Win a copy of Compost Teas for the Organic Grower this week in the Composting forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Mike Jay
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Devaka Cooray
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Dan Boone
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mandy Launchbury-Rainey
  • Mike Barkley

moveable RMH Bread/Pizza Oven

Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello people.

I am going to build my first oven in the next weeks.
Very excited =)
I will build it in a squat which is under construction still, so I wanna make it somehow movable for the worst case that it still has to change position.
Also, I am in a city, which I don't know very well and neither the language, so I wanna keep it simple for the start =)
I am sympathizing most with this style from approvecho bread oven: (p. 31)
(talking about the upper barrel system - the bottom part I will adjust a little bit to other models that seem lighter)

I was reading a lot through this forum, plus donkey23 plus facebook, but there was almost no thread about this type.
Is it very low profile, concerning heat efficiency? Or is it for another reason unpopular? Or is there just nobody with experience with it?

The question I came across: Do you think I can make the doors larger, circa 40cm, so that bigger pizza fit in? It would loose more heat, but as the oven might get very hot anyway, that wouldn't be such a big loss, I imagine.
Or is the extreme heat that people talk about (500°C in 30 minutes) something that you rather expect after collecting material with perfect scales or with better insulated stoves?

Thanks for your help and all the things that I could read already, internet is realy not that bad hehe
Posts: 4154
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
hugelkultur fungi books wofati solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mag Koep : 1st off, I want to send you to You Tube to type in Aprovecho Rocket Bread Oven into U-tubes Search Engine, This is actually a simpler build as compared to the
'made for institutional use' model from your old set of plans !

The people over at Aprovecho do not have a Forum page, or a regular blog, and thus they do not 'have a regular following', that and their turn over in personnel over the
years means that there are few people that remember a Doctrine shift that divided their membership! Today in many ways the good people at Aprovecho - are acting a
little like the 'Hermit Kingdom', while they do a lot of good work, when they reach out they mostly communicate on the level of C.E.O. to C.E.O. Notice that the video was
made by a third party and not directly By Aprovecho ! This is like a 25+ year run of 'the Peter Priniciple'!

This later led to Ianto Evans' decision to Create Cob Cottage, and the promotion of His Rocket Mass Heater R.M.H. that could be made by the poor out of scraps in third world
countries with the reproducible High Efficiencies His R.M.H. is famous for !

Add in the confusion over the years of Rocket Stoves And the similar but different Rocket Mass Heater R.M.H., with each one being called by the others name, throw in the
Pocket Rocket, to add to the confusion and - - -

There are people here at Permies who spit when they hear the Aprovecho name! Institutional memory is not always a good thing ! These are some of the reasons why not
much time is given to Aprovecho. Compare it to the number of times information is shared with 'Donkey's Forum'! *

There is a small problem because most of the people who post here at Permies are not familiar with Aprovecho's good work,(I'm going to get in trouble for using both names
in the same sentence), and the absence of a point of contact P.O.C. person there - will mean a lot of trial and likely error on your part to get this built, but I am sure I am
not the only one interested in seeing you complete this build. Please keep us informed on how your project comes along . Hope this helps, for the Good of the Craft !

Think like Fire, flow like a gas, Don't be the Marshmallow ! As always, your comments and questions are solicited and Welcome ! Pyromagically big AL

* you can try this question at ' Donkeys Forum ', Good luck ! A.L.
Posts: 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Interesting history on Aprovecho, thanks fo the info. I like some of their designs and wished that they had some forums and such to ask questions about their institutional cooker.

mag koep
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Allen, thanks, that makes things clear. weird how in the internet things sometimes look so transparent but when I get into it closer, when it becomes more personal, I get to see that it's just the same institutions behind with the same mechanisms like elsewhere which cause institutional memory... =) so thanks for sharing.

I tried to find this video that you referred to but in the end there turned out barely nothing that explained things to me as a beginner in a way that would help me through a whole oven. maybe I was blind on one eye and didn't see that video that you mentioned.

but I found this one which I really like:

and this more simple way, which I will go for:

but I will keep the message from the first video in mind and isolate as good as possible the combustion chamber and also try to find something for the upper part of the barrel
as a vehicle, I would like to try a shopping cart
unfortunately this second video exactly lacks a proper discussion under the video, which I am warned about in some of the forums. but I don't think, I will find another barrel that would fit the necessary portions, and also as I am unsure about the possibilities of building something more complex at the place where I am living at the moment..

Does anyone has an opinion about my idea?

I have collected most of the material and want to start building in a few days =)

Posts: 8306
Location: Victoria British Columbia-Canada
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was in my teens when I first became aware of Aprovecho. I learned about rocket stoves from them. I've never been able to figure out what their agenda is.

Do they want to spread their knowledge widely?

Or, is it a private club concerned with cashing in on foreign aid money.

This and other lines of inquiry about them, will keep me busy tonight.
mag koep
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello people, who are hopefully getting their bread or back heated by a self-built rocket-to-the-moon-oven,

I built the topic's pizza-oven this summer and
YES! it makes a rocket noise and the fire is drawn up the chimney
buuut it creates quite a bit of smoke
and: it comes only up to 50°C/ 120°F
so it rather serves raw-eaters than pizzas right now...

so I will explain what I did and hope that someone has a special hint, what to change.
you will recognise, that it is in all very improvised and experimented, but still maybe someone of you can point out a major factor which is not too difficult to change and might help the whole situation for a better.

on the first sketch you can see the measurements in cm
in inch they will be:
lower pipe's diameter 11cm = 4,33''
upper pipe's diameter 13cm = 5,11''
the barrel's diamter 40 cm = 15,74''
the barrel's lenght 50cm = 19,68''

unfortunately I forgot hte lengths of the pipes,
but I made sure that
b < a (though only slightly)
a = 1/3 of c (or even a little less)
c < d

somewhere I read that it's not a big deal that the upper pipe is slightly bigger in diameter than the lower. what do you think?
I know that the CSA should always stay the same, but the diagonal area, where a is attached to b and where b is attached to c will automatically be higher, so I assume it's only a rough number.
antoher matter with the upper and lower pipe is that they are not 100% above each other and the upper one is not so straight, it has a very small slope.

material and isolation:

the pipes and barrel are from metal, which I honestly cannot identify. As I checked, the lowest possible melting temperature would be 230°C/ 446°F and I only need up to 180°C/ 356°F and I didn't expect to high results anyhow.

apart from the loosely applied lit, which is situated where I marked the 40cm-diameter of the barrel, there should be no way for air to flew in where it's not supposed to be.

on the second sketch, you can make out the insulation I hope:
I made a mass from found clay and expanded clay and fireclay.
expanded clay is these small pearls which I think you can also put into indoor plants instead of earth - I crushed them to make the mass a smooth material. the fireclay I got from smashing ovenbricks.
this material is marked with stripes in the picture and was around 2cm/ 0,78'' or thicker.

the lower pipe is additionally surrounded by hollow bricks set around the mass, they are marked with dots in the sketch.

I didn't care too much about the isolation of the barrel and upper pipe, because I wanted it to heat up fastly instead of storing heat and when it releases heat, the cooking person will be happy during the cold times..

[Thumbnail for IMG_20140120_130903.jpg]
[Thumbnail for IMG_20140120_130920.jpg]
mag koep
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
about the room:
So far, I used it only inside, with the pipe out the window, therefor I attributed a bended pipe in the end, as visible in the picture in the attachment.
the room doesn't have any heating and the whole building has almost no heating, I tried it in early november in poland, when it was around 8°C/ 46°F and moist.
and yeah, there was to much smoke coming from the end of the pipe back into the room, so that it got uncomfortable :/

concerning the insides:

I used the fin-technique in the lower pipe, the heat riser (c in the sketch), which means I attached small triangles with fireproofed glue inside to speed up the gases.

and inside the barrel I experimented with putting a fireclay brick 4cm/ 1,5'' above the lower pipe-entrance (it is lieing next to the entrance in the picture)
and another piece hanging below the upper exit.

I add pictures in the attachment, I hope your eyes won't hurt from the bad quality.
I am not living in this city anymore and I get there only occasionally,
and I don't like to return without improvement ideas.

Any comments or questions?

Best regards and thank you already with a big smile,
[Thumbnail for IMG_20131117_154638kl.jpg]
[Thumbnail for IMG_20131117_154658.jpg]
[Thumbnail for IMG_20130919_151414kl.jpg]
the fins in the lower pipe
mag koep
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
and this is a picture of the installation I made inside the oven, where the pizza was once imagined inside.
[Thumbnail for IMG_20131117_155358kl.jpg]
Posts: 7
Location: Mittagong, NSW, Australia
hugelkultur tiny house
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi there, here i built one of the plan. What differs to the plan is the combustion chamber, i changed it to a j- tube from a l- tube and more added refract. 50mm fire tiles.
I wanted one mobile (tractor with pallet attachment) but still be able to bake for small cottage industry (30 to 50 loafs a week).
One big factor was not to have to preheat a mass for 6 hours or so. This one can be maintained at 220-230 Degree Celsius with heat up phase between 1.5- 2.5 hours depending what desired temp and season. So it is very good for Bread but not ideal for Pizza, which is fine for us. I used glass wool for insulation, next time i would use refractory i think. I could add some, but it works for the situation now. Very pleasing seeing bread coming out after quit a bit of work and about 800 AUD. I knew it won't be too cheap but it will stick around for a while.
[Thumbnail for IMG_0946.jpg]
[Thumbnail for IMG_0831.jpg]
Posts: 582
Location: ontario, canada
transportation fungi tiny house
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've already posted this I'm my compact RMH hybrid thread, but I have a REmovable dutch oven for my compact RMH, its only a BBQ lid that sits on my hot "barrel" top. I have yet to move the stove inside or test it with cooking, but my top produces 400-610 F, so if I'm baking bread, I might have to put it up on a baking sheet. If my temperature fluxuates, or if the barrel to gets too hot it won't burn the food in that case

[Thumbnail for bbq2.jpg]
my dutch oven is very simple, and removable from my compact RHM when not in use.
[Thumbnail for DutchOvenBbqLid.jpg]
stainless steel with temp guage possibility
The knights of nee want a shrubbery. And a tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!