rose macaskie wrote:
Maikertu, My son decided to whatch all films in english and that helped his english, maybe you can whatch films in spanish.
I dont know that it is a good book list it is the books i know of ion the theme in spanish, I have not made it my job to make sure i know the best books in Spanish on ht etheme. It i sjust some boooks in spanisyh on the topic. I used to have one agricultural book shop in the street that this one leads off and another one one door away from my mother in laws, it is as if some force had put me down next to all the agricaltural book shops of madrid i live in the very centre of madrid it is not to be expected tha ttheir should be an agricutural bok shop at every street corner of the capital of a big city unless it is near a university and the university book shops are not on my main fod shopping routes, my interest in reducing desertification and the books shops i needed put just within such easy reach of me as a house keeper was enough to make me believe in magic. They have all shut down know.
Paul wheaton knows i go wildly anti catholic though i was bought up cahtolic but without knowing the sort of catholicism they serve out to adults, which is a lot more frightening than the one they serve out to children, so having me write a bit in spanish which makes it hard for him to know what i am up to must be a bit nerve racking for him. I only write inflamatory stuff on his site in english, that is open to his control, on his site at any rate. agri rose macakskie.
rose macaskie wrote:
maikeru i have just been looking through to see if i had mentioned Juan Oría y Ruedas y Salguero's book guia de Árboles y Arbustos de Castilla y Leon, and i have not seen it in thick type on this thread so i suppose I hadnot got round to mentioning it yet, and i think it is an important book.
I can't remember all i have already written before paul wheaton said he would rather i did not write things he could not read, not suprising as i can get on to highly charged and polemic themes.
This book is not a permaculture book but it tells you so much about the old uses of plants in Spain as to be a very useful book to a permaculturists. It is an easy way to find plants that might be of use to us for one reason or other that the permauclturist has not already thought of.
Juan Oria de la Rueda y Salguero knows about history and the classics as well as about plants, he works as a professor in botanicca and fitosociology at the university of Valladolid. He has a degree from the university of Madrid, as an agricultural expert specialising in sylvo passtoral regimes.
As a historian he knows for example that holly was as well as is used as browse plant for horses, which is useful information because it is green in winter. THat there used to be ordenances obliging all families, even widows and the parish preists, to plant oaks and loook after the saplings, they were so usefull to the population and what the rules were for taking the wood or the foliage as browse of the oaks to stop them from being destoyed by the population. THat you can use the sticky juice of the cystus to tar roads with.
It is not a dead cheap book but though it does not look very big there is so much information on each of the bushes and trees that he mentions that it should be considered three books and so dead cheap.
I have to write down this information in Spanish too. Tomorrow, agri rose macaskie.
rose macaskie wrote:
I like to plant the local plants, and i would like to conserve the local habitats i think you can and should do it, but though urbanization don’t have all local plants i dont think that urbanisations lead to desertification. I have known one village where gardening was not fashionable yet and so the presence of chalets did not mean the planting of trees and plants but in a lot of places in Spain places that are built up with chalets are much greener than other places.
Permaculture is, of course, a discipline designed to make the diet of those that grow their own food more complete and so includes all foreign plants that will grow in the climateof a permaculturists garden that are eatable andas it is geared to to making it cheap to do so, it is designed to help the poor and those who want to free themselves from the yoke of boring jobs and so includes introducing plants that will better the soil quickest and so is against the interests of those who are interested in preserving the natural plants of the place. Both aims are worthy ones, they are not in sync with each other however.
It is because of farming, to make room for wheat that I see lots of slopes slowly lose their natural covering of junipers or oaks and the land beginning to look like all wheat farming land all over the world does begins to lose its natural plants. Soon Spains beautiful natural pastures full of all sorts of flowers, daisies and escorbus and things like plantain, natural pastures, that are just becoming fashionable in England, but that in many places never got lost, will be lost, not to urbanization but the plough and more modern pasture plants, the grasses alpha alphas and clovers of the big industrial seed companies.
I know of people who are scared of foreign and invasive plants or rather only want the ones that are natural to there, my neighbor for example. If my observation is right it has lead him to kill a plant, viburnum lanten, at the bottom of bit of land that is next to mine that has no owner and is between my garden and his, at any rate someone cleaned up the plants of this type on the other side of the fence down by the river from me, those on my side of the fence are still there. This plant is included in Juan Oria de la Rueda y Salgueros book of plants that are natural to Castilla and Leon though it is also sold in nurseries as a garden bush.
This neiughbor of mine likes the plants natural to the place and so does not plant plants that are from other places but he has greatly reduced the biodiversity in his garden maybe because he did not see anything as natural to there. what he has left are juniperus thurifera elms and grass, while mine is full of the plants that are natural to it though i also plant exotic plants and have introduced some plants that are natural to the centre of Spain though they didn't grow in the garden such as the euonymus european L. that has a berry like a shocking pink flower that i have grown from seed collected in woods in the Escorial.
I give here a list of some of the plants I have in my garden that are natural to it. In my garden I have three types of oak, quercus pyrenaica, ilex and faginea, juniperus thurifera, the viburnum lanten, I have mentioned above, catharthic buckthorn, jasmine fruticans, a privet tree, ligustrum vulagaris, they are natural here though they are also grown as hedges, two types of honey suckle and I have seen a third type in the fields in nearby, two types of cystus, sloes, wild plums, may, one sort of willow, dog roses, blackberries lavender and there are about five sorts of native willows in and around the village two types of sorbus domestica and aries, there are also several rhamnus, buckthorn type trees, alder buck thorn and catharcic buckthorn, and rhamnus saxatilis.
I have also planted autoctonous plants, I look up autoctonous plants in Juan Oria de la Rueda y Salgueros book, “guia de Árboles y Arbustos de Castilla y Leon, that grow nearby like the, pistacia terebinthos, that I have seen in the fields in the next door village, I have seen both pistacea terebinthos and the atlanticos, which is similar with different flowers, a maple of Montpellier, there are lots at the other side of the village, two sorbus’s the domestica and the aries, like the maples there are lots of sorbuses in th efields at the other side of the village, euonymus europea that I grew from seeds collected from the woods in the Escorial, it has berries that look like a shocking pink flower, the common juniper and there are commun junipers around the village, Amelanchier ovallis.
Here is a list of some of the smaller plants that grew in my garden before I went there and still do so. Horses celery, smyrnium perifolium, thapsia villosa, arctstaphylos, uvi ursi. Solanum dulcamara,verbascum pulverulentum, time, cystus, iris planifolia, orchids, clavelinas, I think the boar has eaten them, wild garlick, cranes bills, chicory dandy lions to mention a few of the plants in the garden that occur grew there as volunteers as permaculturists say, so I do more to preserve the natural plants than others who say they are interested in them but obliterate them as weeds. There are a lot of other plants in the garden that have appeared there or were already there.
I plant foreign plants but I also look after the ones that are natural to the place. Agri rose macaskie.
rose macaskie wrote:
I feel strongly abour both postures, i love the local vegetation and i think that making a system like the permacuulture one that will give people who dont have much money lots of food and a varied diet is so important and it does often include the introduction of maybe of even invasive plants.
They use a water fern in rice paddies that gives a lot of fertility to the paddy feilds it is apparently very invasive, still they seem to control if in eastern countries where they know it.
It grows very fast so by pulling it off the surface of the pond every mounth you get lots of vegetable matter to use as compost.
Apparently this water fern might have been part of the end of the last global warming epoc, it covered the great lakes and cooled down the world. I have to look it up to explain why maybe it absorbes masses of carbon.
Black berries are invasive in my garden but i get lots of exercise cutting them down, that is when i dont leave them, as they provide a thorney refuge for fauna birds and such. without us i suppose the whole of europe would be a bramble pach.
Australia is so big it is hard to restrain plants by cutting them down but here i think we can.
there is some water weed eating up the mediteranean invasive foriegn plants are something that can be terrible. It is a difficult question.
Spain has absolutely milesw of wild alnd that can be spoilt by fertiliser but not by housing except maybe on the sea coast.
There are more wild plants than the ones i gave in my garden. people need to learn the aspect at any rate of wild plants or they pull them up.
It is not just farming that makes for the destruction of the natural flora in Spain it is also cultural, many people want spain to look like the north of europe, as far as i can make out. They despise their natural plants such as enebros and usually know very little about plants so they dont even recognise the wild life. They laugh at me for not knowing all the rivers and mountain tops, even of england, well they are incredibly ignorant about plant life so you get people who in theory protect the local fauna and who in fact know nothing about it and dont notice if its disappearing, only if i am
It is illegal to chop them down but whops an accident here and another there and suddenly a wheat feild or a olive grove appears where there were woods and olives are so over prunned and the ground at theire feet is so bare that they can only b ethought of as somthign that spoils soils fertilised i suppose with chemicals as ther is nothign in olive grooves to enrich the soils natuarlly. I bet they put weed killers to keep down th egrass at their feet.
htere are five different sort of juniper in Spain three where my house is the common the thurifera and the oxcyccedrus.
Also if they use a lot of herbicides on the ground at the feet of junipers then slowly the trees get weakened and in the end the pepole responsible for the fauna and flora will giv etherir permidsion for the trees to be taken down as they seem inviable.
Residential areas can mean more paving and roofs but maybe we will have to paint our roofs white to reflect the sunlight back so reducing global warming at the moment illegal i suppose as it does not fit in with the traditional look of the village. and there are white reflctive paht an droad surfaces and also road surfaces that let water through look up Chixago alley clean up . I wil write about that later.
this is agressive it is spaniards who have taught me to take up themes agressively if that will help the good of all. agri rose macaskie
rose macaskie wrote:It is not just farming that makes for the destruction of the natural flora in Spain it is also cultural, many people want spain to look like the north of europe, as far as i can make out. They despise their natural plants such as enebros and usually know very little about plants so they dont even recognise the wild life. They laugh at me for not knowing all the rivers and mountain tops, even of england, well they are incredibly ignorant about plant life so you get people who in theory protect the local fauna and who in fact know nothing about it and dont notice if its disappearing, only if i am
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