Tyler Ludens wrote:
R Ranson wrote: That's why I'm such a fan of the Wheaton Eco-Scale, and other ideas that embrace permaculture as a sliding scale.
Have you gotten beyond Level 2 or 3? I have a hard time seeing how someone could without either choosing to be "poor" (turning off grid connections, quitting job, etc) or being quite wealthy (even by First World standards).
charlotte anthony wrote:
Now I am back in the U.S. and have chosen to move to a desert environment in Eastern Oregon, where there is only 8-16 inches of rain a year to demonstrate how drought tolerant crops can be grown without irrigation that will actually increase rain in the area. And more money can be made from this than from growing wine grapes. this is posted on permies under the region cascadia and also under food forests as Terra Lingua, Eastern Oregon.
charlotte anthony wrote:i already posted one of the projects that i did in India where i grew wonderful crops on 5 acres of pure sand mainly subsoil. this was a dry land planting with a failed monsoon. we did not get more than 1 inch of rain during the whole growing season, and it was mainly in the form of mist. only once did we have to look for shelter to avoid getting once, the rain was that light.
the corn was 10 feet tall. tomatoes, beans, eggplant, lots of medicinals.
C. Letellier wrote: I think we should be using the absolute best of both worlds where permaculture puts certain things off limits without really exploring if they are good or bad in general or on a case by case basis.
William James wrote:I'm doing permaculture. Not very well, but I'm trying hard. Same with the money thing.
There are people out there who are doing some sort of agro-ecology -- doing good for the land -- and getting a decent livelyhood. And not just people teaching about it, if that erks people.
Hopefully what I'm building will come to fruition and it will do both the ecology thing and earn money for me. But it is certainly nowhere near as easy as I imagined in the beginning.
I think that's why you don't hear a bazillion more success stories. It's not easy and like everything worth having, it takes time, money, and hard work to get things off the ground.
Tyler Ludens wrote:"The kitchen garden is Nadia Lawton’s baby — and very productive it is, supplying the bulk of the 25,000 — 30,000 meals served every year." http://permaculture.org.au/2012/06/01/zaytuna-farm-video-tour-apr-may-2012-ten-years-of-revolutionary-design/
charlotte anthony wrote:nikkos, it is far easier, and therefore more cost effective, to use the permaculture techniques i use on broad acre scale as well as market gardening scale than the practices that chemical farmers or organic farmers use.
another farmer on this property is growing vegetables. because the land he is using is very compacted he is taking out the soil in a 6 x 6 inch area where his tomato plants will grow (in the greenhouse). he is replacing it with compost, fish emulsion, etc.
i would (and i explained this all to him, but he believes it will take years so he is going on as before), plant 12 grasses and legumes (50% of each) and spray with microbes. i would wait a month, then i would cut holes in this and plant the tomato plants it has been my experience that the ground would be soft at this time. it will too late in one month to seed the tomato plants directly, but if he had done this a month ago, i would recommend seeding the tomatoe plants directly. (or even two months ago in the greenhouse) i would take out enough of the cover crop to allow light to get to the tomatoes every 4 feet. or as the greenhouse here gets into the 130's in the summer i might even lead the grasses for shade.
on the 12 acres where he is now planting, i would spray with the microbes. there is already rye grass growing there. i would seed into the rye grass a mixture grasses and legumes. i would do a no till planting of all vegetables (he is growing a lot of squash so this is easy.).
again please see gabe brown to see how he is succeeding on 2000 acres with similar technics.
i am not talking long term here, these technics will soften the compact soil within a month. please see the thread about a story of microbes.
Tyler Ludens wrote:As I understand it from reading the Designers Manual, permaculture is a system of design based on a set of ethics, not a set of farming techniques. People here seem to be questioning if specific techniques work, not if the design system works.
If people skip the design process and just go to try some specific techniques, such as mulching, why would they expect better success than just trying some techniques and not calling it permaculture?