Thelma McGowan wrote:Honora says it very well.
Hemenway is a realist. even lawton has talked about how being self sustaining is not the ultimate goal. we need to have community and networks of people that can be part of the whole system. a traditional small village is sustainable only because there are groups of people with different skills that can be traded and combined to create all that everyone needs from food to clothing and shelter. An amish community is another example. the whole community works together. One farmer can not provide his family with everything they need.....he does not have all the skills or resources to provide everything.
so hemenway wants to see people work together, not be isolated xenophobes.
Toby Hemenway wrote:I think it's valuable to have much of that skill set--be able to grow food, make tools, build, weave, and so on. But in a world in which we are surrounded with people who are also skillful, and who may enjoy doing things that we don't, or who are better at it, or who want some of what we can produce better than they, or with whom it just would be beneficial to be connected, why wouldn't we want to engage in all sorts of exchanges with them? And even invite them to provide some of our basic needs.
Victor Johanson wrote:
Honora Holmes wrote:I'll never be able to grow my own iodine source though.
Six apple seeds supposedly contain a daily dose of iodine. Or is that an internet myth?
Kay Bee wrote:
my fryer meat rabbits tended to be ~5lbs at slaughter, but by the time the skinning and gutting was complete, they would be down to ~ 3 pounds dressed out. A pound or so of this was bone and other connective tissue. Point being that the 3000 cal may be a bit high unless you are finding a way to use the whole animal.
Cj Verde wrote:
Try Google Docs.
Kay Bee wrote:The link to the spreadsheet opens for me, very nice.
I was raising Californian meat rabbits. Once I feel i have my food supply set up, I'm thinking to cross New Zealand's with the Californians
Brad Davies wrote:
Other side, you have a high caloric but not complete nutrition meal 2,000 cal/day
Short term: probably be OK
Long term: Probably will run into problems.
Tyler Ludens wrote:I need to mention this again, depends on where you are what the carrying capacity is.
I've been trying to grow food here for a decade, and am just now possibly maybe beginning to know how. But most of that decade has been failure. If "one" is in a difficult location or has a brown thumb, "one" may encounter a great deal of discouragement in trying to be food self reliant.
Personally, I would probably starve to death.
I don't think permaculture is being very helpful if all it can tell people is "location is everything." That is, permaculture as a design system is failing if it can't help people in less than ideal locations. So for every person living in a lush location who can complacently say "it's easy to grow my own food" I would hope there would be someone in a less than ideal or even a poor location who can say "I can grow my own food even though it might not be as easy as it is in a lush location." And those are the examples I'd like to see, not the easy examples, but the challenging ones. Of course it would be helpful if even the easy examples would tell us what they're growing, how they grow it, how much they produce, etc etc.
Toby Hemenway wrote:… But in a world in which we are surrounded with people who are also skillful, and who may enjoy doing things that we don't, or who are better at it, or who want some of what we can produce better than they, or with whom it just would be beneficial to be connected, why wouldn't we want to engage in all sorts of exchanges with them? And even invite them to provide some of our basic needs.
The hardest part of permaculture--and of life--I think, is the "doing it with other people" part. We only get good at that with practice, and we know a lot about what happens when we're not good at it. So I wanted to point out that self-sufficiency and self-reliance may not be useful goals. That even goes for community self-reliance. We might want our community to be able to be self-contained, but to actually isolate our community from others doesn't seem like a good idea.