Starting sea buckthorn, black locust, and Siberian pea shrub from seeds

I just starting my food forest in New Hampshire zone 5a. I am looking to start nitrogen fixers from seeds.

I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.

I have Siberian tree shrub seeds and seaberry that I haven't planted yet. Is it too late to start them as seedlings and transplant this year or would I be better off planting them directly in the ground?

Kate Muller wrote:I just starting my food forest in New Hampshire zone 5a. I am looking to start nitrogen fixers from seeds.

I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.

I have Siberian tree shrub seeds and seaberry that I haven't planted yet. Is it too late to start them as seedlings and transplant this year or would I be better off planting them directly in the ground?

Kate if you have an area free of competition plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better. Make sure you identify the area well since they may only come up next year if they didn't have enough chilling over the winter.

Stefan Sobkowiak wrote:...plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better.

Can you say some more about why the full moon makes germination better? I have read that it has to do with the water table being higher (analogous with tides). But I don't see how this could be the case, because if the ground water was acting like the tides, one would want to plant during high tide, not full moon. And thus at 6 o'clock during a quarter moon (or noon at a new moon) would be a better time to plant that 3pm during a full moon.

Thank You Kindly,
Topher

Topher Belknap wrote:

Stefan Sobkowiak wrote:...plant them now or soon we are coming to a full moon so the germination will be better.

Can you say some more about why the full moon makes germination better? I have read that it has to do with the water table being higher (analogous with tides). But I don't see how this could be the case, because if the ground water was acting like the tides, one would want to plant during high tide, not full moon. And thus at 6 o'clock during a quarter moon (or noon at a new moon) would be a better time to plant that 3pm during a full moon.

Thank You Kindly,
Topher

Topher your first statement is correct. The water table rises. By seeding 3-4 days before you aim to have the seed soak for a few days, sprout near the full mon,and then chase the reseeding water table as it drops a little every night. Result is a well established taproot that goes down deep.

Kate Muller wrote:
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.

Don't forget Honey Locust. I've had much greater germination rates with HL than with BL.
What temperature were you using to soak the BL? With HL 190° seems best but I wonder if that's too hot for BL?

The sea buckthorn and siberian pea seeds need to be cold stratisfied, submitted to some moist and chilly/freezing weather.

The honey locust germinates only after scarification, for example, a small knife cut on the seed hard coating, to allow water to enter the seed.

I have grown all of the 3 from seed. If you grow them indoors first, be careful that the sea buckthorn (and the honey locust) are sensitive to be killed by spider mites. Also use a sandy soil for these 3 nitrogen fixing plants, to avoid root rot.

Don't forget elaeagnus, another good nitrogen fixing species. Also a lot more for those with less frost: leucanea, carob, casuarina, tagasaste, pigeon pea...

Cj Verde wrote:

Kate Muller wrote:
I started black locust seeds a month ago and they are starting to sprout.

Don't forget Honey Locust. I've had much greater germination rates with HL than with BL.
What temperature were you using to soak the BL? With HL 190° seems best but I wonder if that's too hot for BL?

For the Black Locust seeds I boiled some water, poured it into a small canning jar, and left it on the counter overnight. I had a little less than half of them germinate in a potting mix of half coconut coir and half compost. I have 55 seedlings right now that are just starting to get their first true leaves.

When I soaked black locust seeds in room-temperature water for a day or two, at least half of them swelled up.

To be cold stratified, does the seed need to be in contact with something moist through the process? Or will the seeds germinate if the pods were outside all winter hanging in the tree? I've been finding some larger type of pods that have been in the tree all year, and when I see them on the ground I pick them up. " I don't know what type of legume tree it is. It's a big tree with large brown pods that curl, maybe a foot or so in length if straight." And then I've been picking black locust pods up off the ground, but these ones may have been on the ground through the winter.

I think stratification only happens when the seeds are in contact with damp. Seeds that are kept dry and cold are in good long storage.