Nathanael Szobody wrote:Hi Lito,
Thanks for the input! I will definitely value your insights. The trees in question are mainly African Mahogany (Khaya senegalensis), and some local people say they harbor bad spirits. The people who are breaking them are actually not the native population; they are immigrants who have moved up in the past generation. And you are right: I should just walk over and ask their chief if he understands what they are doing. Eventually we will have a fence around the place, but it would be good to understand their thinking a little better.
Nathanael Szobody wrote:It looks like a dessert in the pictures because we're in the seventh month of dry season! Give it three months and those same locations will look like a rain forest ecology. Right now everything is dormant. But that dirt is loaded with seeds, and all the organic material has been eaten by livestock or termites. In the case of termites, the material has been digested and integrated with the soil so that as soon as the rains hit there is an explosion of fertile greenery. Even though it looks like a desert, there are about 13 inches of topsoil there. It's just sandy topsoil.
There are actually loads of trees there too, but people cut them to the ground for planting. Once I let them go they'll spring back up in the rainy season from the dormant root stock.
Lito George wrote:Nathanael: are you aware of Geoff Lawtons permaculture work in the Middle East? Seems to be similarities in the scope of work and environmental conditions. He has reached terrific success there.
Mark Kissinger wrote:
The problem seems to be mostly a social one, not a technological one. In your case, it seems that some of your most difficult vectors are human ones, in terms of how the various groups interact in determining how the land and it's soil is used.
Mark Kissinger wrote:You mentioned digging swales. I assume they are to be used to slow, spread, and sink the 80cm of rains that you get. It looks like the area is mostly very flat. One thing your students can do is calculate how much area is really needed to collect and store underground (in the roots of the trees or the forage-able plants and grasses) the water needed to support one food crop (or fodder crop for a group of nomadic herders) through the dry season.
Lito George wrote:Nathanael: are you aware of Geoff Lawtons permaculture work in the Middle East? Seems to be similarities in the scope of work and environmental conditions. He has reached terrific success there.
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
Mark Kissinger wrote:
The problem seems to be mostly a social one, not a technological one. In your case, it seems that some of your most difficult vectors are human ones, in terms of how the various groups interact in determining how the land and it's soil is used.
Isn't this the case everywhere!
...
My goal is nothing short of boundless permaculture in all of its aspects, social and ecological. These kids have already bought into it!
Mark Kissinger wrote:You mentioned digging swales. I assume they are to be used to slow, spread, and sink the 80cm of rains that you get. It looks like the area is mostly very flat. One thing your students can do is calculate how much area is really needed to collect and store underground (in the roots of the trees or the forage-able plants and grasses) the water needed to support one food crop (or fodder crop for a group of nomadic herders) through the dry season.
Actually, I stated above that the swales are more for mulch collection and irrigation retention. We have plenty of sun here, so I'm happy to let all that water go to the ground water table and we bring it back up, all purified and mineralized by nature with solar power. It's real sandy soil, so absorption is not an issue. For reference you can see the design I posted earlier.
Lito George wrote:Nathanael: are you aware of Geoff Lawtons permaculture work in the Middle East? Seems to be similarities in the scope of work and environmental conditions. He has reached terrific success there.
Yes, I cut my permaculture teeth on his videos. Fundamentally, his greening the desert is a project that grows bunches of stuff on drip irrigation. Sure, he employs solid techniques like mulch, swales and guilds, but it all runs on drip irrigation. I could do that here as well, but then none of the locals could afford to copy my methods. I prefer something more indigenous. And Bill Molleson's adage is particularly relevant for the African context: "Permaculture replaced petroleum with people."
Additionally, my climate is only dry for two thirds of the year. The other third is more of a rain forest climate. It is the integration of these two seasons that presents a unique challenge--the wet/dry tropics.
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:Mark,
I used to live in Arizona, and retain a deep love of the Sonoran desert. So diverse, vibrant and austere all at the same time. Ironically, my brother and I ran a lawn business! That was before permaculture :)
Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
hans muster wrote:How is the water situation?
Do you know the banana circle? Could be used around wells, so that the wasted water is channelled to a pit, with bananas on the mound. Or something similar with the grey water, directed to the center of the banana circle if you have tap water.
-Nathanael
Hans Quistorff wrote:I will share my observations though my cycle is not as extreme in the Seattle Washington area where we have 8 months of rain and 4 months of dry. I have a farm that no longer has livestock on it so I manage what used to be done by rotational paddocks and corral collection of the manure is done with my scythes.
During the rapid growing seasons [spring and fall] I cut and accumulate in my production area. I concentrate on harvesting undesirable vegetation like field daises before thy produce seed. I cover my collected material, which is about 12 to 16 inches spread over the garden, with discarded carpet to protect it from the sun and wind and provide for my miniature livestock. [worms, insects. slugs. snakes to eat the slugs] You don't have the carpet but you do have the swales filled with the material and many helping hands to cover the collected material with dirt from the top of the mound. Pumpkins do exceptionally well during the dry season when their roots have access to this organic sponge. In my case they cover an 8 foot circle of carpet. I use the ones without hulls on the seeds which I have selected for the most orange flesh. I dry and store the seeds and dry the flesh and make it into flour when I am grinding my seeds.
At the end of the dry season some areas have mounds of desirable plants such as vetch, alfalfa and wiled flax which I cut and cover the poor areas of my field until the seed drops than I move it to my planting area and cover it with the carpet for 2 months of winter.
-Nathanael
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:When I look at this picture it strikes my how barren the place looks. I'm going to have to take a picture from this spot every six months.
Near the center is the 'pit garden' with concentric swales being dug around it every 12 meters. Food forest will be IN swales, while berms will be spread for crop in between.
Mark Kissinger wrote:
What is the volume of the pit? In the swales?
In the rainy season, will the pit and swales be able to handle the anticipated rainfall?
If the pit swales are filled with organic materials, what will happen if they tend to float on top of the anticipated rainwater?
Is there any plan to allow for the runoff of excessive rainwater collection?
Have you calculated your infiltration rate?
The circular pattern of the swales seems to be designed to prevent water from the surrounding areas from draining into the swales, and presumably into the pit.
What are your plans for the areas outside of the circular feature that you have constructed? Have you considered making linear swales that would concentrate volumes of water into lower areas, in which the composted mulch from your collected mulch would be distributed to encourage growth of your food forest plants?
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
Those are a lot of questions :) Let's see if I can cover them all.
Here's a picture of the pit when it was being dug. It has two more terraces in it now. The walls of the terraces will be built with brick.
<snip>
And I will repost the property design here for your reference. I don't have a scanner in the bush, so a photo will have to do.
The volume is approx 183,000 liters. The semi-circular swales are not to keep water from the pit. The pit is surrounded by it own berm so that is not a concern.
The land is flat at a pancake. There is an imperceptible slope to the East. Additionally, the ground is sandy. In fact our first borehole collapsed because the ground is sandy all 42 meters down. So infiltration is not a concern either. I have not calculated the infiltration rate, but I have observed it. At my house I have much smaller swales. While they do fill up nearly full in the rainy season they have not topped. If they do at the school, the sill is at the road to the south side.
Since the ground is flat it will soak around into the field to the West and the school yard to the East. This is no problem either because it would soak in during the following 24 hours. There is no low ground for water to drain to. It will sit and percolate. If it sits in the school yard it will help raise the water table for my ficus shade trees. But there is very little risk of that anyway. And conveniently, rainy season is summer vacation.
Some of the mulch will float when the swale fills, but it won't stay full for long--not long enough to create an anaerobic situation anyway, or waterlog the trees.
Why semi-circular swales? Well, we dug the pit garden in the center South of the property to be close to the well for irrigation. We originally dug it because we needed sub-soil to make compressed earth blocks to build with. In fact, all of my swales are being dug a meter deep so that we can excavate and use the 50 cm of sub-soil and then back-fill them half way with organic material--peanut shells, in our case. Once that pit was dug, it's berm immediately became the highest point in the property. So following the energy flow from that we continued with the swales going around it. It also creates a pleasant aesthetic.
As you can see in the design, the circular swales every 12 meters will continue (4, I think) until they encounter our staff housing to the West and the school play yard to the East. It's basically a demonstration field agriculture zone in the center of the property that separates school from residential.
-Nathanael
Mark Kissinger wrote: I would suggest that you experiment with planting plants, such as squash and gourds that have large soil-shading leaves, which will help to retain moisture for longer into the dry periods.
-Nathanael
-Nathanael
Canberra Permaculture - My Blog - Wild Cheesemaking - Aquaponics - Korean Natural Farming
Gurkan Yeniceri wrote:Hi Nathanael,
Below link is my interpretation of Korean Natural Farming practices and recipes. I am sure you can make some of those fertilizers with readily available ingredients around you. I hope it helps on your endeavors.
https://www.havatopraksu.org/blog/2018/06/18/asian-natural-farming/
-Nathanael
connor burke wrote: if you do waru waru you would be able to create raised beds and sunken beds for if you get high rainfall or when you have little water. the sunken beds can also be cultivated with small fish that you can harvest before they dry up again...
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
connor burke wrote: if you do waru waru you would be able to create raised beds and sunken beds for if you get high rainfall or when you have little water. the sunken beds can also be cultivated with small fish that you can harvest before they dry up again...
I certainly do sunken beds, or pit gardens in dry season. They won't be retaining water though because the soil is so sandy.
-Nathanael
connor burke wrote:
try to catch all the water that falls on and above your property and also in the surrounding area the larger an area that gets vegetated the more water will be available for plants later in the season. a benefit of Campinas and waru waru is that they have a large storage capacity expesially if you create a "shade/water lens" focusing the water into deep recharge pits will help to conserve water. rocks can be used as mulch and as dew harvesting structures
-Nathanael
"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
Marco Banks wrote:When I lived in Cameroon, there was a proverb that people often used: "It takes a country stick to turn the country porridge." (Country stick sabi turn country fufu).
Any contextually accepted solution to over-grazing will need to come from the people. As outsiders we immediately want to suggest quick and seemingly viable solutions like fencing. But coming into their context with our "solutions" will only create resentment. "Keep YOUR goats off of MY land" --- what they hear is "I'm selfish, I come from a country with tremendous wealth, and I'm not even willing to share a little bit of free grass that I'm not even using with you and your hungry animals."
Education, community-based solutions, and building long-term trust and social equity take YEARS to develop. But in the end, if the community owns those solutions (and enforces those solutions), they will be lasting solutions. A country stick, if you will.
So it always starts with conversations and long silences. "Hey, I've been thinking -- do you think there might be a way for the community to take ownership of a specific tract of land and do an experiment next dry season? We could all benefit from it." It may take 5 years before that series of conversations reaches enough people that they'll attempt something new.
Marco Banks wrote:One potential technique you might try would be an outhouse on a skid so that it can easily be pulled from spot to spot. Dig a shallow hole about 3 feet deep or so, and move your outhouse over the newly dug hole about once a week. Poop for a week. Move on. In 52 weeks, you would have 52 poop-filled holes, each one perfect for planting a new tree. 10 years from now, thats 500 trees growing in that nitrogen rich soil.
Marco Banks wrote:
How do you keep those baby trees from being grazed down to the ground before they get a viable start on life? Maybe you could create a round fence around each one with the mud-blocks that you show in those pictures. If there's one thing that is plentiful, it's dirt. Sun-dried mud blocks are a simple technology, but can be stacked to create a semi-permeable wall with openings that goats can't reach their little heads through. Not only would the block wall keep the growing trees from being grazed to death, but would also provide a micro-climate that's slightly cooler during the day (due to shade) and warm into the evening (due to the heat-sink effect of the blocks).
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
I actually do that already at my house. It's a small concrete slab that I move over a new hole every year. Wow do the trees grow in those holes!! My school committee insisted that we must have a permanent latrine to meet national standards. So we've built that. But I think I will add the moveable kind closer to the classrooms so the kids will prefer that one :-)
We actually do this too--even though the thermal effect is a draw-back; we need cooler nights, not warmer ones! See the picture:
"The rule of no realm is mine. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, these are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail in my task if anything that passes through this night can still grow fairer or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I too am a steward. Did you not know?" Gandolf
connor burke wrote:
silvopasture and agroforestry in your climate would basically be using trees as a perennial shade that will allow your annuals to grow under it whilst conserving the water that would have evaporated directly from the ground.
perennial plants start putting on leaves earlier than other plants and have much more biomass stored to be used as shade.
the most important thing is keeping the soil moist enough that plants can grow. try to avoid irrigating as long as you can. plants evolved to live off ground water and rainfall. irrigation can even lower the yield of a crop. if plants are never watered then they will be able to handle serious droughts as long as the soil is slightly moist from a prior rain event or minimal ground water. how far down do you have to go for ground water?
-Nathanael
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
As for growing annuals in the shade, well, they might grow, but they won't produce. This year I'm going to experiment with letting the wild trees grow, but cut off most of the branches for the rainy season.
Mark Kissinger wrote:
Now, if you could "conveniently" move your mobile outhouses along a line that you would like to be used as a fence, perhaps those wild trees could be grown densely enough so that when you coppiced them back during the rainy season, they could be used to build hugelkulture installations in the areas that would be "reserved" for your nomadic herders during the dry spells. A win-win for everyone? it would be a way to improve relationships with the nomadic herders, and would make the ground "lumpier" in order to concentrate the rainy season water in underground organic storage that would eventually provide better year around pasture for the common areas. More native wild trees will also act as windrows and even serve to make more shade for the livestock.
Perhaps some research into the local folklore would give you some ideas on how to approach the integration of the new ideas into the local culture. I would try to cultivate the local shamans and chiefs as your very best friends! Ask them what the oldest stories said about protecting the village from droughts.
Do I remember correctly that you mentioned that some of the trees were considered evil? If so, see if you can get to the bottom of why that would be so.
I would be interested in hearing more about the social makeup of the area you are living in. I tried looking up the area on Google Maps, but since I don't know the area, I could not pick out your site. If you have the chance the next time you have internet access, perhaps you could make a screenshot of the satellite view of the area and post it here. The area looks to be fairly densely populated from what I could see. Or, if you can get me the GPS coordinates of your school, I could find it on Google maps and send you a screenshot via this forum.If possible get th GPS coordinates for the 4 corners, and perhaps one of the center of your circular mulch pit. Depending on the cell phone service, your phone might be able to access an app to provide that data. I have uploaded a Google Maps satellite view of Boudamasa, Chad. I might be able to get a closer view of your school, if you could mark it on a printout of the photo.
-Nathanael
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
About the hugel. I'm still not convinced on hugelkulture for this climate. I totally do wood core garden beds, but burying large tree branches and trunks is another question. Firewood here is highly prized for starters, so it would be a mild scandal to go burying the suff. Secondly, the native trees here don't have many surface feeder roots; they"re all strongly tap-rooted to go down to the moist soil and survive the dry season. Thirdly, I'm still figuring out the role of termites, but they clearly consume a large amount of carbon--much of which is released through respiration for sure, but a large amount is also bound with soil particles and used as a glue to build and line their tunnels. Termites are the motors of this ecology. So I'm thinking chop and drop is just the best way all around. The problem I have not figured out is how to avoid attracting snakes at the same time...
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
Google maps has not updated its images for this area in over six years. There isn't a trace of my house that has been here for four years.
Nathanael Szobody wrote:
As for social makeup, its a village of about 5000 people. There are probably eight different tribes with a significant representation here, each with their own language. Chadian Arabic is the common language, but anyone who has been to school speaks a little French. I work with the native tribe who are still in the majority. They speak Barma. Mayby three quarters of the people are Muslim. There are a minority of Christians from a coupld imigrant tribes; and a few traditional animists. Everyone is highly superstitious.
Everyone works fields for a living. They usually plow with an ox or horse plow. Some people still plant just with a hoe, and I'm really trying to encourage that. They grow what they can keep weeded with their hoe all summer. They also raise a smattering of animals.
My goal is to demonstrate better practices that will increase yield without the plow. It doesn't really matter if I convince anyone; the kids will learn it.
stories about strange happenings associated with the trees. Like strange light coming from it
Hans Albert Quistorff, LMT projects on permies Hans Massage Qberry Farm magnet therapy gmail hquistorff
www.growculture.net
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