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coopering...making wooden buckets

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

I spent some time in my husband's cooper shop attempting a bit of a photo documentation of his work, the tools used and some history of bucket coopering. He apprenticed locally with a student of Alex Stewart's fifteen years ago. Alex Stewart was interviewed in the third Foxfire book. My husbands teacher taught at the John C. Campbell folk school for several years.
Printed text and coopered items all credited to my husband unless noted otherwise.

Please ask questions if you have any....If he does any coopering this year I'll add some pictures of the process. He's been busy making pitchforks and carving spoons and bowls so far.

I'll be posting pictures of coopered vessels and the tools used to make them along with other bucket cooper shop work including spoons and bowls.

and a link to his work MAKING WOODEN PITCHFORKS

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

This is a great video of Alex Stewart who taught my husband's teacher..........check out the bib overalls:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTb2zVpQGg4&feature=player_detailpage

hemp rope handled cedar water bucket....water tight once water swells the wood....cattail fluff is used to seal the bottom.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

these pictures are an example of how the staves are shaped to fit together. In this small example, ones fingers are used for the 'key stone' to hold the gap while the last stave is put in place..then the hoops are knocked down tightly to hold the staves in place until wooden hoops are added.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

PIGGINS!.......a small bucket with one stave extended as the handle.

These are made from local eastern red cedar, split from the log...both the staves and head (bottom) are red cedar.

The white oak hoops are split from carefully selected white oak growing out back on our land.

The bottom is sealed with cattail fluff!

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

a small washtub....

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

tools....my pictures overlap so there are some repeats...I wanted to give a picture of the wall from left to right. His shop at home is nowhere near so neat:) These are all of his woodworking tools ...not just the ones used for coopering.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Gary Lewis

Posts: 132

Location: Maine, USA

posted 5 years ago

Wow - these are beautiful. Pieces of art! Thanks for sharing.

Gaz
www.almostafarmer.com

Http://www.startoffhomesteading.com
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Jerry Ward

Posts: 225

Location: S.E. Michigan - Zone 6a

posted 5 years ago

Can you provide some detail on the white oak bands? How are they formed and what keeps them tight?

Thanks,
Jerry

P.S. This is a skill I would love to learn, but too many other demands on my time.

Starting on developing a 10 acre permaculture homestead in a sub-urban area. see http://www.my10acres.info

cate white

Posts: 4

posted 5 years ago

This is outstanding to see. Thanks so much for posting. I always wondered what the surname 'Cooper' meant too.

Scott Stiller

Posts: 309

Location: North Carolina zone 7

posted 5 years ago

This is hardcore awesome. Real craftsmanship in a functional product. Thanks for posting.

Nothing makes sense until I venture outside

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

Thanks, everyone...I am enjoying this also!

Jerry Ward wrote:Can you provide some detail on the white oak bands? How are they formed and what keeps them tight?

Thanks,
Jerry

P.S. This is a skill I would love to learn, but too many other demands on my time.

Jerry, I'll be posting an answer soon...

....a couple more pictures. This is a lidded table ware bowl with spoon....used for sugar, mustard, honey...condiments for the table.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

Jerry Ward wrote:Can you provide some detail on the white oak bands? How are they formed and what keeps them tight?

...the answer from S.

"The hoops are made with the same basic green-woodworking (of white oak) technology as the pitchforks and myriad other household objects-splitting, hewing, shaving, scraping,etc.
The goal of all coopering is to make conical arches of tapered and radially beveled staves, held tightly together by unstretchable hoops driven down on the cone.
The hoop and the taper are usually judged so friction alone will hold the hoop in place, but then they are often nailed or pegged in place anyway. I use walnut pegs. What keeps the hoop tight, ultimately, is maintenance...the hoops can always be driven up tighter, or replaced with slightly smaller ones. The nails or pegs have to be pulled and replaced, of course."

In my first post I've linked to the pitchfork thread that pictures most of the 'green woodworking techniques' mentioned above.

One thing that I notice he doesn't mention in this answer is that the hoops are completed and joined into a circle of the correct diameter and THEN driven on to the cone.

feel free to ask more questions....

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

......two more buckets with different handles. The bucket in the first two was done by another student of my husbands teacher. Both have 'lock and key' type join for the hoop.
My pictures distort the handles...the extended stave and handle are of equal size on each side of the buckets.

this is an EDIT........i had attributed the buckets in reverse.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

...and they hold water

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Christian Wolff

Posts: 13

Location: Colorado/Montana

posted 5 years ago

Those pics are gorgeous.

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

This is a skill I would love to learn

....and it is still being taught

As many homesteaders know, learning a craft can add satisfaction to one's life while adding diversity to one's income stream. I think woodworking, using hand tools especially, fits well into a permaculture plan. I'm hoping to help inspire others to explore traditional craft both by this topic and the 'making wooden pitchforks' thread. Some skills, like coopering, really need a hands on teacher...others maybe just practice and books and web info.
good luck!

EDIT: all of the above photos are taken at the Cooper Shop at the Ozark Folk Center except for the one of the piggin full of water.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

Posts: 6274

Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

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posted 5 years ago

Very nice Work! I've always loved the look, feel and artistry of wood implements. I was fortunate to be born into a family that owned a cooperage. My first bed side lamp was made from a practice barrel I made. I love the craft and now do all the steps with nothing but hand tools, just like I was taught as a child. The Cooperage now has of course mechanized for practical reasons and to keep the profit margin up. I'm trying to get to the point where I can take Wolf, my wife up to Mountain Home for a day trip.

List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.

Cali McAffrey

Posts: 7

Location: Central Texas

posted 5 years ago

Absolutely gorgeous.

Toni Tanskanen

Posts: 1

posted 5 years ago

Is there good books about making wooden buckets? Or instructions or videos in some webpage?

After some googling I found this:
http://www.beaverbuckets.com/catalog/bookdvd/

Does anyone has experience how good that book is?

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

Toni Tanskanen wrote:Is there good books about making wooden buckets? Or instructions or videos in some webpage?

After some googling I found this:
http://www.beaverbuckets.com/catalog/bookdvd/

Does anyone has experience how good that book is?

Hi, Toni....sorry i am so slow getting back to this.......It looks like you found the cooper that my husband was going to recommend

He thinks that Jim Gaster is an excellent cooper. I haven't looked at the site...are there videos also? Although my husband learned as an apprentice...he says he would still like to get a copy of that book one day.

... welcome to permies! ...and thanks for posting.

John Devitt

Posts: 34

Location: Belfair WA

posted 5 years ago

What other material can be used for the hoops?

Here in the PNW I have lots of cedar, but not much Oak. I have Fir, Hemlock, Maple and Alder.

thanks in advance.

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

John Devitt wrote:What other material can be used for the hoops?

Here in the PNW I have lots of cedar, but not much Oak. I have Fir, Hemlock, Maple and Alder.

thanks in advance.

he says

"I don't know the woods out there that well, but I suspect Big Leaf Maple is the rough equivalent. It is the very nature of this traditional green woodworking technology to be very local, to accumulate knowledge of the potential uses of the trees in ones own area.
From here (arkansas ozarks) EASTwards, I have heard of oak, hickory, ash and elm being used for hoops and willow and hazel for lighter use."

I can speak from observation of the frustration after cutting and splitting even a perfectly straight grained white oak and finding that it cracks and will not bend into hoops well. Both my husband and our white oak split basket maker friend are noticing this (maybe) more often lately....what is called "brash"...wood that is brittle, less limber than needed for the work that they do. Let us know what you try and how it works.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

paul wheaton

master steward

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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 5 years ago

all my stuff!

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Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

this book/dvd tells how to make wooden buckets in the tradition of those I have pictured in this thread..........no power tools or glue needed....
I think, Jim G. uses a silicone in the joints of the bucket, which of course, isn't traditional, but is one of the down sides, I think, to trying to mass produce an item for the public. The buckets pictured in this thread have been carefully fitted so that when filled with a liquid the wood swells and holds tight without the help of a glue or silicone (although cattail fluff is sometimes used to seal the bucket bottom).....it can be done

http://www.beaverbuckets.com/

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

...and here is Roy Underhill.............a short bit from one of his PBS shows on bucket coopering.

he also works in the tradition of the coopered buckets pictured in this thread ......people see my husband in his shop with all of his hand tools and his hat and suspenders and say he looks like Roy.....Roy is not aging, though

it is not the whole show, unfortunately, but a good peek at some fine coopered buckets.

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

a very short peek at the cooper shop at Williamsburg.....

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

and another............she is wonderful! this a much longer video and covers much of the processes and tools.

and a link to a podcast interview with Ramona.

http://podcast.history.org/2012/01/02/meet-the-cooper/

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

working with cedar...

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

This is a great video of Alex Stewart who taught my husband's teacher..........check out the bib overalls:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTb2zVpQGg4&feature=player_detailpage

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

Alex Stewart "Portrait of a Pioneer"
Portrait of a Pioneer at Amazon

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 5 years ago

Well, my husband is coopering this month but I haven't made it in to town to take some pictures of him working, so I sent the camera with him yesterday.........here are a few shots of staves in the works.......all photos taken at the Cooper Shop at the Ozark Folk Center.

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"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Leila Rich

steward

Posts: 3999

Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,

posted 5 years ago

Wow, fresh cedar is an amazing colour!

Judith Browning

Posts: 7052

Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!

1070

posted 4 years ago

More on coopering in the 'book' forum The Cooper and his Trade by Kenneth Kilby

"We're all just walking each other home." -Ram Dass
"Be a lamp, or a lifeboat, or a ladder."-Rumi

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

Posts: 6274

Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

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posted 4 years ago

John Devitt wrote:What other material can be used for the hoops?

Here in the PNW I have lots of cedar, but not much Oak. I have Fir, Hemlock, Maple and Alder.

thanks in advance.

I would use the maple trees for hoops in your neck of the woods. work them green and they will be easier to form.

Alder would do nicely for the staves for making buckets and tubs and even dry barrels.

The cedars of the PNW are traditional for making the old style "hot tubs" Staves.

Mike Patterson

Posts: 61

Location: nemo, 5a/b

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posted 4 years ago

Thank you, Judith, for all this great information and wonderful pictures!

I'm trying to track down a curved drawknife and am having somewhat of a hard time finding a good source. Would your husband (or anyone else) have any recommendations for where to buy one or a good manufacturer to look out for? I don't mind paying a higher price for good quality. I'd prefer to find a good used antique one somewhere, but might be a bit more lost as to knowing wether or not it's any good.

I've found that flexcut makes a small drawknife that's apparently flexible, which maybe would work? Didn't see anything on Lee Valley's website. Lie-Nielsen has a somewhat expensive one that says it's curved, but doesn't look to be curved.. https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/drawknives/1-draw-c-drawknives?node=4090

Thanks again for all your quality posts!

-WY

Harry: I can't believe we drove around all day and there's not a single job in this town. There is nothing, nada, zip!
Lloyd: Yeah, unless you wanna work 40 hours a week!

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

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Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

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posted 4 years ago

drawknives

also do a search for traditional wood working tools, there are quite a few companies that still sell the hand tools needed for traditional wood working.

For coopering you will find that there are a few tools that just might need to be made by you. It is nearly impossible to find a croze shave ( croze plane) anymore except for antique ones, which do still work if they aren't cracked.

Other tools that are handy to have on hand are Scorp, Spoke Shaves, Planes, In-shave, Coopers Adze, Hoop driver and hammer (if using metal bands) and Coopers In-shave.

this site: barrel making

has lots of good links as well as photos/ drawings of the tools of this trade.

This site is also good: tools of the cooper trade

Mike Patterson

Posts: 61

Location: nemo, 5a/b

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posted 4 years ago

Thanks, Bryant. Those links were very helpful. I think I'm looking for an inshave.

What about using a router for cutting the croze?

-WY

Harry: I can't believe we drove around all day and there's not a single job in this town. There is nothing, nada, zip!
Lloyd: Yeah, unless you wanna work 40 hours a week!

Bryant RedHawk

gardener

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Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5

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posted 4 years ago

Cutting the Croze with a router would probably be doable but the proper shape is not available in a single router bit to my knowledge.

steve folkers

Posts: 7

posted 4 years ago

Mike Patterson wrote:Thank you, Judith, for all this great information and wonderful pictures!

I'm trying to track down a curved drawknife and am having somewhat of a hard time finding a good source. Would your husband (or anyone else) have any recommendations for where to buy one or a good manufacturer to look out for? I don't mind paying a higher price for good quality. I'd prefer to find a good used antique one somewhere, but might be a bit more lost as to knowing wether or not it's any good.

I've found that flexcut makes a small drawknife that's apparently flexible, which maybe would work? Didn't see anything on Lee Valley's website. Lie-Nielsen has a somewhat expensive one that says it's curved, but doesn't look to be curved.. https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/drawknives/1-draw-c-drawknives?node=4090

Thanks again for all your quality posts!

-WY

You seem to have the major woodworker's tool sites ( if you also have Woodcraft and Traditional Woodworker). I can only add that I suppose that by "curved" you mean a barrel cooper's hollow knife, presumably still available from more specialized cooper's tool suppliers, at astronomical prices. I don't use one (although I have inshaves for bowls, etc.); I use a 4" scorp on buckets and churns and a 1 1/2" one on smaller stuff. I do tubs so rarely it hasn't been a problem. (I do the hollowing of the inside of the staves after setting up, or raising, the vessel, instead of hollowing staves individually beforehand as barrels are done.)

See Alex Stewart in The Foxfire Book 3 for making your own croze. The old French word croze just means cross, because the tool is basically a specialized marking gauge, a stick through a board (looking like a cross from the side),adjustable and held by a wedge. The cutting tooth on a bucket croze is usually a piece of an old file, burnt to un-harden, with saw teeth filed into it. (A barrel croze has two knife blades and a "hawk" raker.) Router or croze, whatever you use, the important thing is to get a clean edge to the groove, without chatter or rip-outs that would leak. Usually this means going around and around, a lot of careful little cuts, instead of one big oops.

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