Salt Water Ran Small Engine 2008

Salt Water Ran Small Engine 2008

Tinkerer discovered new method to run an engine as spark plug electrolysis, at lowered power level. His Document ,- Postal Service protected by date conceived , talks about small engine ignition coil modified with added magnetic field to plug cable. This was putting field at tips of plug in chamber,  and extend timing required from TDC to about late 34 degrees . Hydrogen gas uses this area engine timing. An electromagnet was hooked to resistor and ground. 13 turns #16 Wires wound around steel screw core and cable. Another extension of 7t over 5t cable at 90 degrees wind also increases the disruption to ignition.  The Magnetron rated about 10kv has low .5 Peak pulse amps. (not average current) When enhanced by a field, the sparking became 20 times bigger, 10 amps pulse, at slightly lowered high voltage. This is enough passing through low ohms solution to generate fuel gases. On time was about 34% duty cycle as flywheel goes around. Wow. Could drive a one cylinder Briggs riding lawnmower around with electric start. Alternator charges battery. 12 magnets run alternator while 1 magnet runs Ignition. (Both self contained) Minor extra parts added,- resistor, fuse,  Inductor 1-2 millihenry accessory in line spark gap, diodes, etc. Photo of electromagnet on Internet - S1R9A9M9 coils. - See another man's version called- Megatran. You tube video sounds like a water pump.

Is it possible to find out more details?  You mention this scientist only as a tinkerer, but could you please name her or him?  It could be illuminating to tead more on these theories and/or experiments

One of the issues with these reports, which appear frequently enough to raise the "if smoke, then fire" thought, is the sheer amount of techno babble in the report. The reports often read like someone was using a thesaurus and dictionary to cram every possible electrical/magnetic related word into the report.

This is not any insult to the OP, who is reporting on a report, and is doing good work by bringing this information forward.  Thank you, Russ Rob.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was possible. If it was possible, I wouldn't be surprised if the people making it possible were vaporized by the powers that be. But I find it surprising that every single report on the issue that I have seen is incomprehensible.

"Postal Service protected by date conceived"?  
" small engine ignition coil modified with added magnetic field to plug cable"?

Anybody who can make this work is a master. Mastery in a field often includes the ability to explain the internal complexity of a field to dullards. Yet, that never occurs in this area.

These always seem to me to either a psy-op aimed at discrediting the work by making it look silly/insane,  or the type of  "adding gratuitous Latin phrases to arguments " chicanery that used to be common in court.

Let's hope it is true!

Postal Service - it used to be or maybe still is common among inventors hoping to patent, to authenticate the date of the origination of an idea, by mailing the patentable idea in document format to ones self. An unopened letter, containing the documents was, via postmark, legally dated future proof of the date of origination.
How I would read that part.

The DC generator is mounted under flywheel of all Briggs riding lawn mowers engines. The 2 AC wires extend to rectification to recharge battery or provide power to extra circuit. The flywheel contains 13 permanent magnets. 12 for the generator and 1 for the ignition. No input is used to run generator or ignition other than turning crankshaft. When hydrogen gas fuel is made at spark plug , the engine starts running. The battery was used for the starter motor only, then completely shut off. Power to make electrolysis is then coming from generator at idle speed. Salt water is allowed to flow into top of carb from hose + bottle. Diodes needed to get DC to make low efficiency electrolysis of water. Fuel gas forms at tips of spark plug and fires same time. The added wire coil changes the timing ,as is needed with hydrogen. The spark plug receives what is called pulse PEAK DC current as about 10A. Spark plug was changed to Champion QC12YC at 125 ohms , rather than original 4000ohms resistance. They also come apart to remove resistor to get a Zero ohms racing plug. ( copper #12 wire segment replacement)

You can verify an old used engine would just run by adding 70% alcohol, or acetylene gas from carbide stones + water added, and also Ether spray into carb. The sound of Nathren's water engine on hydrogen sounds like a water pump. Youtube (2 )videos by S1R9A9M9

Russ Rob wrote:The DC generator is mounted under flywheel of all Briggs riding lawn mowers engines. The 2 AC wires extend to rectification to recharge battery or provide power to extra circuit. The flywheel contains 13 permanent magnets. 12 for the generator and 1 for the ignition. No input is used to run generator or ignition other than turning crankshaft. When hydrogen gas fuel is made at spark plug , the engine starts running. The battery was used for the starter motor only, then completely shut off. Power to make electrolysis is then coming from generator at idle speed. Salt water is allowed to flow into top of carb from hose + bottle. Diodes needed to get DC to make low efficiency electrolysis of water. Fuel gas forms at tips of spark plug and fires same time. The added wire coil changes the timing ,as is needed with hydrogen. The spark plug receives what is called pulse PEAK DC current as about 10A. Spark plug was changed to Champion QC12YC at 125 ohms , rather than original 4000ohms resistance. They also come apart to remove resistor to get a Zero ohms racing plug. ( copper #12 wire segment replacement)

You can verify an old used engine would just run by adding 70% alcohol, or acetylene gas from carbide stones + water added, and also Ether spray into carb. The sound of Nathren's water engine on hydrogen sounds like a water pump. Youtube (2 )videos by S1R9A9M9

Russ,
That is the best post I have ever read on this subject across dozens of forums.
Great job.
Jeff

When I was a teenager I once tried running our old lawnmower on 70% rubbing alcohol. It ran, but was hard to start and power was about half what it should have been. My stepdad told me it was a worthwhile experiment but warned me to flush it out with gas when I was done because the alcohol would swell the carburetor gaskets and ruin them. He also reckoned that if I kept doing it the muffler would rust out from all the water in the exhaust (he was probably right about that too...he built racing engines for a living)...so imagine the havoc caused by salt water.

Then I took high school chemistry and learned that the energy to split a water molecule was greater than the amount released when it was formed, so I never wasted my time abusing four-stroke engines in the backyard after that.

Use for those pesky one use throw away plastic flash cameras.

You can make a pop gun from firing capacitor into salt water in a large plastic syringe. The plunger will shoot out + hit the wall. Electrolysis of water for Hydrogen gas and fire same time. Insert 2 screws close together at the compression end of syringe with water. Keep the whole board. Use battery to run the charger circuit for the capacitor. (Use instead of lighting up a flash lamp.) Man from Philippines did this awhile back.. Another man discharged 500uf capacitor charged from several hundred volts supply, into mower engine spark plug. Salt water was put on end electrodes. When fired as electrolysis, it forms hydrogen gas and fires plug same time. His engine crankshaft turned over one revolution. Bench test was repeated. There are regular electrolytic caps and also whats called photo flash type which are called low ESR. These type discharge faster, less internal heating, and release more energy in one blast.
The Horvath US Patent showed how to run electrolysis cell on capacitor discharges which ended up as 30v + 200 pulse amps to electrodes in electrolyte, at 10khz.. Full schematic and parts list. Car ran on water.

Reference  Aug 27, 2008  Waterfuel1978 Forum

Briggs Magnetron with triple coils assembly, inductor,- used with standard Ignition coil bench tester. Daveand5 noted the leakage inductance crossover voltage 150v to the low volts side. When wires hooked up, the Briggs 15kv coil gave out an unusual 40kv. Range switch on 50kv. He noted also the plastic tub holder had helped raise up voltage. He suggested increasing the 2nd and third coil size for further change.

After reading this paper over considerable amount of time, I recently got the idea of COORELATIONS. I did this years ago with other subjects, and it works. If you do some bench tests and note 4 outcomes, but only mention 2 or 3 to others over long period, the people still have questions. The originator may deem it not significant to talk about.

Based on these other COORELATIONS I find that the Georgia people neglected to tell of ignition major voltage change, when firing spark plugs with the new S1R coils assembly.

With the S1r coils having reversed source flows of power, there is inherent designed in interference placed on the spark cable-bare wire. This we already know forms longer on time of spark ATDC and mild magnetism at tips of plug. The Georgia techs failed to mention about increased volts firing the spark plugs. They called it boosting the ignition cable by adding more current. Volts + current are 2 different things and by different methods. Inverter output current and magnetic field impressed.

(1.) The plastic deli tub holding the S1R electrical wiring acted as a capacitance for aiding the increased voltage of output. We know the general DC power supplies use a filter capacitor after the diodes, that raises up the end volts.

(2.) The 2008 bench test indicated an abnormal change of ignition volts going as to 40KV.

(3.) Nathren said the earlier 60 turns coil over plug wire test on fender of car engine formed magnetic field that fired spark plug in air with white/blue ball flame blast. Under compression it is stronger.

(4.) Nathren said that the Briggs 18HP engine tests with S1r coils gave higher output voltage than the car engine ignition coils.

Therefore, because of correlations, it is my contention that it is normal for our S1R windings coils to increase the Magnetron high voltage to a much higher range for firing saltwater solution for successful running a water engine.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Hiya Russ. I'll take a puff from my pipe and spin a yarn for you:

Ohm's law was still in effect last time I checked. So if you raise the voltage you decrease the current. The amount of power in the circuit stays the same. Energy is power over time. So if the power is constant and you choose a time interval, the energy will also stay the same.

Why does this matter? Because the electrical energy does not come out of nowhere. The engine has to do some work to turn a magneto (or generator, or alternator). Whatever creates the voltage potential in the first place takes rotational power from the crankshaft. The engine has to convert fuel into expanding gas to turn the crankshaft.

Let's just imagine for a minute that firing a spark plug inside the cylinder of an internal combustion engine filled with air and salt water actually ionised all the water molecules and now it's an explosive mix of hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The water molecules were held together with a force that required an energetic discharge in the spark that was greater in order to break them.

However, the amount of energy available from combustion of hydrogen in the presence of oxygen is about the same. For the purposes of this thought exercise we'll say it's equal. So we've put a certain amount of electrical energy into the system to crack all the water molecules and make them go boom, and now we need to take the energy released from the boom to push the piston, turn the crankshaft, and work against the resistance of the magneto in order to generate the electricity to make the next spark.

if you had an engine that was 100% efficient in turning the potential energy of the hydrogen/oxygen mix into rotation, you might be able to imagine something like this. But the very best internal combustion technology tops out in the low to mid 30 percent region. Then you've got friction losses from bearings, gears, and couplings, internal resistance in the magneto windings, the air resistance across the spark gap, and finally, the pin that bursts the whole bubble:

You'll never get more energy out of the H and O by burning them than you put in to crack the H2O. That would be one serious magneto in order to get the output you need, and I don't think a lawnmower engine would be up to the challenge of turning it over.

Have you got a demo unit available for testing?

Phil Stevens wrote:Hiya Russ. I'll take a puff from my pipe and spin a yarn for you:

Ohm's law was still in effect last time I checked. So if you raise the voltage you decrease the current. The amount of power in the circuit stays the same. Energy is power over time. So if the power is constant and you choose a time interval, the energy will also stay the same.

Why does this matter? Because the electrical energy does not come out of nowhere. The engine has to do some work to turn a magneto (or generator, or alternator). Whatever creates the voltage potential in the first place takes rotational power from the crankshaft. The engine has to convert fuel into expanding gas to turn the crankshaft.

Let's just imagine for a minute that firing a spark plug inside the cylinder of an internal combustion engine filled with air and salt water actually ionised all the water molecules and now it's an explosive mix of hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The water molecules were held together with a force that required an energetic discharge in the spark that was greater in order to break them.

However, the amount of energy available from combustion of hydrogen in the presence of oxygen is about the same. For the purposes of this thought exercise we'll say it's equal. So we've put a certain amount of electrical energy into the system to crack all the water molecules and make them go boom, and now we need to take the energy released from the boom to push the piston, turn the crankshaft, and work against the resistance of the magneto in order to generate the electricity to make the next spark.

if you had an engine that was 100% efficient in turning the potential energy of the hydrogen/oxygen mix into rotation, you might be able to imagine something like this. But the very best internal combustion technology tops out in the low to mid 30 percent region. Then you've got friction losses from bearings, gears, and couplings, internal resistance in the magneto windings, the air resistance across the spark gap, and finally, the pin that bursts the whole bubble:

You'll never get more energy out of the H and O by burning them than you put in to crack the H2O. That would be one serious magneto in order to get the output you need, and I don't think a lawnmower engine would be up to the challenge of turning it over.

Have you got a demo unit available for testing?

Very well stated Phil,
I would have added metal embrittlement from the hydrogen and general accelerated corrosion by the salt let alone rapid failure of the magneto. Some of the brown gas crowd claimed firing improvement when using hydrogen to supplement a traditional carb driven engine but modern fuel injection and variable timing killed those gains already.
I sense it won't make a bit of difference though.
Cheers,  David

Proper Engine Power Supply S1R9A9M9 conversion

This message is in regards to the Georgia conversions on the earlier 4,6, 8-cylinder engines used with mineral water. The shop had worked on hundreds of adjustments for years , trying to get it right. They talked about surging, rough  engines, and some actual improvement came when it was Nathren (father) who was the only one who noticed about EGR being used on the better running engines.
I had made up a list of possibilities of minor changes that I had never submitted to them, possibly they never thought of.

Today I wanted to tell you about one of those on the list. The Georgia techs used the same Inverter box on each car with the matching relays per cylinder, to make use of the inductors and diodes. Now,....... There are several types of Inverters 110v AC output. (I prefer the 220v units as diodes bank loses about 10 volts)

There is the low frequency 60 cycles as modified corrected sine wave (square waves).
The 500W 20khz high frequency open board China Inverters with multiple outputs.
The 500-600W 60 cycles pure sine wave circuit Inverter unit.

Why this is important is because Inverters also give a specification for Peak, temporary current under 40% duty cycle. Such as 400W to 800W with an associated peak amps pulse current. The cheaper quality Inverters are mostly modified sine wave. What that means is, not quality repeatable same peak current in fast pulses. It is now assumed that the Georgia techs needed to change their input power to Pure Sine Wave , more costly Inverters. It has to do with type of electrical load as resistive, inductive, etc. They had never , over the years finally corrected the engine running problem. Also, source to purchase exact special relays never found. They had been using the Green Inverter box Power On Board 400watts, modified sine wave, 12vDC to 110v AC.
I have an array of different Inverter boxes collected over time.

The shop in Georgia had converted several cars , as 4,6,8 cylinder  engines on mineral water. They all had standard alternators. The one most talked about was the 1978 Chevy ElCamino V8 running on mineral water. There was a separate 2nd battery used to run the Inverter box . The alternator charged both batteries with diode isolation box. For off idle power, the main jet in carb is re drilled about 33% larger.  The car reported to get 18MPG water, but after later reusing some of the waste exhaust drippings, the mileage went way higher , due to the addition of Nitrogen embedded in the expelled water. Smother running engine also. The other v8 on engine stand was running electrical power generator 24 hours always on. The regular alternator recharged battery, and the GENERATOR provided free electricity for work shop.  Data taken from the now shut down web forum. Spark plug electrolysis for hydrogen gas + water vapor pressure.

Any independent confirmation from third parties that this actually happened? Like actual witnesses with science and/or engineering chops who were able to fully inspect one of these vehicles and drive it and publish their findings?

Because this would have changed the course of history if it were real. There would have been multiple Nobel prizes, the fields of chemistry and physics would have been upended (textbooks rewritten, everyone going back to the drawing board) and oil companies would have gone bankrupt overnight. Or was there some sort of conspiracy to shut it all down and keep the inventors quiet?

There must be more to the story. Lots of strong whiskey has been made in the Georgia back woods. Strong enough to run an engine, if you wanted to.

I think it comes from the same lab that developed "Blinker Fluid' which is essential for the correct functioning of flashing directional lights on automobiles and motorcycles.
I have heard from a bloke who has a friend that repairs garbage trucks that it is important not to mix clear and amber Blinker Fluid,  because it creates a 'black light' which is hard to see.