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No building codes /no building dept. counties - ?  RSS feed

 
John Abacene
Posts: 114
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I know there are such places, fewer by the year, but surely SOMEONE out there might have some actual list or map or something...
If that person can post what they have, it would be very helpful to a lot of folks in the Permies !

One clue is something called the "Limited Density Rural Dwellings' program"

Another is the "K" building Code - Class K is a relaxed construction standard intended for use by owner-builders for Limited Density Rural Dwellings, which is approved by the State.
To qualify, properties must be zoned for a size of one acre or larger and the structure cannot exceed 2 stories (a half-story is where the ceiling height is less than 7 (something).
One big difference in Class K from the standard code is that all inspections are waived except the final inspection! In other words, the structure is only inspected after it is completed.
Class K came about because many people in the County built homes and appurtenant structures without permits. There needed to be a way to get these structures permitted without having to tear them down.
 
Jay C. White Cloud
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Hi John,

I understand your concern with Code (now IBC) and trying to find ways "around it," there are. As for a map, that is hard as it is changing all the time, some ways stricter, and in some ways more reasonable. You can "get around" IBC in most (if not all areas) in a very key ways...build better than IBC standard and have a PE sign off on your work.

Now there lies the rub, and why as a traditional builder, even though I don't care for jumping through the hoops of building codes, I know why they MUST, be there. People do not build as well as they think they do.

IBC is a absolute minimum of standard, and if you can't meet that, then you have issues. A PE can assist in alternative builds if (and only if) the method is of sound principle and modality. As for the other little silly things like areas that mandate plumbing types, and number of wall outlets etc. well, that is up to all of us to keep struggling to change Code to be more logical, and individualistic.

I hope someone can provide a list, but don't expect it not to change every 6 to 12 months.

Regards,

jay
 
John Abacene
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I have no problem with building safe and solid. What I would build would not only exceed any safety regulation or concern, but would likely last a few hundred years at least.
The problem is that I want to be able to buy/haul my own water for the first year or two. The building codes I am running into require me to have a well dug before anything.
That is not just expensive, but unnecessary, disrespectful of my freedom and property rights, and dictating without reason.
If I can have and provide water, separate water for fire and emergency, etc, then I have water, period.
It is no longer about building codes and safety, its about bureaucratic dictatorship. I don't respect it, and if I ever go forward, it will be my determination and joy to tie those code enforcement bureaucrats up in miles of red tape and go in circles around them to cause them the headaches and aggravation they have already caused me, and make them feel helpless to do their presumed jobs as they have made me feel trying to do what should be relatively simple.

How did our ancestors survive ?
You would think it impossible by the standards of the last few years. Well, Man survived for eons without them, our ancestors survived without them, and with our modern understanding and methods of building and everything else, we can survive without them. To think otherwise is to deny history and reality itself.
I want the same freedom my fathers had, and my forefathers had. I live by no less a Constitution than they did. I should at least be able to build a lousy shed !!!
 
Jay C. White Cloud
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The building codes I am running into require me to have a well dug before anything.


Now we are getting down to it...that is not IBC. That is a local ordinance, and the two are very different. You are correct, some are strictly bureaucratic hurdles, but many, like have a well on the property could very well have direct correlation to either fire control issues, and/or other water access issues. Sometimes it is a control method to retard development of an area by not allowing folks to simply live on the land without build. Some of these reasons are justified, some are not.

How did our ancestors survive ?


I think you are looking at history with a bit of a slant John, and not accurately in some ways. Our species survived, you have that part correct, and too many are surviving today that probably shouldn't, but that is another issue about gene pool collapse in apex species. The Great Creator, Nature, whatever you want to call her, she has a plan, and it is not always a pretty one, or to our benefit. So NO our ancestors absolutely did not survive most of the time, not by a long shot. They died by the tens of thousand and millions, and the likelihood of survival when my elders that taught me were born (1869-189 was maybe 28 to 30 years of age if you were really lucky and almost everyone new death as a very close and intimate shadow that was always near.

I don't disagree with you that the modernity of our current society we live in is broken, and that many of the bureaucracies all over this planet are taking liberties with our individual choices. Assisted suicide for the terminally ill or just the simple choice of choosing when we release these mortal coils to try it all over again is an individual right that still is trying to be control by the masses, just as a woman's right to do with her body what she will is now in jeopardy from the right wingers that would make as many decisions for the masses as long as it fit their personal agendas, and many other civil burdens that are not anyone's concern but the individual. However, that is not to say you and I can change some (all) of it in time. We can, in time, secure those same freedoms you mentioned you grandfather having, but hopefully without as much risk of a short life that he and or forbears faced.


Regards,

jay

If you want some methods that could very well get you around that "well issue," send me a private email, or give me a call. I would be glad to help you out, and keep fighting the good fight for you personal rights.
 
John Elliott
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Jay is being polite. I have found that their are two types of building departments, one that is respectful of property owners and uses code to make sure that what the owner wants is up to a good standard, and then there are the departments that want the owner to conform to the rules they lay down (and woe to those that will not submit). In my own limited experience, California and Las Vegas are examples of the latter, while in the South they are still polite enough to remember that "a man's home is his castle".
 
Kelly Smith
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Location: In a rain shadow - Fremont County, Southern CO
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John Abacene wrote:I know there are such places, fewer by the year, but surely SOMEONE out there might have some actual list or map or something...
If that person can post what they have, it would be very helpful to a lot of folks in the Permies !


there used to be a good map on the earthship website:
http://earthship.com/grand-central/pockets-of-freedom#!/catid=1;3;4

it used to code the counties with green or red based on building codes [mainly centered around allowing earthships], but the map seems a bit wonky to me now. not sure if its my work proxy or if the site is no longer current...
i do see some info about counties on the right side of the page that dont have building codes.

hope this helps.
 
Dorcas Brown
Posts: 23
Location: west central Missouri
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Try Bates Count Missouri. Several small towns. Only two stop lights. County seat is Butler.
 
J.T. Croteau
Posts: 34
Location: NH and MO
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No building codes, and cheap taxes, where I have my land, Texas County Missouri.
 
Dorcas Brown
Posts: 23
Location: west central Missouri
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Technically I was wrong because the new intersection near the new Walmart Supercenter [small] has more than one light. If you are interested in Missouri the advertising weekly's e-mail address is www.yourxgroup.com. They have papers for other rural areas.
There have been two auctions lately of property that were absolute auctions. The highest bid got the property no matter what price.I don't know about undeveloped land but property here in town is not selling very high.
It would be nice to have enough Permies close enough to have some face to face interaction once in a while. A RMH is in my plans but without help it will wait until spring/
 
Kat Green
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Dear John, You mentioned in another thread that you encountered restrictions in Arizona. I have been checking online and emailing to the code dept in Cochise County, Az. They have an owner builder opt-out option that requires inspection only of the electric system and the septic system (which is required no matter what option you use, but don't tell them that you are going to use a composting toilet because they will charge you an extra $750 for a permit). Total cost of permits including septic permit is $1000. You are also required to have the septic plan approved by a licensed person ($500 roughly) but you don't have to have it professionally installed. They do say that they still expect you to observe all of the codes but they don't inspect for them.!? Most of the county has 12-20 inches of annual rainfall and rainwater harvesting is allowed and also water delivery. Have you been given other information? Or were you looking at another county? I have already purchased my land so I really need to know. Land there is about $1000 per acre for larger parcels. I got a deal for $500 per acre 2 years ago and owner financing so negotiate. Maybe I had better hurry up and build before they change their minds!
 
Paul Bonneau
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There is no problem with building code per se. The problem is that they are mandatory (a form of tyranny), rather than being guidelines to be used by the property owner (or not) as he pleases.

I believe most of Wyoming has little mandatory code; the area where my house is, permits/inspects only wells and septic installations (and people often "forget" to notify the authorities about the latter). Inside the towns there probably are some codes, particularly having to do with fire because those older downtown areas are very much dried out and a fire could take a whole city block.

The other good thing about Wyoming is that it is a small-town state, so the bureaucrats have to live among the rest of us peons, and there is little anonymity. I believe that tends to restrain the more abusive ones. However Wyoming is very conservative, and crunchy granola types tend not to fit in too well.
 
Bryant RedHawk
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Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
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In most of the southern states if you are outside of city limits, there are few requirements to follow code. However, code is a bare minimum and if you don't want to risk your castle falling down while you are sleeping, it's a great idea to use them to build by, especially when it comes to electric and gas, those codes are there to prevent horrors ( house go boom (it blowed up, it blowed up good), burning down the house) from happening. Also a good idea is to follow plumbing/sewer code, no one wants to be smelling refuse or have backups in the bathroom.

County ordinances can be found pretty easily and usually if you ask politely, you could be given ways to get around some of them by the very people that enforce them.

If you go to states with large populations, you will always find more restrictions/requirements than if you go to rural type states.
 
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