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"Super Size Me" vs. "Fat Head" - let's talk about junk food

 
master pollinator
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That's the case with pretty much all food one purchases - the land was cleared and then planted to monocrop, whether "free trade organic" or conventional. 

Do you have s source for non-monocrop oils, or do you produce your own?

 
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I've always felt that people worry too much about calories. Sure, you don't want to be fat, but a large number of calories has no negative health effects in and of itself. If I spent all day engaged in strenuous exercise, I might consume more than 5,000 calories a day with no problems. All you need to do is balance food consumption and exercise and your problems will be easily solved. The danger is from the other aspects of junk food, such as too much sugar (screwing with blood sugar and hormones), hormones from animals (screwing with hormones), pesticide residues (screwing with all sorts of stuff), and a host of toxic chemicals (screwing with the liver and lots of other stuff). That, I feel, is the biggest cause for concern. I am in my biggest growing stage right now, and I work out a fair amount, so I probably eat somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000 calories per day. But this isn't a problem, because I eat virtually no junk food.

The monocrop thing is unfortunate, but seems unavoidable at this time, even by buying food from farmer's markets. Hopefully this will change in the future, but for now we must just make do.
 
Tyler Ludens
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We might be able to make some "less bad" choices (depending on our own definition of "bad") - is organic free trade "less bad" than chemical slave labor trade?  To me it is.

I still haven't figured out what kind of oil I can grow for myself with relative ease besides chicken fat. 
 
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John Polk wrote:
From my experience "fair trade organic" is not sustainable nor eco-friendly.  It is usually a small local production of a monocrop once the forest has been cleared.  I tend to shy away from that label, as I realize that it is a thinly veiled marketing ploy for maximum profit per acre.  I do not begrudge a farmer the right to a decent profit, but using environmentally unfriendly methods degrades the product (and label).
Just my humble opinion.



It might be a good idea to visit tropical traditions and learn about this family and how they operate.  I understand what you are saying and in fact it is the reason why I give my business to Tropical Traditions and not to Spectrum Oils.  Their coop of farmers have been harvesting coconuts in the Philippines and Palm kernels in Africa from the forest for multiple generations.  They do it all in the traditional manner that has been used for more than a hundred years. 
 
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NAFTA is the real issue here... Signing into the agreement was also signing away your countries genetical diversity.....
 
Dave Bennett
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LivingWind wrote:
NAFTA is the real issue here... Signing into the agreement was also signing away your countries genetical diversity.....

huh?  What does NAFTA have to do with coconut oil from the Philippines and palm oil from Africa?
 
George Lee
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Dave Bennett wrote:
huh?  What does NAFTA have to do with coconut oil from the Philippines and palm oil from Africa?



You're a biter...ay?

The whole fair-trade fiasco was mentioned above.. I'm just chiming in..

Simmer down there Dave..

I know how it works. My dad used to oversee several commercial installations, and many we're for massive chemical agricultural firms,and such.


 
Dave Bennett
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Just asking.
 
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I'm not sure I see the point in using a lot of a fat that comes from half way around the planet when there's plenty of good fat on your own doorstep. Animal fat is a great source of vitamins and calories. It's also great for cooking in.
We use coconut oil in our house but we use it very sparingly and only for moisturizing after we have been in the sun a lot. I certainly don't use it  every day.

 
Tyler Ludens
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Some people don't eat animals.

 
Dave Bennett
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I eat animals but animal fats are not medium chain fatty acids.  I use them because they are the healthiest oil for our body.  Animal fats are long chain fatty acids and unless you do a lot of physical labor every day they can be somewhat unhealthy.  I am aging and not nearly as active as I was so what oils I use is for health reasons.  Coconut oil is a natural blood glucose reducer.  I am diabetic.  Virgin Palm Oil might have an unfamiliar but not unpleasant flavor to most people in North America but it is an excellent source of a complete blend of vitamin E (both tocopherols and tocotrienols).  Both oils have perfect ratios of Omega 3,6 & 9.  None of those nutritional attributes can be found in animal fats or from "temperate" oils.  If those oils were produced here I would certainly buy them locally but unfortunately they aren't considered commercially viable.  There are some areas in Central and South America where they are produced but industrial agriculturehas too strong of a foothold there.  I do business with a family owned and operated company that set up their supply chain as cottage industry.  The farmers are fairly compensated and everything is done in the traditional ways.  No chemicals or enzyme killing excessive heat.  It is similar to taking a long step back in history.  They process the virgin oils by hand.  I like the old ways. 
 
                                
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loved fathead and feel it is required viewing for all family practice physicians.  i have shunned processed foods for the last 5 years and i can say it is the best choice i've ever made.  i easily maintain leanness and muscle despite only exercising once or twice a week.  i don't starve myself either, i eat more fat than most anyone.  i have only had one sickness that required missed work in the last 5 years.  i am medication free and have been for a LONG time. 

people need to take this stuff very seriously.  the standard dietary recommendations of the last 30 years have done nothing but make our people sicker and fatter. 
 
Dave Bennett
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bubba29 wrote:
loved fathead and feel it is required viewing for all family practice physicians.  i have shunned processed foods for the last 5 years and i can say it is the best choice i've ever made.  i easily maintain leanness and muscle despite only exercising once or twice a week.  i don't starve myself either, i eat more fat than most anyone.  i have only had one sickness that required missed work in the last 5 years.  i am medication free and have been for a LONG time. 

people need to take this stuff very seriously.  the standard dietary recommendations of the last 30 years have done nothing but make our people sicker and fatter.   


I completely agree with you Bubba.  I have been advocating a diet since I left college in the 70's that has more emphasis on protein and fats and less so on carbs.  Carbs are still a big percentage that should be adjusted by physical activity.  Carbs should not be consumed in large quantities ever but more should be taken after strenuous exercise.  I was a weight lifter for decades until a spinal injury from an auto accident.  I did have to stop using weights because of the multiple cervical fusions but the ratios of proteins/fats/carbs did not change much.  I just ate much less food because I did not need those extra calories.  I studied nutritional healing therapy in college. 
 
steward
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I find the "Food Pyramid" produced by the FDA to be a biased "fact".  One of the primary functions of the FDA is to promote the marketing of U.S crops (and to the government "crops" are defined as cereals/grains).  Is it any wonder that they want us to eat more cereal/grain than any other food group?
 
steward
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John Polk wrote:
I find the "Food Pyramid" produced by the FDA to be a biased "fact".  One of the primary functions of the FDA is to promote the marketing of U.S crops (and to the government "crops" are defined as cereals/grains).  Is it any wonder that they want us to eat more cereal/grain than any other food group?



The USDA now has a belated attempt to correct that, as they describe in this USDA blog post (who knew the USDA had a blog??) and the pic inserted here.

usdaplate.jpg
[Thumbnail for usdaplate.jpg]
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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Notice I said "attempt." 
 
Dave Bennett
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H Ludi Tyler wrote:
That's the case with pretty much all food one purchases - the land was cleared and then planted to monocrop, whether "free trade organic" or conventional. 

Do you have s source for non-monocrop oils, or do you produce your own?


Virgin Palm Oil is one of the healthiest edible oils on the planet.  It works extremely well in  my wok and has such a high smoke point it will amaze you.  I also eat a tablespoon of it right out of the pail every morning when I wake up.  That is where I get my vitamin E and tons of beta carotene.  The flavor of red palm oil is unusual but after using it for years I love it.  In my opinion frying sweet potatoes in it makes the best "french fries" on earth. LOL

Read this about where Red Oil comes from that this company markets.

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm
Read this about how this coconut oil is made and where it comes from:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/virgin_coconut_oil.htm

These oils come from wild palm trees both in the Philippines and West Africa.  They are in essence "family forest farmers" harvesting wild coconuts.  These oils aren't from deforested areas.  I understand your environmental concerns but it is just not the case with this company and how they do business. I have been buying for them for the last 8 years.  

I have been involved in the "organic movement" since the very early 70's, back when the only way to find organic food for sale was to start a food coop or join one.
 
Dave Bennett
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PS: Because both are medium chain fatty acids the body uses them immediate for energy.  I know it sounds yucky putting a tablespoon of vegetable oil in your mouth but amazingly it does not leave your mouth greasy feeling at all.  I also eat 3-4 tablespoons of virgin coconut oil every day for blood glucose control.  It works amazingly well for that too.
 
                                
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Dave Bennett wrote:
I completely agree with you Bubba.  I have been advocating a diet since I left college in the 70's that has more emphasis on protein and fats and less so on carbs.  Carbs are still a big percentage that should be adjusted by physical activity.  Carbs should not be consumed in large quantities ever but more should be taken after strenuous exercise.  I was a weight lifter for decades until a spinal injury from an auto accident.  I did have to stop using weights because of the multiple cervical fusions but the ratios of proteins/fats/carbs did not change much.  I just ate much less food because I did not need those extra calories.  I studied nutritional healing therapy in college. 



Wow, you were way ahead of the curve.  I am curious how general nutritional advice has changed from what you learned in college 30+ years ago.
 
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bubba29 wrote:
Wow, you were way ahead of the curve.  I am curious how general nutritional advice has changed from what you learned in college 30+ years ago.


Not much for me.  I have always marched to the beat of my own drummer.  I was often at odds with my professors.  Weston Price's book had a profound influence on me.  I grew up in a medical family plus had been "schooled" in First People eastern woodlands herbals when I was in grade school.  My Dad was the only physician in that area for much of my childhood.  The only other doctor in town was an eclectic that had the coolest collection of herbal I have ever seen in one place in my life.  I didn't get into herbals again until 69-70.  I have deeply involved with nutritional healing and herbal alternatives since 73 when I dropped out of college to study the holistic approach to health challenges.  I never attended a formal school but my education has been rather complete.  I had read all of the medical books from when my Dad went to med school in the 30's by the time I was in 5th grade.  Elementary and high school was boring for me.  Not enough intellectual stimulation.  I am not as active with my sharing of advice as I was when I was younger though.  I just care for me mostly.  I do try to help people with insulin resistance use plant alternatives and dietary alterations as long as their pancreas is still functional though.  To quote Robert Hunter...... "What a long strange trip it's been."  I can hear Bobby Weir's voice now LOL.
 
Tyler Ludens
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Personally I think that is still not the best diet - in my big fat opinion vegetables should take up one half of the plate!
 
Tyler Ludens
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Dave Bennett wrote:
Virgin Palm Oil is one of the healthiest edible oils on the planet.  



I'm very tempted to order some. 

 
Dave Bennett
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H Ludi Tyler wrote:
Personally I think that is still not the best diet - in my big fat opinion vegetables should take up one half of the plate!


You don't have type II diabetes do you?  Insulin resistance makes it difficult to control blood glucose especially while cramming you body full of carbs.
 
Tyler Ludens
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I don't have diabetes, but I did maintain better (lower) weight on a low-carb diet of mostly vegetables.

 
Dave Bennett
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H Ludi Tyler wrote:
I don't have diabetes, but I did maintain better (lower) weight on a low-carb diet of mostly vegetables.


I don't have a weight problem and have very limited carb requirements that cannot be met with half of my plate being vegetables.  More than 40% carbs is asking to eventually develop insulin resistance unless you regularly exercise.
 
pollinator
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Paul and Jocelyn's podcast reviewing Supersize Me and Fathead: http://www.richsoil.com/permaculture/?s=supersize
 
Tyler Ludens
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Dave Bennett wrote:
I don't have a weight problem and have very limited carb requirements that cannot be met with half of my plate being vegetables.  More than 40% carbs is asking to eventually develop insulin resistance unless you regularly exercise.



My big fat opinion has to do with my own diet, and not yours. Though I've never heard of someone eating too many vegetables!   I guess I have to say I'm wondering what the requirement of carbs is for someone with diabetes?  Most folks with diabetes whom I know try to avoid carbs.     How much of your plate is carbs?

Most people would not think I have a "weight problem" either.  Mostly just me thinks I have a "weight problem." 

 
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Too many carbs for me?  Never more than 15 grams per meal and they must be slow acting carbs which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the glycemic index.
 
Suzy Bean
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Would you share a bit on "slow-acting carbs"?
 
Tyler Ludens
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Ok sorry, I'm totally confused.  I thought you were saying you needed to eat more carbs than would be allowed by having one half of your plate be vegetables.



Or are you saying one half of your plate being vegetables would be too many carbs?

I'm confused because most people who discuss this don't consider most vegetables to be carbs, just things like carrots and potatoes.  Not lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers,kale, etc....

 
Dave Bennett
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Can't eat tomatoes, can't and don't eat lettuce.  definitely no carrots.  There is a list of which vegetables are fast acting and which are slow acting.  I do not eat off the fast acting list.  many of my favorite food are on the fast acting list.  No tomatoes, no carrots, only dark green lettuces which are ok because they are what I like but I rarely eat lettuce of any kind.  I eat green beans and asparagus and can only eat certain types of squash.  No corn but I rarely eat any grains except once in awhile I will make something that can only be described as a very thick soft whole rye sourdough cracker.  Keeping starter alive without using the it has become a problem since I stopped making rye bread.  I love kneading dough.  It is therapeutic exercise.  Good for the soul.  My entire dietary blood glucose control is a tweaked version from the book Diabetes Solution by Richard K. Bernstein M.D.  An excellent read.  I think it should be required for all people with any blood sugar issues.  It is, in my opinion, the best information available for diabetics.  Some of the concepts presented are not what the mainstream medical community practices but...what else is new?
 
Tyler Ludens
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Thanks for clarifying, Dave. 
 
                                
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Dave:

do you ever mix fat with carbs to blunt the blood glucose levels after eating?  do you take any insulin?  at what point in your life did you discover you were insulin resistant?  how do you think you became insulin resistant?
 
Dave Bennett
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bubba29 wrote:
Dave:

do you ever mix fat with carbs to blunt the blood glucose levels after eating? 
do you take any insulin? 
at what point in your life did you discover you were insulin resistant? 
how do you think you became insulin resistant?


Yes I eat fats with my carbs.  I eat fats with every meal.  My diet is pretty regimented.  I am not anal about the proportions of the foods but I pay attention to my "sugar" levels regularly.

No, I am not insulin resistance.....my pancreas still works.  I sometimes us a beat stimulator if my "sugar" is too high.  For me that means over 110.  I do not eat until my level is around 70.  I always try to keep it below 100 but 80-90 is ideal if you want to heal any of the diabetic side effects.

I officially learned about my insulin resistance in 2008.  I have thought about it often and have decided that I had some subtle symptoms late in 2007.

I cannot answer your last question.  I have not had anywhere near a poor diet in my entire life.  I have been much more athletic than the average person, also for most of my life.  I don't fit the profile for this health challenge. 
 
                                
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some of you should look up robb wolf and his work. 
http://robbwolf.com/2011/07/07/back-from-the-beyond-updates-and-musings/
he is doing a lot to change the way people eat and is also advocating permaculture.  bet he could learn a lot here and many here may learn a lot from his writing and lecturing on more traditional diets.
 
Dave Bennett
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bubba29 wrote:
some of you should look up robb wolf and his work. 
http://robbwolf.com/2011/07/07/back-from-the-beyond-updates-and-musings/
he is doing a lot to change the way people eat and is also advocating permaculture.  bet he could learn a lot here and many here may learn a lot from his writing and lecturing on more traditional diets.


Thanks for the link Bubba.  I think we are all learning from each other.
 
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I get yr point Dave and I read yr post with interest,
but if you live in the US, and yr oil travels from Africa or the Phillipines, and you factor in the fossil fuel used in transport -
is it environmentally sound?

Dave Bennett wrote:
Virgin Palm Oil is one of the healthiest edible oils on the planet.  It works extremely well in  my wok and has such a high smoke point it will amaze you.  I also eat a tablespoon of it right out of the pail every morning when I wake up.  That is where I get my vitamin E and tons of beta carotene.  The flavor of red palm oil is unusual but after using it for years I love it.  In my opinion frying sweet potatoes in it makes the best "french fries" on earth. LOL

Read this about where Red Oil comes from that this company markets.

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm
Read this about how this coconut oil is made and where it comes from:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/virgin_coconut_oil.htm

These oils come from wild palm trees both in the Philippines and West Africa.  They are in essence "family forest farmers" harvesting wild coconuts.  These oils aren't from deforested areas.  I understand your environmental concerns but it is just not the case with this company and how they do business. I have been buying for them for the last 8 years.  

I have been involved in the "organic movement" since the very early 70's, back when the only way to find organic food for sale was to start a food coop or join one.

 
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I eat meat and love it. But to the people saying "Gosh, animal fat is great and awesome, healthy, etc. pp." - Why do we Carnivors fart like Klingons after a good a steak then? 

It's not healthy to eat too much meat, eggs, etc. Otherwise we wouldn't fart. It just tastes great. Like tobacco or alcohol (just less harmful). It's a luxury good and musn't be part of a daily diet.

If you want calories and proteins go for nuts. You won't fart from them that's for sure.
 
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I think it is funny with these movies is that shock is often a "selling" feature rather than content. From the outset of Supersize Me, Morgan Spirlock's sole goal is to become the American norm, a theoretical fat lazy American. The spin-doctery of this movie reminded me of most of the movies by Michael Moore. Both are highly slanted and maybe it is the extreme slant is the selling feature. Far more people know of Supersize Me, rather than Food Inc. which was a much better movie in my opinion. The average Joe is drawn to extremes. Just look at reality tv. Most people in New Jersey does not act like the people on Jersey Shore. But a crap load of people watched that show.

I think that people need to understand how the media is able to spin a subject to always have the slant they want.
 
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