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Need help finding info on several apple varieties

 
Jordan Struck
Posts: 65
Location: Oregon (zone 7b), 31.3 inches/yr rainfall
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Please help me answer the following questions (please include source of info if possible):

**Arkansas Black:
- What pollination/flowering group?
- Tannin (%)?
- Malic acid (g/L)?

**Campfield:
- Pollination/flowering group?
- Self-fertile or self-sterile?
- Ploidy?
- Disease susceptibilities/resistances?

**Dymock Red:
- Pollination/flowering group?
- Ploidy?

**Harrison:
- Pollination/flowering group?
- Fertility?
- Ploidy?
- Disease susceptibilities/resistances?

**Royal Somerset (there are many Somersets, but this seems to be a particularly rare variety):
- Flowering/pollination group?
- Disease susceptibilities/resistances?
- Brix?
- pH?
- Tannin (%)?
- Malic acid (g/L)?

**Stoke Red:
- Ploidy?

**Sweet Coppin:
- Flowering/pollination group?
- Ploidy?

**Yates:
- Flowering/pollination group?
- Fertility?
- Ploidy?
- Disease susceptibilities/resistances?
- pH?
- Tannin (%)?
- Malic acid (g/L)?

THANKS!
 
allen lumley
pollinator
Posts: 4153
Location: Northern New York Zone4-5 the OUTER 'RONDACs percip 36''
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Jordan Struck : If I'm Wrong I'm sure some one will correct me ! Apples cant be self pollinating, even accepting pollen from Crabapple trees !

All apple trees come from Cuttings, and often grafted onto Crabapple rootstock, 20 years is old for an apple tree on Crabapple root stock !

Because the apples pollinate so universally, the chance of saving apple seeds and getting a Tree with anything but spitters (just good enough
to make cider !) are notoriously poor ! You should be able to google the information you want ! Big AL.
 
John Polk
steward
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Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
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Some apples are self-pollinating. I previously posted a list of about 5 dozen varieties that my research had shown to be self-fertile. The list is NOT complete, as it only covers the ones that I found by browsing several vendor's lists.

SEE: http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/list/7503#67370 for the list. Sweet Coppin was the only one on that list from your list, but as I said, that only entails the ones that I had found data on. Many of yours are older varieties that few vendors would stock, so subsequently, they were not amongst the varieties I was able to investigate.

I checked your list against the stock that Trees of Antiquity sells. The only one he had was the Campfield. He states that it is from New Jersey (1817), and a cider apple that blends best with Harrison Crab.
Hope this helps somewhat.
See attachment from his site:
APPLE - Campfield.PNG
[Thumbnail for APPLE - Campfield.PNG]
 
Ann Torrence
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Location: Torrey, UT; 6,840'/2085m; 7.5" precip; 125 frost-free days
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Jordan,

Finding useful cider apple data is not easy, and I've been researching it for a few years now. This is tough because most of the data from the UK on their apples may or may not be of use here, and even east vs west in the US is probably not all that helpful. Our Harrison went in last year, has not bloomed yet. I have been trying to get Campfield but my nursery couldn't get the scions for it last year or this year. While I have seen a few bloom order charts that are probably mostly correct, I haven't seen anyone divide them into pollination groups the way Orange Pippin for example does, with the numbers. WSU Mt Vernon has some data on bloom order, I think so does Steve Wood at Farnum Hill (maybe on his website). I suggest you join the cider digest forum and search their archives for these specific varieties, there is probably a lot of info there from people asking the same questions over time.

My husband remembers that there's also a table on cider apple data out of an unpublished Cornell master's thesis we saw in Peter Mitchell's class, could probably be found on line. One thing I have done is put in some crabs: Chestnut, Geneva, Wickson, Kerr, to give an extra pollen source.

Your malic acid and tannin numbers are just guidelines. No cider-maker I have met has wanted to even contemplate terroir, but your year to year differences (WSU did some studies) are so variable that you can't say with certainty what you will get. The best advice we have heard is that "you are always scrounging for acid." But again, that depends on whether you are doing American, British or some other style.

There's a class at WSU Mt. Vernon on growing cider apples coming up in a couple weeks. That instructor is pretty well known, might be a good investment of a day and $95 to go since you are in state. There's an organic cider maker/orchardist in Pt Townsend that would probably be helpful if he has time.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://richsoil.com/email
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