Tooth decay reversal diet

I don't know about that, Pam, but I have read that arthritis, at least some kinds of it, are caused by long-term inflammation, which is often caused by too much carbohydrate in the diet.  I know my own personal experience has been that I can tell within hours if I've over-eaten on carbs, as I start to have not only sore, inflamed joints, but also aching muscles.  Cut the carbs and it takes about two days for the inflammation to settle back down.

Kathleen

For myself, I have found that Vitamin D3 supplements have helped rebuild the enamel on my (formerly quite sensitive teeth). Drinking and eating significant amounts of dairy products did nothing helpful, nor did calcium/magnesium supplements (even those that had added vitamin D2.)

I am of the opinion that Vitamin D3 is very important for dental enamel but that Vitamin D2 is almost worthless, (though there may be scientific evidence suggesting otherwise).

I took 1000 mg of D3 daily for months without seeing improvement, however upon doubling to 2000 mg daily things started to turn around for me. (In the winter I am taking 3000 mg daily but in the summer cut back to 2000.)

Vitamin D3 is the only supplement I take daily now, I have given up on all of the others.

Many healthy food items can be murder on your teeth. Tomatoes, lemons, vinegar, lactic acid pickles - anything acidic can do as much or more damage than dental caries bacteria. I love acidic foods but had to learn to eat them in moderation or at least be careful to rinse well with water quickly after eating.

That's good news about the vitamin D3 supplements.  My daughter and I are taking 6,000 IU daily right now, and will cut back to 4,000 IU daily in the summer (at least I will -- she can't be out in the sun, so I may keep her at the higher level).  It has really made a major difference for both of us in how we feel and function.

Kathleen

velacreations wrote:
Let's hope so, although that is not setting the bar very high (better than the SAD)....
Would you mind posting a source for this?  I have not seen any evidence that suggest that meat is associated with osteoporosis.  I have seen considerable evidence that meat consumption is associated with good bone density.

Vitamin D seems to be an important part of this study, as that was one variable that was changed and showed significant results.

I have read about pasteurized, homogenized, industrially-produced milk causing osteoporosis, but I do not recall the source.  If I come across it in any of my books later, I will try to remember to come back here with a reference.  In any case, raw milk from grass-fed cows is not a problem.

The human is adapted to a very wide range of diets. I don't think any diet is superior, however, the Western diet is by far and away a bad diet. Chemicals, empty carbohydrates, sugars, high-fat meats, GMOs, etc etc.

Foods high in Vitamin K.
http://www.amazon.ca/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727

We know about calcium for bones and teeth. Good! We learned about Vitamin D. Good. Now we need to know about the balance between fat soluble Vitamins D and K!

The Japanese are NOT milk drinkers yet they have few fractures and good bone health into advanced old age. Why? It may be that they eat green sources of Calcium (and don't rely on milk as a source or supplements) and they eat fermented soy products. Research "soy isoflavones" and/or the term 'osteoblasts"

http://www.sonamex.com/biblioteca/wong.pdf

College-level nutrition course teaches the mechanics of high-meat diet=higher osteoporosis risk.
Meat is a whole, complete protein. Unlike incomplete, partial proteins of vegetables, grains and other plant foods, complete proteins are hard for your body to digest. (Though for some people, their bodies work sorta opposite.) Your body has to break down the complete protein of meat in order to do this. And <if I remember correctly> this breakdown process produces an acid byproduct that draws calcium (to neutralize it?) out of the bloodstream, or if not enough there, out of the bones. Dairy does this too. Its actually easier on your body to get your protein by eating plant foods with complementary proteins (legumes + grains) to make a complete protein which your body can utilize readily, rather than eating a non-fractured complete protein that your body has to put a lot of effort into breaking down in order to use.
Most plants have protein and fats and other nutrients that you would not expect them to, because there is little in-depth research that is well-known. For instance, did you know that lettuce has protein?

Oil Pulling - not really a diet but more of a process. Has anyone else here tried it? I used to do it but stopped and someone recently reminded me of it so I started up again.

I doubt there is any scientific proof that this has any benefits but I do know that when I do it regularly my mouth feels a lot cleaner, less stuff sticks to my teeth and I don't wake up with kitty litter box mouth in the morning.

I have used different oils; olive, grapeseed, currently using coconut oil.

Does it work - I don't know, I have old teeth that suffered a lot of damage years ago. So far no new damage and the dentist seems to be impressed with gum health and so forth. I don't seem to get colds much anymore and I used to have terrible sinus problems but not anymore - of course all that could also be attributed to my diet and lifestyle.

Varina Lakewood wrote:College-level nutrition course teaches the mechanics of high-meat diet=higher osteoporosis risk.
Meat is a whole, complete protein. Unlike incomplete, partial proteins of vegetables, grains and other plant foods, complete proteins are hard for your body to digest. (Though for some people, their bodies work sorta opposite.) Your body has to break down the complete protein of meat in order to do this. And <if I remember correctly> this breakdown process produces an acid byproduct that draws calcium (to neutralize it?) out of the bloodstream, or if not enough there, out of the bones. Dairy does this too. Its actually easier on your body to get your protein by eating plant foods with complementary proteins (legumes + grains) to make a complete protein which your body can utilize readily, rather than eating a non-fractured complete protein that your body has to put a lot of effort into breaking down in order to use.
Most plants have protein and fats and other nutrients that you would not expect them to, because there is little in-depth research that is well-known. For instance, did you know that lettuce has protein?

How does that explain the lack of osteoporosis in high-meat (primitive and paleo) cultures?

Maybe the quality of the meat has something to do with it? I know most of us would agree that pastured raised meats have a different nutrient profile than grain-fed meats. The diet of the animals and/or plant is rarely taken into account on popular studies.

Peony Jay wrote:
The Japanese are NOT milk drinkers yet they have few fractures and good bone health into advanced old age. Why? It may be that they eat green sources of Calcium (and don't rely on milk as a source or supplements) and they eat fermented soy products. Research "soy isoflavones" and/or the term 'osteoblasts"

The Japanese also eat a lot of fish products, including organs and head meats. They also eat a lot of organ meat from land animals. All of these items are loaded with fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K).

Calcium alone will not do it. You need proper balance of nutrients, including phosphorous, magnesium (there are direct relationships between calcium and these minerals, and the ability of your body to utilize calcium), and all of your major vitamins.

I just finished reading this book: Cure Tooth Decay: Heal and Prevent Cavities with Nutrition. I highly recommend it as a guide for adjusting diet towards better dental health. It is a convincing read, and is very interesting looking at different diet requirements to remineralize teeth. If you search the web for info about it, you find lots of folks testing out his diets (increasing organ meats, seafood, pastured meat and dairy) and having positive results.

There is great evidence out there that shows that adopting a change of diet, one can reverse tooth decay. I have been blessed to not have to deal with this issue but have a close friend that is presently taking several supplements to assist in tooth decay reversal. Accoring to wellnessmama.com : taking high vitamin butter oil and fermented cod liver oil offer the beneficial omega 3 fats that assist in tooth decay reversal.

http://wellnessmama.com/3650/how-to-remineralize-teeth-naturally/

I also use the remineralizing homemade toothpaste that is super! It contains no crazy chemicals, is very easy to make, and cost effective!

The book Cure Tooth Decay is an excellent book on this subject and a must read for parents who wish to avoid having children with cavity ridden teeth.

I have actually healed cavities several times in myself and/or my children. Here is a write up of the first time I did this:

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/how-i-healed-my-childs-cavity/

Amanda Suzanne wrote:There is great evidence out there that shows that adopting a change of diet, one can reverse tooth decay. I have been blessed to not have to deal with this issue but have a close friend that is presently taking several supplements to assist in tooth decay reversal. Accoring to wellnessmama.com : taking high vitamin butter oil and fermented cod liver oil offer the beneficial omega 3 fats that assist in tooth decay reversal.

http://wellnessmama.com/3650/how-to-remineralize-teeth-naturally/

I also use the remineralizing homemade toothpaste that is super! It contains no crazy chemicals, is very easy to make, and cost effective!

I agree - her toothpaste is amazing! My teeth have never felt so fabulously clean.

And I'm almost finished reading Cure Tooth Decay. I had 5 (seriously, FIVE cavities, UGH!) filled last year, and when I felt two more creeping up on me recently, I absolutely freaked out. I found Cure Tooth Decay and it completely inspired me to give WAPF a chance. Prior to that, I'd been eating a primal diet, but still not doing fantastic - rice and sugar are hard habits for me to kick!

I find this all very fascinating, but so seemingly obvious as well. Eat real whole food and guess what? Your whole body will be healthy!

We switched the the GAPS diet a year ago after 15 years as vegetarians and I'm hoping we'll never have to worry about tooth decay again. We eat loads of pastured butter and have fermented cod liver oil every day. I'm keen to read Cure Tooth Decay now- I'm pretty sure our diet is very similar.

The GAPS diet is extremely similar. You're getting lots of nutrient rich broth and few (or, in your case, no) grains. If you added fermented cod liver oil, butter from grass-fed animals, and marrow then you have Rami Nagel's diet.

Recently my WAP enthusiast friends and I spent a whole evening discussing tooth decay.   Some very interesting things came out.  The current theory that tooth decay is caused by food residues and bacteria in our mouths that metabolize them was adopted in the 30's by vote.  One of the other theories - the one that appeals to my sense of logic and understanding of physiology- the one that is supported by WAP's research about tooth decay and the industrial diet was NOT selected as the official theory.

From what Iunderstand, this theory is based on the idea that calcium,phosphorous and magnesium in the wrong proportions, and not enough vitamin D, (and probably a few other factors) create a situation where in bones and teeth are demineralized in order to keep the blood within the pH that supports life.  One of the things that upsets the balance and draws minerals out of the bones and teeth is phytic acid and phytates, which are present in most grains, legumes, seeds and nuts.  Perhaps someone will post the list or chart with that data.  Some grains have an enzyme which can convert the phytates and phytates to another form, and possibly then phosphorous becomes available through that process.  

Rye is one grain that has the phytase enzyme, and when sprouted that enzyme is somehow activated, and given time it can convert the phytates not only in the rye but in other grains in the mix.  

We have been following the idea that legumes and  whole grain flours are "good for us", and we have been led to believe that sprouting nuts will decrease the phytate levels, but the research shows that it is not always the case.

I got pretty confused with all the information, and started in on the "what can I eat then?" cycle.  But I did discover the process of making vollkornbrot  ( https://permies.com/t/66366/vollkornbrot).  Sprout the rye, wet grind the rye, ferment the dough,then bake.  All this to decrease my intake of phytates when I hardly have anything but gold, silver and ceramics in my mouth, and an implant too.  How can I forget the implant, it cost as much as a decent used car!  It is way to late for me to wrooy about reversing tooth decay, but I can attest to the fact that though I brushed my teeth as I was supposed to, the cavities kept coming, and the dentist of my childhood was less than inspired.  The new cavities kept coming under the fillings.  

But I strongly recommend that people concerned about tooth decay who would prefer not to spend large amounts of money on dental services look in to the remineralization of teeth.  And the vollkornbrot is delicious.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:From what I understand, this theory is based on the idea that calcium,phosphorous and magnesium in the wrong proportions, and not enough vitamin D, (and probably a few other factors) create a situation where in bones and teeth are demineralized in order to keep the blood within the pH that supports life.  One of the things that upsets the balance and draws minerals out of the bones and teeth is phytic acid and phytates, which are present in most grains, legumes, seeds and nuts.  Perhaps someone will post the list or chart with that data.  Some grains have an enzyme which can convert the phytates and phytates to another form, and possibly then phosphorous becomes available through that process.  

and zinc
https://www.calciumtherapy.com/order-calcium-materials/

I had low vitamine D though doing it right about the sun. Then I was told that my body was down regulating it on purpuse, in order to not increase my calcium, because I was having my ratios bad... Calcium on its own means nothing, as you need to get it with the right ratio to K or P

So I did a hair analysis with a lab called TEI.
My calcium was just right, my magnesium was very good, but my potassium and phosphorus were too low!
Thus a bad ratio with calcium, then it matched this strange low vitamine D i had under a tropical sun.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/148288765299635/
https://www.mineralcheck.com/

Thekla the question is with your new bread: did you get more cavities? Or did it arrest the cavities?

Hi Angelika,

about cavities:  I don't have any,so I can't say more or less.  I am old enough that I have amouth full of silver amalgam, "porcelain" (read some kind of plastic substance that they call porcelain these days)  and gold.  Hardly any surfaces left to decay.  But I did give up modern dentistry, check ups, cleanings, tooth paste (I use baking soda) and even "regular"brushing some years ago, and have suffered no ill effects.  I do brush and floss when it feels like my teeth are coated.

Floss with bkg soda as grit gets them smooth again.  I also use dental irrigator in the shower, and that seem to be the best.  I have an "implant".  They put a pieceof steel into my jaw bone,then a crown on that.  The space between the gum and the steel will never close up they the gum does fuse/ adhere to the tooth root and the bone.  I always had a kind of weird taste in my mouth which increased when ever I had a cold or congestion.  I took this to indicate I had a bit of infection or drainage coming into my mouth from deep within the tissues of my jaw bone.  When I began the oral irrigator  then that thing went away.

The one I have is called "oral breeze".  here is a link  https://oralbreeze.com, though a search to find that link had a couple of sites selling at so called reduced rates, if anyone is interested in pursuing possible cheaper prices.

I can only speak for the oral breeze people.  I bought direct from them, and they have been more than helpful over the years.

My husband is diabetic.  So we both started a ketogenic diet to try to control it. Within a week, he was off insulin and has stabilized.  As a side effect, I noticed that eating no starches and only minimal natural sugars that my teeth no longer felt "fuzzy". Another friend doing keto for a different reason confirmed this. I would speculate that the lack of "food for sugar bugs(bacteria causing gum disease)"  is the reason for this, further supporting the reversal of decay and dis-ease in the mouth.

Ketogenic and paleo are the natural omnivore diet. We are experimenting with local substitutes.  Specifically, cat tail 'root' and nuts.

Heritage Farm wrote:The human is adapted to a very wide range of diets. I don't think any diet is superior, however, the Western diet is by far and away a bad diet. Chemicals, empty carbohydrates, sugars, high-fat meats, GMOs, etc etc.

I believe part of the diet confusion is the assumption that all humans have the same dietary requirements.  I speculate that the very wide variations n diet are based on evolutionary adaptation base on environment. An extreme example being the Inuit (almost exclusive carnivore and healthy)and the Asian/Indian (almost exclusively vegan and healthy) adaptations which evolved with the peoples. As an Indigenous person I have tried vegetarian adaptation and could not maintain health. Switching to keto/paleo and 'Shazam!' Excess weight literally falls off, sugar metabolism normalized, overall health improves. Energy and cognitive functions return to normal.  
I think we need to acknowledge that although politically incorrect to say, our ethnicity needs to be the starting point of our diet choices.

Laura Jean Wilde wrote:

Heritage Farm wrote:The human is adapted to a very wide range of diets. I don't think any diet is superior, however, the Western diet is by far and away a bad diet. Chemicals, empty carbohydrates, sugars, high-fat meats, GMOs, etc etc.

I believe part of the diet confusion is the assumption that all humans have the same dietary requirements.  I speculate that the very wide variations n diet are based on evolutionary adaptation base on environment. An extreme example being the Inuit (almost exclusive carnivore and healthy)and the Asian/Indian (almost exclusively vegan and healthy) adaptations which evolved with the peoples. As an Indigenous person I have tried vegetarian adaptation and could not maintain health. Switching to keto/paleo and 'Shazam!' Excess weight literally falls off, sugar metabolism normalized, overall health improves. Energy and cognitive functions return to normal.  
I think we need to acknowledge that although politically incorrect to say, our ethnicity needs to be the starting point of our diet choices.

I personally believe that all humans do have the same dietary requirements, ruling out the obvious like allergies.  I haven't heard of a case where the Paleo diet failed to improve anyone's health.  I can't say that for any other diet.  

I think there are many factors... I really believe that some people have different needs than others, some people do well with a lot of carbs, and some people manage with a lot of proteins, and some people don't.
Paleo has a lot of advantages, but too much nuts and seeds can be a problem for many.
And allergies are seen are something like "an exception", when actually there are so many of us who suffer from the same allergies. All these people who have gluten allergies or nut allergies, it's not just "bad luck", but different metabolisms and needs.
But in general, in the west nowadays, food is very much based on gluten/grains and dairy, and theses 2 are often bad for teeth. Paleo is what many living in west need now... I think we maybe have different needs depending on what kind of diet we've had in the past. If you've been a raw vegan for some time, chances are you need some meat/animal products for you teeth. If you were a huge meat eater, more greens would be beneficial.
Fruits are sometimes seen as bad, but if we have a balanced diet, they are a very wholesome food giving a lot of energy. We need variety of different food to find the right balance, and listen to our needs.

I am wondering if I missed some reference to phytic acid somewhere in this thread.  

I think phytic acid interferes with phosphorous metabolism/pathways in the body.
My understanding is:
Phytic acid is in a lot of seeds and nuts, and has phosphorous in a form that is not bioavailable, and maybe also requires the body to pull  phosphorous from the bones and teeth.  Hence a drastic reduction in phytic acid helps tooth decay heal, and protects bones from mineral loss.  Phytic acid can be decreased by sprouting.

I really hope someone can fill me in on this

Many thanks

Agree with you ^^, even though I can't help with any details
And, do not wish to turn this into a vegan-meat eater debate, but animal product do really help for teeth... BUT, on the other hand., too much meat and animal protein have a very bad effect on kidneys, and weak kidneys = a weak overall system. In chinese medicine, strong kidneys = strong health. While we in the west put more focus on the heart, in the east the kidneys are seen as essential.
So, there is, in my view, not one perfect diet, it's about finding a balance, can be real hard though.

Abe Connally wrote:  Basically, the study shows that low grain intake, omnivorous diet with added vitamin D is very healthy for teeth, and can even reverse tooth decay (not advanced).

I've seen similar studies showing that a similar diet is very beneficial to health overall. So, that should give us some clues as to what we should be growing and now growing.

Anonymous wrote: Starches and sugars tend to increase tooth decay, and starches are often worse. Grains and meats and dairy are also associated with osteoporosis, while fruits and veggies are associated with better bone density. Vitamin K from leafy green vegetables is essential to maintaining bone matrix. Potassium and magnesium (from a variety of fruits and veggies) seem to be more important than calcium for bones and teeth.

I do agree that starches and sugars are not good for the teeth and may lead to tooth decay.  I also am of the belief that eating green vegetables is very important, especially for the vitamin K

I find this information very helpful from this thread:  https://permies.com/t/45249/personal-care/purity/Natural-ways-regrow-teeth-save.  

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:My update ...  And I'm so glad for all I've learned about healing small cavities, and just how mutable teeth really are.

I clearly have some stuff to rebalance about my gut biome, tummy aches and such, and this can affect mouth biome too.  Not sure what to do--I do eat plenty of yogurt, home-made kefir, and pretty frequent sauerkraut.  Maybe I should do daily inulin (chicory root seems viable, I like adding a little to yogurt, and since it's dried it is easier to store than sunchoke roots).  Inulin is a 'prebiotic" that supplies bacteria that feed on it, whereas the human enzymes themselves don't digest it.  I have no specific knowledge that this is connected to teeth in particular, it's just another line of thought that seems likely to have some connection.

It's possible that I could rebuild the tooth with the comfrey/calcium thing if I did it longer, I'm not ruling that out.  There may be other factors that I didn't address.  I may need still more silica than the horsetail regimens I did gave me.  

And this thread:  https://permies.com/wiki/47734/personal-care/purity/Alternatives-Dentists-Marjory-Wildcraft

John Elliott wrote:A couple of months ago, I noticed a swelling on my gums and thought I better go see the dentist.  He said he was an abscess and was 99% sure it was going to need a root canal and referred me to an oral surgeon.  I didn't want a root canal.  I still don't want a root canal.  He gave me a prescription to take for the abscess, which it cleared up, but I have gone beyond that, and--knock on wood--I am staving off any root canal procedure.  Here is what I am doing:

1) I've given up sipping on sugary drinks all afternoon like I used to.  I can still have them with meals, but I clean my mouth after meals and don't provide any nourishment for bacteria to grow on.

2) I've switched over from commercial toothpaste with its plastic microspheres to plain baking soda and hydrogen peroxide.  Cheaper too.

3) I've taken up chaw.  No, not tobacco, that's nasty.  I chew oregano.  Oregano contains two powerful antibiotics, carvacrol and thymol.  If I finish my lunch with a mouthful of oregano and chew on that for 10-15 minutes, it leaves me with an antibacterial oregano residue on my teeth.  The upside is that it tastes pretty good and leaves my mouth fresh; the downside is that I have become another drooling Bubba using the great outdoors as a spittoon.

I am so thankful that I found all this wonderful information and that I can pass it along to others.

I thought that vit K from greens was not the right one for us and for our teeth....

Phytic acid can actually help with getting phosphorus, I have read in some nutritional balance text! Especially in a diet rich in dairies, thus a lot of calcium. Oats + milk?

It seems that fructose is the culprit for at least some people, seen in people who tried to use this instead of regular sugar... A big jump in tooth decay while using it. I dont know if fruits do the same.
__________________________________________

About humans having the same nutritional needs: yes and no, if it is true that it depends on our microbiome!

I think we are real omnivores and that we can adapt, unless we have some problems with our guts, like from antibiotics, or a problem with our autonomic nervous system / vagus nerve. In that case we will not produce the same stomach acid, not enough, and this gives difficulties to digest proteins.

If we have H. Pylori, then this bug will change a few things to help HIM survive, and we will not be able to digest our food in the same way until we use some plants like ginger etc.

Soooo... we have the same needs, and we have to find what is different in us, so that we can act on it and become able to digest and assimilate a broad range of food. I think it can also be possible that it is not worth trying it, or impossible according to the issue, and then we are better off some food and adapt our diet to our specific needs. The challenge is to know what is our specific issue, and then see if it is possible to correct it or not. Do not underestimate the power of somatic methods to regulate the parsympathetic state, as this state is an absolute necessity for our digestive and inmune systems to work properly. And we have to direct mental way to act upon our ANS, we cannot force this state, we can just do the necessary for our body to access this state better. Some people have even become able to re-eat gluten!

For the benefit of others, about Vitamin K:

Anne Miller said

 I also am of the belief that eating green vegetables is very important, especially for the vitamin K

This article will explain about Vitamin K:  https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/01/02/what-are-the-benefits-of-vitamin-k2.aspx

Vitamin K comes in several forms, and you get the most benefit when you eat healthy portions of each type of food that provides the different forms. The best source of vitamin K1 comes from plant-based foods, especially leafy greens.

One of the simplest ways to explain the importance of vitamin K2 is to say it has two basic and crucial functions, again, having to do with cardiovascular health and bone restoration.

If you don't typically eat these foods, getting enough K2 may be difficult. Grass-fed organic animal products (i.e., eggs, raw butter and raw dairy) are good sources, as are certain fermented foods such as natto or vegetables fermented at home using a starter culture of vitamin K2-producing bacteria.

https://youtube.com/shorts/RxnPU1DlPrU?si=KaV1itdrYTBIOYbg  is a great look at the topic by Dr. Ellie. I've learned some things from listening to her about having  a healthier mouth.