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Starting sea buckthorn, black locust, and Siberian pea shrub from seeds
posted 2 years ago
I just starting my food forest in New Hampshire zone 5a. I am looking to start nitrogen fixers from seeds.
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.
I have Siberian tree shrub seeds and seaberry that I haven't planted yet. Is it too late to start them as seedlings and transplant this year or would I be better off planting them directly in the ground?
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.
I have Siberian tree shrub seeds and seaberry that I haven't planted yet. Is it too late to start them as seedlings and transplant this year or would I be better off planting them directly in the ground?
Stefan Sobkowiak
permaculture orchardist
Posts: 118
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posted 2 years ago
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Kate Muller wrote:I just starting my food forest in New Hampshire zone 5a. I am looking to start nitrogen fixers from seeds.
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.
I have Siberian tree shrub seeds and seaberry that I haven't planted yet. Is it too late to start them as seedlings and transplant this year or would I be better off planting them directly in the ground?
Kate if you have an area free of competition plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better. Make sure you identify the area well since they may only come up next year if they didn't have enough chilling over the winter.
Topher Belknap
Posts: 205
Location: Midcoast Maine (zone 5b)
posted 2 years ago
Stefan Sobkowiak wrote:...plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better.
Can you say some more about why the full moon makes germination better? I have read that it has to do with the water table being higher (analogous with tides). But I don't see how this could be the case, because if the ground water was acting like the tides, one would want to plant during high tide, not full moon. And thus at 6 o'clock during a quarter moon (or noon at a new moon) would be a better time to plant that 3pm during a full moon.
Thank You Kindly,
Topher
Energy Curmudgeon
Green Fret Consulting
Stefan Sobkowiak
permaculture orchardist
Posts: 118
10
posted 2 years ago
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Topher Belknap wrote:Stefan Sobkowiak wrote:...plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better.
Can you say some more about why the full moon makes germination better? I have read that it has to do with the water table being higher (analogous with tides). But I don't see how this could be the case, because if the ground water was acting like the tides, one would want to plant during high tide, not full moon. And thus at 6 o'clock during a quarter moon (or noon at a new moon) would be a better time to plant that 3pm during a full moon.
Thank You Kindly,
Topher
Topher your first statement is correct. The water table rises. By seeding 3-4 days before you aim to have the seed soak for a few days, sprout near the full mon,and then chase the reseeding water table as it drops a little every night. Result is a well established taproot that goes down deep.
posted 2 years ago
Kate Muller wrote:
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.
Don't forget Honey Locust. I've had much greater germination rates with HL than with BL.
What temperature were you using to soak the BL? With HL 190° seems best but I wonder if that's too hot for BL?
My project thread
Agriculture collects solar energy two-dimensionally; but silviculture collects it three dimensionally.
Paulo Bessa
pollinator
Posts: 340
Location: Portugal (zone 9) and Iceland (zone 5)
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The sea buckthorn and siberian pea seeds need to be cold stratisfied, submitted to some moist and chilly/freezing weather.
The honey locust germinates only after scarification, for example, a small knife cut on the seed hard coating, to allow water to enter the seed.
I have grown all of the 3 from seed. If you grow them indoors first, be careful that the sea buckthorn (and the honey locust) are sensitive to be killed by spider mites. Also use a sandy soil for these 3 nitrogen fixing plants, to avoid root rot.
Don't forget elaeagnus, another good nitrogen fixing species. Also a lot more for those with less frost: leucanea, carob, casuarina, tagasaste, pigeon pea...
The honey locust germinates only after scarification, for example, a small knife cut on the seed hard coating, to allow water to enter the seed.
I have grown all of the 3 from seed. If you grow them indoors first, be careful that the sea buckthorn (and the honey locust) are sensitive to be killed by spider mites. Also use a sandy soil for these 3 nitrogen fixing plants, to avoid root rot.
Don't forget elaeagnus, another good nitrogen fixing species. Also a lot more for those with less frost: leucanea, carob, casuarina, tagasaste, pigeon pea...
Our projects:
in Portugal, sheltered terraces facing eastwards, high water table, uphill original forest of pines, oaks and chestnuts. 2000m2
in Iceland: converted flat lawn, compacted poor soil, cold, windy, humid climate, cold, short summer. 50m2
posted 2 years ago
Cj Verde wrote:Kate Muller wrote:
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.
Don't forget Honey Locust. I've had much greater germination rates with HL than with BL.
What temperature were you using to soak the BL? With HL 190° seems best but I wonder if that's too hot for BL?
For the Black Locust seeds I boiled some water, poured it into a small canning jar, and left it on the counter overnight. I had a little less than half of them germinate in a potting mix of half coconut coir and half compost. I have 55 seedlings right now that are just starting to get their first true leaves.
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Posts: 964
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
75
posted 2 years ago
When I soaked black locust seeds in room-temperature water for a day or two, at least half of them swelled up.
Works at a residential alternative high school in the Himalayas SECMOL.org . "Back home" is Cape Cod, E Coast USA.
Joshua Parke
Posts: 75
Location: Northern New Mexico, Latitude:35 degrees N, Elevation:6000'
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posted 2 years ago
To be cold stratified, does the seed need to be in contact with something moist through the process? Or will the seeds germinate if the pods were outside all winter hanging in the tree? I've been finding some larger type of pods that have been in the tree all year, and when I see them on the ground I pick them up. " I don't know what type of legume tree it is. It's a big tree with large brown pods that curl, maybe a foot or so in length if straight." And then I've been picking black locust pods up off the ground, but these ones may have been on the ground through the winter.
My Food Forest - Mile elevation. Zone 6a. Southern Idaho
Rebecca Norman
gardener
Posts: 964
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5
75
posted 2 years ago
I think stratification only happens when the seeds are in contact with damp. Seeds that are kept dry and cold are in good long storage.
Works at a residential alternative high school in the Himalayas SECMOL.org . "Back home" is Cape Cod, E Coast USA.
