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Leah Sattler
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I gotta get this out.

our american founders/forefathers fought for freedom. they weren't fighting for the freedom to have a lawn or wear/not wear a seatbelt or cuss or be naked in public. they fought to be the ones ultimately in control of their government. to practice any religion or none without persecution. to speak out against the government without threat. to have basic human rights that were not available in their native land.

the concept of freedom has been so trivialized to encompass such frivolous stupid things that it is insulting.

there. I feel better
 
Chuck Freeman
Posts: 116
Location: Southcentral Alaska
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It's no longer freedom It's "my rights" pretty sad.
 
                          
Posts: 40
Location: Portland Oregon
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Every society needs rules to survive.  If you live in a society of "many", then you need to obey the rules that control that society.  If you step outside that "society of many" to live on your "own", you need to obey your "own" rules.  It's when your rules and societys rules conflict that problems happen.

The people who moved to this country from Europe were an ornery bunch of buggers. But they understood that to live together they needed rules. So they wrote three documents.  The Declaration of Independance, The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

Every generation since then has had the job of defining just what those ornery buggers were trying to say. Sometimes we do a good job, sometimes a lousey job.  But never give up, never surrender, never stop fighting. It's too important.
 
Brenda Groth
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Location: North Central Michigan
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free, yup..not so much anymore
 
                          
Posts: 94
Location: Colorado
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good thread,  Leah
 
Daniel Zimmermann
Posts: 122
Location: Sacramento
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http://appleseedinfo.org/

This is how I am trying to return us to the land of the free.
 
                          
Posts: 40
Location: Portland Oregon
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Perhaps I was misunderstood.
It's not government that is the problem. And never was, even back in 1776 the British government was not the problem.  It's who CONTROLS the government that is, was and always will be the problem. Back in 1776 the British government was controlled by the wealthy British Aristocracy.  The American Colonies were simply a business investment.

The reason for the revolution was the ornery buggers who moved to the colonies to get away from being beholden to the wealthy aristocracy in the old world.  They wanted to do their own thing without interference from the people who "owned” the old world and thought they owned the new world.

Ever since 1776 it's been a knock down, drag through the mud brawl between big money and the common people. Back then it was a “big money aristocracy through birth”, now it's simply a “big money aristocracy”.

And that’s as simple as I can make it; what controlled the colonial government in 1775 was money, since 1776 the common people have been fighting with the big money aristocracy to control the government. And frankly folks, we are in the “Valley Forge” of this fight, we are up against the ropes and the ref is counting down.

As for my ranting about rules, if what you did in no way affected me, we would not need rules.  BUT, there are so many of us in this world that whatever you do will, somehow sometime affect me.  SO, we need rules to make sure that what each of us does, does not negatively affect each other.
Hank
 
I am going down to the lab. Do NOT let anyone in. Not even this tiny ad:
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