneasy and he knows it! It's complete legal in Oklahoma to conceal and carry, all you need is a permit and that may be only be a city thing. I'm not saying that's better, I'm just saying he doesn't have to have it on display. So the fact he wears it out in the open lets you know your dealing with an armed man. Not very comforting, is it?

Unfortunately, no one I talked to had any different suggestions about how to deal with it than what's already been mentioned here. Suggestions ranged from finding out his name and checking it out in online police or court records to see if he has a criminal record, to carrying a gun of your own & talking to local law enforcement, etc.

Jeremiah says the guy could be the level headed type. Apparently, your neighbor is so level headed that the top of his head is a flat desert plain, where there should be a brain! A social and reasonable person whose dogs were trespassing AND killing their neighbor's property would come over (WITHOUT THE DAMN GUN!), introduce himself, apologize for his dogs killing your chickens and offer to pay for the damages and fix it so they don't get out of their yard. Exception being if the guy was from Eastern Europe or something and there's a language barrier.

You said your ponies got on his property. They did no damage, so it doesn't really count. If they had damaged something of his, of course you would have offered to pay/repair. You fixed the fence problem and the ponies don't get out anymore. You took care of it in a reasonable way and he should do the same. He's indifferent all right. To the point of being ignorant! 
 
Leah Sattler
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Dawndelion wrote:
Fences make for good neighbors.  If this was my neighbor, (and I have a few real winners I assure you) I would consider my options to be building a small fence to keep the chickens safe or build a big fence to keep the dogs out.  I would also use a firearm in the air each and every time I saw that dog approaching.  You can also shoot it with a BB gun.  It's quiet and doesn't harm the dog, just frightens it.  So the guy carries a pistol, big deal.  Probably lacking in some important male characteristic.  If you don't want to talk to him, build fences and/or get your own pistol.


this is exactly my plan.  except no pistol. I think that would be silly. I'm not up for a contest of who can act more redneck I want to have a chicken moat around the garden anyway. the pistol thing is weird. and there seriously could be an explanation for it. my husband talked with him over the fence apparently before we had purchased the back portion, there might be some indication that he was a security gaurd or something based on his attire? that could be part of the equation. It wouldn't stop me from having a nice chat over the fence with him or anything. I'm not shivering in fear in my house. it just is one of those things that makes me cock an eyebrow and put it into the "possibly relevant behaviour" file in my brain. I really didnt' intend for it to be the main topic of the thread! 

my ponies went over there once. my invisible fence for my dogs was down once and they figured it out and went over there to play with the labs. (I would have been horrified if they brought a dead animal home with them!) I don't even have a problem with the dogs loose. if they just hunted rabbits outback, which is all they did until recently. there were loose dogs at our old home. some of them were my buddies. and there I had the attitude that if my chickens left the fenced area...well....they were on there own. and I plan to adopt that strategy here now. imo it is the best solution.

I dont' intend on spending an innordiate amount of time grumbling and being irritated and feeling "wronged". they are just some d*** chickens. I can buy them for a 1.50 apiece in a few months. its just a bummer because I was hoping that we had a big enough place now that I wouldn't have to put much effort into fencing animals away from chickens. but if it wasn't dogs it could just as easily be mink, fox, coon, possum or bobcats. then what would I do? fence the chickens in safely of course. it just happens to be dogs right now. and the dogs loose probably keep the other predators at bay in a big way. so I can even have some appreciation for them.  see. this could even be a positive thing in the long run!

I want my neighbors to be understanding of my critters as I am of theirs. I have had two different neighbors horse herds escape onto my property. wild pigs. one of which dissapeared the other was eventually caught. those I wouldn't have left. they are dangerous and destructive and prolific! at the old place I rounded up cows and horses every now and then that for whatever reason had escaped someones containtment. its part of everyday life in the country. as long as they don't pose a threat then the neighborly thing to do is help  out and put the animals back if you know where to or can, contain them until you can reach the owner, or notify the owner if they are readily available. in the case of destructive animals it gets a little more dicey. thats where hard feelings can cause problems. I don't have any hard feelings. just boo hoo ones. I don't hold grudges and I don't stew over the reality of the way things are too long. just deal with it and move on. next up is field fence across the front of the house to replace the hotwire. then....chicken moat.

 
                    
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Love the idea of a chicken moat! 

The thing about being okay with the chickens getting out and being eaten every so often is that it will let the local predators know the restaurant is open and it will become a regular dining spot for them.  Of which I'm sure you're aware.  Do you have dogs?  Ours keep the neighbors dogs and coyotes away, protect our fowl and as you said, eat gophers and rabbits that would otherwise decimate our young orchard trees.  Everybody has a job to do including the wild things.  Sometimes we just have to remind them what it is. 

Seems Mr. Pistol forgot the nature of HIS job... 
 
Gwen Lynn
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Yep, your original thread kinda got a little hijacked, didn't it. Sorry about that!  ops:

Mention guns, chicken killing dogs & spooky neighbors, well things are bound to get a little crazy!  I think you have a great attitude and are a super problem solver. If anybody can deal with this, it's you! (Still kind of a drag, though!)

Can we just chalk it up to cabin fever? You haven't seen me in a while. Here's a recent pic.  Every day I don't see the sun makes me look more like Jack in the Shining...

Here's Johnny! 
jack_nicholson.jpeg.jpg
[Thumbnail for jack_nicholson.jpeg.jpg]
 
Leah Sattler
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oh my god he looks just like the guy next door!!! just kidding

dawndelion- you're right, they can become predator magnets anyway so I just don't see a better solution then to simply house them in a large area. it helps me anyway since then I can rotate them through the garden and they can clean up any fallen fruit for me. that will get my garden fenced from bunnies and help keep nearby weed seeds from drifting into the garden by way of them eating them before they mature...(thats probably wishful thinking) with time we will be able to fence the whole front 3-4 acres for sheep and some ducks (dreaming here) and they can have the run of that. thats a few years down the road though financially. just too many other priorities.

one fun thing. this means I get to buy some more chicks this spring  for somereason that is always fun for me.


I do have dogs. mine stay in within their boundaries using an invisible fence. one of them is not helpful and likes to play with the labs 
 
paul wheaton
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suggestion 1)  LGD

suggestion 2) awesome (expensive) fence

suggestion 3)  This is gonna take some explanation ...

Years ago this topic would come up on the HT forums.  Usually it would run for hundreds of posts before everybody came to the same conclusion.  In the first posts were all of the things that were in the first posts here. And then people would debate (often with a great deal of hostility) about what is right or best or humane or reasonable or decent.  HT is a mix of country folk: some folks are armed to the teeth and some vegetarians that refuse to own even a slingshot.

After hundreds of posts, it was my impression that the consensus was something they called "SSS":  shoot, shovel and shutup.  The weird thing is that after hundreds of posts, even the the meekest hippie seemed to agree.  I think I've seen the debate happen about five times.  Each with hundreds of posts.  And all five times it seemed to come to roughly the same unanimous conclusion.

I expect that right now, most of you would never dream of SSS.  And this thread doesn't have very many posts in it right now.

That said, let's suppose .... so this is Mr. Rogers' land of make believe ....  suppose for just a moment, that you are gonna end up with SSS.  The hard part is the the third S.  Shutup.  Now, let's see if there are things we can do to completely avoid SSS while preserving the third S.

So, you can't go to your neighbor and say "leash your dog or I'll shoot it - as is my legal right."  (and these sorts of rights might vary from county to county) cuz you have now violated the third S. 

I would think that the first step is to get to know all of your neighbors well enough so that if there is any kind of issue they will assist - especially if it is their own dog. 

And I know that is not always possible.  But maybe that sort of thing can cut the problems in half. 

And, I suspect, that there might be a list of things that might help to be preventative.  Maybe the thing to do is to start building that list in the hopes that none of us would ever have to resort to SSS.



 
Leah Sattler
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"Maybe the thing to do is to start building that list in the hopes that none of us would ever have to resort to SSS."

I second the know your neighbors. I am not particularly sociable and it will take time and opportunity for me to get to know these people. i want to do it over truly freindly terms, not tense ones. that is just setting things up alllll wrong.

I dont' want an lgd right now. well....want yes...set up for ...no. I can't fence the dogs out that means I can't fence an lgd in either and I don't want any of my dogs, even an lgd roaming off the property.

first on the list. fencing. animals in and animals out. everybody be happy then. 


I have seen those threads also. SSS works. but it is a distasteful and sad solution and really should be a last resort IMO. most people agree. it is sometimes neccessary but some just wanna use their gun and feel high and mighty about it! and its real easy to tell someone else to do it  when its not your neigbors that you will have to deal with and lie to if they ask. when its not the 4 year old little girls puppy next door to you that you are putting a hole in. when you don't personally see the dog in your scope and know that someday yours could escape and it could be your dog in someone elses cross hairs just as innocent in nature as any pet.

I watched one of my dogs come home with a hole in it and watched its panic and dying gasps on my front porch after it escaped from my yard once. its not pretty. they shot it in the ditch or just on the other side of the barbed wire in the creek bed in front of my house by a gun toting kid, probably 11 yrs old. he said they didn't want loose dogs around. as if their three always loose unaultered dogs (that also ate my chickens and came over to poop in my front yard everyday) were ok but mine that stayed in the backyard across the street from them(except for some occasional escapes) were not ok. it wasn't a pretty conversation when I stormed over to their house and told them all about the trouble their free range loose dogs caused as well as their cows and horses and asked them why I didn't get the same respect and tolerance from them that I felt I had given to them for years. I pointed out that I at least made an effort to contain my dogs of which they made none. a year or so later their bitch died having puppies in my front flowerbed. lovely. 

 
Jami McBride
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Lots of strong feelings here that's for sure.

I have a question, if this guy is every bit as uptight as he seems and you finally break down and shoot one of his dogs won't they hear the shot from your direction, notice dog gone and put 2 and 2 together? 

I totally get your position in this particular situation, you know what's best for you and your family.  So what follows is just me imagining and not advise on what you should or should not do.....

My personal feelings are that I would want a neighbor to give me a chance at doing the right thing, some warning - then I think I should be willing to give this to a neighbor - a personal dilemma I would struggle with for a time, and then settle in my spirit.   

My fear would lie in the areas of a cold-war of silent killing and other sneaky sabotage starting up, and even worse sending the wrong signals to a bully personality.  A measure of respect with guys lies in appropriate force in response to an ugly action.
Bullies look for people who won't stand up to them, won't challenge them and the bulling only gets worse.  Turning a blind eye is just what a bully wants to see, they love a good victim.

These are just my fears/concerns when I think about this.  I wouldn't have any problem with SSS if that was the solution for the situation.

 
Ken Peavey
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My buddy Bob took care of some apartments in Jacksonville.  He had a ferral cat problem, a .22 and a big bag of firecrackers.

It was interesting that just after a holiday, where he handed out firecrackers freely to the good citizens, the cat population was always considerably lower.

 
Gwen Lynn
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Passing out firecrackers to people in order to terrorize & possibly maim cats (feral or not), likely resulting in a slow, painful death is cruel & unconscionable. There are better, faster ways of dealing with a feral cat problem. If you're going to kill anything, do it quickly. Don't torture it first. Geeze!

Dealing with a feral cat problem in an apartment complex has little to do with rural neighbors who have pet dogs that are trespassing & killing chickens which belong to someone who has a small child. Throwing firecrackers at animals is a VERY poor example to set for children of any age.

BUT...it's a great way to start a grass fire!

Just IMO.

 
Ken Peavey
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As far as I know, there was no blowing up or torturing of any animals going on.  He handed out the firecrackers on holidays to serve as noise concealment and distraction for the .22.  Hard to tell the difference in noise when there are firecrackers going off now and then.

A single pop and a missing dog tells your neighbor you just wasted his pooch.

Several pops throughout the day or evening, maybe some sparklers tossed in to boot, it looks like you are celebrating.  One of those pops was a .22?  No way to prove anything.

This is SSS with cover.

 
Gwen Lynn
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I had to grow up hearing how my older brother & pals tortured cats with firecrackers. I've heard tales of this sort of thing elsewhere too.

Mention cats & firecrackers in the same sentence...and people may draw their own conclusions. I realize you mentioned the gun as well, but the post's original intention was not clear to me.

I appreciate you clearing that up with a little more detail. Thanks! 
 
Ken Peavey
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I was trying to hint at a solution without coming out and saying "Blow that SOB dog to Kingdom Come!"
 
Jami McBride
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Ken Peavey wrote:
As far as I know, there was no blowing up or torturing of any animals going on.  He handed out the firecrackers on holidays to serve as noise concealment and distraction for the .22.  Hard to tell the difference in noise when there are firecrackers going off now and then.

A single pop and a missing dog tells your neighbor you just wasted his pooch.

Several pops throughout the day or evening, maybe some sparklers tossed in to boot, it looks like you are celebrating.  One of those pops was a .22?  No way to prove anything.

This is SSS with cover.




That's a great idea.... I mean if I had to .22 a bad animal, that would be great cover.  Thanks for the diabolical thinking.

 
Gwen Lynn
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Yes, I meant to say that earlier. The firecrackers are a great idea for covering gunshot noise. I'll have to remember that! 
 
Ken Peavey
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Thanks for the diabolical thinking.

Yes, I meant to say that earlier.

There's a little Dr Evil in all of us.
 
Leah Sattler
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diabolical....evil......and an excellent idea!!! ....to have on the back burner at least......I was a bit confused as to how the firecrackers were being used too  got it now!

an old wivestale way of breaking dogs of chicken killing is to tie a dead chicken around their neck and make them carry it around for awhile.......maybe I should send the pooches home with  a dead chicken on purpose

I don't neccesarily think it would work but it might send a message
 
Gwen Lynn
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Leah Sattler wrote:
...I was a bit confused as to how the firecrackers were being used too  got it now!


Thanks, Leah! I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused! 
 
Paul Cereghino
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Our neighbor's dog killed one and wounded one.  Our neighbor grew up on a farm, she apologized, asked to pay the value of the bird, and then made her son who 'owned' the dog retrieve the dead chicken and tied it around the dogs neck with wire until it got nice and stinky (imagine what it was like for the dog).  Dogs are much smarter than chickens, and this dog looked at those chickens nervously ever since, and kept distance.

The best part was when my wife had a student upstairs looked out the window, asking, "momma, why does that dog have a chicken around its neck?"

PRC
 
Leah Sattler
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maybe it would work then!!!

I have also heard of holding the dog down and putting something on them to entice your flock of chickens to "peck" at them. In my mind I can actually see this possibly working. forcing a submissive position and letting the chickens get the upper hand might set up an automatic trigger in their mind that chickens might have the potential to out do them. or it might just totally traumatize them
 
charles c. johnson
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would spraying your chickens with bitters work ??
 
Leah Sattler
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I dunno! that is an interesting idea. maybe I need to bait them with a chicken that is nasty tasting. it seems that there was a thread on here that talked about training wolves or coyotes not to go after livestock by doing something that would make the predator sick/vomit after they consumed it. my mind is foggy on it but it seems there was someone actually conducting some research and it wasn't just a heresay thing.

however it looks like some local coyotes may have taken care of the dog for me. I haven't seen one of the dogs since I saw the coyotes after him. maybe he is just hiding at home. his younger buddy is either locked up now or won't leave home. I can't tell from my vantage. 
 
                          
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Congratulations on solving your problem.

No one seems to have mentioned electric fencing. Would it be possible to electrify the chicken fence to keep dogs out? Or, for that matter, would an electric fence keep dogs in?

I have one dog who stays home and behaves herself but have recently acquired another who is young and full of beans. Both are obedient, not ordinarily escapers, but I don't think they will listen when the first deer or coyote happens by. In fact, I want them to chase coyotes and other predators. Just not too far.

Also, my dogs love to hunt field mice and the older one has learned how to catch the odd bird and fish.  So they could easily mistake a chicken for easy prey. I am going to raise chickens and feel confident that I can teach them not to eat my chickens but a neighbor's might look like fair game.

Very worrying.

 
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