• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Nicole Alderman
stewards:
  • Mike Haasl
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • John F Dean
  • Rob Lineberger
  • Carla Burke
  • Jay Angler
gardeners:
  • Greg Martin
  • Ash Jackson
  • Jordan Holland

Connecting dome(s) with sunroom type walkways????

 
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello,

We're are building a multi-dome home. The domes are spaced out from each other by 10' so that we can connect them with some type of 4 season sunroom style walkways. Think of a tube with the bottom cut out. Take that top half and place on top of courses of earth bags.
Has anyone seen/heard/done something like this? Trying to find a supplier but everything I find are traditional sunrooms.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Jim
 
pollinator
Posts: 3643
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
114
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Barrel roofs are fairly easy in metal. Like a greenhouse or low tunnel hoop on the bags and covered with tin. Could do it in concrete canvas, too.

The connection to the domes is the hard part, but it always is.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you for the feedback however covering with metal will defeat the purpose. We want them clear for a sunroom/greenhouse type walkway.
 
R Scott
pollinator
Posts: 3643
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
114
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh, I was thinking only the walls were glass like a normal breezeway.

Yes, you can buy translucent greenhouse panels that will bend to follow a curve. Farmtek.com or kalwall.com are the two I remember off hand. I will look at the bookmarks on my other computer tomorrow to see if I have more.

 
gardener
Posts: 3197
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
361
forest garden trees urban
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Our vision is to have these "hallways" 4 season rooms so the dome openings can be archways without doors. We would also like to use them as greenhouses ( albeit small ones) to reuse gray water and grow plants. Worst case we will go with solid roofs but would love to have it all clear. I will look into those companies. Thanks!
 
R Scott
pollinator
Posts: 3643
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
114
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
http://www.solar-components.com/sun.htm Here is the link to the consumer site for the kalwall product.

http://www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft_building_materials-ft_corrugated_sheets_panels;pg102948.html This stuff will follow a curve and the 8' width means fewer seams, maybe seamless depending on how wide you were going to make the arches.

 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks! I contacted both. So far Farmtek replied. Will let you know what I find out.
 
Posts: 101
Location: Nebraska
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That sounds like a cool project. I lived for a bit in a house made of 2 domes connected by a sun room in Northern Colorado. The sun room was framed of wood with floor to ceiling windows on the long side which faced south. The floor was made of flag stone to store the heat. The over hang above the windows shaded them during the hot half of the year. In winter, the room would get pretty warm during the day. By the time the morning came around it was pretty cool (possibly cold) in there. The heating was accomplished with sun and fire. There was no fire in the sun room though. During the colder months we usually shut the dividing doors when we went to bed and opened them in the morning.

Thinking about your set up with my experience in mind, a few things come to mind.
1) Doors at each end might be useful in regulating climate in all three areas (dome 1, dome 2, and sun room).
2) Greenhouses can have extreme temperature gains and loses. How is this factored into the design? Vents, shade during the hot months, heat storage, etc.
3) Greenhouses tend to have high humidity. Will this affect your interior environment in the domes?
4) Connecting the three parts will likely be geometically interesting. This will vary greatly depending on the sun room design, though.

I wish you well on your adventure. I really loved living in a dome.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Amos for your feedback. Good points to keep in mind. First off, the walkways will not be our main source for growing. We will have a dedicated greenhouse for that. We just wanted to do something different, and possibly make use of some grey water. The walkway to kitchen would have the most plants, mainly herbs. Not sure how much humidity they would create.
Venting is still in the planning stages. I am thinking about incorporating air tubes for cooling. At the very least, I would have vents in walkways to exhaust hot air if needed, and vent tubes in the domes to draw in cooler air.
Perhaps we need to rethink about having doors.
I am hoping to create the walkways as efficiently as possible. We do plan on using stone for flooring, and earth bag walls up 2-3 feet. My biggest challenge is I cannot find a source for the glass/plastic so I can create the top half tubes.

Jim
 
Amos Burkey
Posts: 101
Location: Nebraska
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Once in a while I have come across an aluminum structure with windows for the roof and curving down to the ground. Basically, a quarter of a circle terrarium for human fast food consumption. These are usually found on fast food restaurants here. If you can find one of those that is being removed from the building, you may be able to fit that to your project. I have yet to find one when I had time and space to take care of it.

We had sliding patio doors at the connection point between the domes and the sun room. They allowed plenty of light in and didn't use up any extra floor space when they were left open.

Following R Scott's lead, here is some twin wall polycarbonate greenhouse covering you may be interested in using from Farmtek. twin wall polycarbonate page

What is the climate of the area with the domes? Could you post a drawing of the layout? This information may inspire a few more ideas.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hmmm, how big we're those sliding doors? I've read that domes you need to keep the openings to a minimum.
I am currently waiting on a sample from Farmtek. The other company has not responded.
We are in NW Arizona. Zone 7A. Summers get in the 90's and winters can get -10f. However, neither extreme lasts for a long time. We just moved up here so have not experienced a winter yet, but have been told the afternoons usually warm up well.

I tried to upload a pic. Hopefully it took. Keep giggles on my drawing skills to a minimum please
image.jpg
[Thumbnail for image.jpg]
Multi-dome home plan
 
Amos Burkey
Posts: 101
Location: Nebraska
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The domes that I lived in were wood framed. The patio doors were 6' wide. Are you building the domes out of earth bags?

Have you considered a quarter round window with a tall north wall for the two east-west sun rooms? This would allow more mass and maybe narrow the temperature swings a bit. Plus it might allow room for a few more plants or even a water fall. That configuration also might make it a bit easier to connect to the 3/4 bath as well.

The window areas could be covered by shade cloth as the weather gets hot.

The kitchen sun room could receive a substantial amount of shade in the winter. If it was my build, I would consider shallow, curved window (radius about 7-10') area on top of full height walls (8'). This would hopefully even out the extreme temps and allow shade tolerant plants a place to grow. I imagine shade loving plants could use some space in AZ.

In AZ, evaporitive cooling would be a good option as well.

That looks like a really cool build. I used to fantasize about a multi-dome build similar to that.
 
Posts: 97
Location: St. Louis, MO
6
hugelkultur forest garden trees chicken pig homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i find the "mud room" humorous... considering, the, whole, house, is, made, of, dirt.
 
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Jim,
I don't think low tunnel hoophouse is 4 season, too extreme of temps. I'd bag the north and glass the south. I'd also make them more/bigger than simple hallways. I'd connect them intimately with much of the dome work. If you're starting to build all these 18' domes in August, I'd start on just one and let your ideas evolve slowly. Consider a ferro roof between the domes, and possibly make your kitchen/mb courtyard larger.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks again for the feedback.
After reviewing some samples for the sunroom roof, we feel we may have to go back to the drawing board. The plastic is not crystal clear, which defeats the whole idea we had. Perhaps just glossing the south walls is our only choice. We are not wanting a greenhouse feel because we need the greenhouse. We are building a separate structure for growing. Just thought it would be a nice twist for a way to connect the domes.
We are going with domes to help cut costs by eliminating a traditional roofing system. All my research states keeping the dome diameter under 20' which is why we are going with multiple domes.
Chris: are you referring to a ferrocement roof? Otherwise what is a Ferro roof?
I doubt we will get a whole lot done before winter is here, since it will be mostly me doing it. Probably will start on a non-plumbing dome and get it coated on the outside and take it from there. Who knows how much it will change
 
Joe Vaughn
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Jim,
Yes I meant a ferrocement roof to connect all the strange intersections between dome connections. Then you can add them whenever and not have to plan on embedding cheap timber/lumber/metal within bagwork now. Because it sounds like your plans aren't mortared down.
As for cheap and design simplicity advise, build your 16' bedroom dome first, leaving 3-4 solid arched openings. All kinds of expansion door possibilities, or window, or built ins can go in them later. Lofts add space. The more you can share dome walls to become another structures interior wall, the cheaper (time is money) and more thermally efficient. A kitchen, living room, multi purpose room could potentially be combined.
IF you are looking for plastic clear and worthy of being attached to your house, look at polycarbonate. Pricy but the best.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Chris,

Do you have a good example for ferrocement and domes? Also, what do you mean shared walls? 2 full domes interwoven walls, or a full dome and an apses? We really need full domes for the different rooms. We are in our 50's and want to plan it for if we ever need assistance to move around.

Jim
 
Joe Vaughn
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jim,
Sorry, I can't think of an existing documented example where someone bridged EB domes with FC. What I mean about suggesting sharing a dome wall is building additions between your EB domes so that the dome bagwork become internal walls, essentially throwing in sliding glass doors between domes and spanning a fc roof to the domes to reclaim square footage (quick and cheap). This also helps with thermal performance by putting your thermal EB inside the house and leads you away from narrow hot/cold hoophouse hallways to a roomier sunroom between domes (since you like the idea of spacing out your domes). This also fixes the drainage issue of three domes and two hoophouses draining into small courtyards. Bagwork is hardwork, and having living space on both sides of the bagwork is much quicker (thus, cheaper) than single domes spaced apart. Remember, although seldom said, Plenty of solid 7'h x 3'w arched openings in the dome bagwork open possibilities for expansion doors, glass, or large Nicho'd built ins. FC isn't the only way to connect domes, it just allows for easy dome connection and future freedom in design evolution.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This really does sound interesting Chris but I am having a challenge visualizing it. Quick and cheap has my attention.
 
Joe Vaughn
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
All I'm saying is that area between spaced out domes could be a killer room where you don't have to haul/tamp/plaster any more bags all the way up to 18' above ground. Plumbing, electrical, heating/cooling, Greywater and drainage is simpler too. Maybe Clerestory the north dome well, and a western porch. for me, this would be a quicker build than extra dome bagwork.
IMG_20140807_185740.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20140807_185740.jpg]
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow I'm liking that idea. I'll have to research how to do the roof. Thanks
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chris: have you built these like this? Do the straight walls interconnect with the domes or butt up against then buttressed? Thanks
 
Joe Vaughn
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've done earthbag and ferrocement domes separately, and combined both methods but not together in this fashion. But the same principals apply. If you frame your openings in timber, lumber or steel, it's easy to bolt thru bagwork with anchor plates (ala kaki style), then FC/cob the gaps up to a top beam. if you frame your openings in concrete/FC, extend the rebar to pin into the bagwork. Either way run some solid rebar'd FC "posts" up the domes to dispurse the FC roof loads (then it's not just pushing on one Eb row. Rebar pins thru bagwork courses above and below FC level would also be wise to dispurse loads. Don't attempt this if there are any bagwork bulges, or FC reinforce them out if you do.
It's no more complicated than EB domework, and easier to pull off.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hmmm, sounds like I would be using more materials than planned. Would like to keep those extra walls EB's and just create the roof supports for the FC. If I can do it this way, do I interlock those walls with the dome walls or but up against them and use buttressing for support?
 
Joe Vaughn
Posts: 120
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You could do bag it either way, interlocking being obviously stronger, but urges you to build them simultaneously, and not something you can come back to in a couple years after you polish your domes. a 10' span between domes doesn't leave a lot of space after glass and doors. those weird gaps between glass doors and the dome'ing out bagwork is why God invented bottle and stonework
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Funny you say that. We originally wanted an Earthship and have been saving bottles and cans for a while. Plan on a few bottle windows already.
 
Jim Grieco
Posts: 67
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey Chris,

I sent you a message.
 
When I was younger I felt like a man trapped inside a woman's body. Then I was born. My twin is a tiny ad:
Rocket Mass Heater Manual - now free for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/8/rmhman
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic