• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Mike Jay Haasl
  • Burra Maluca
garden masters:
  • James Freyr
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Steve Thorn
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Dave Burton
  • Pearl Sutton

Wood Stove, any point in adding fire brick?

 
Posts: 41
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just bought a wood stove. The woodstove has no firebrick. It's just a burn chamber and then it looks like there's an air chamber around that to trap heat. Will I get better performance out of this stove if I install fire brick to add some additional thermal mass?
 
Posts: 567
Location: Mid-Michigan
37
duck forest garden trees hunting books food preservation bee solar
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thermal mass? No.

BUT most stoves DO have a brick floor to keep from burning through. The heat of the coals right on the steel stove floor year after year degrades it; the bricks protect the floor.
 
Michael Young
Posts: 41
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Cantrell wrote:Thermal mass? No.

BUT most stoves DO have a brick floor to keep from burning through. The heat of the coals right on the steel stove floor year after year degrades it; the bricks protect the floor.



This stove has no fire bricks on the floor. Should I add fire brick to the floor? And does it need some sort of metal grate like you have in a fireplace - to hold the wood? or do I just chunk the wood in there and set it on fire? It's been fifteen years since I've had a wood stove. I don't remember much
 
Mike Cantrell
Posts: 567
Location: Mid-Michigan
37
duck forest garden trees hunting books food preservation bee solar
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yep, put firebrick on the floor. But no need for a grate. The stove should be designed so that air gets to the wood just fine.
 
Posts: 137
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I looked at at least 100 used stoves this year and finally found the one I could afford and wanted. I saw NONE that had firebrick only on the floor. Most all were just steel. (and the bricks were not removed).
My Wood Furnace has an air gap completely around the fire chamber. It has Firebricks on all sides. Even the back. But None on the Floor. That is where my fresh air comes in and also ashes fall thru the floor and go into my Ash Chamber. I pull out the ash drawer which is far below my floor grid. The top of my fire box has another protective welded panel and then two more walls. Hot air blows all around the second wall and out into duct work which is far above the furnace. I really see the need for the fire brick on the sides and back. Those coals get very hot and protect the steel walls.
I would put firebrick on all three sides just for protection, If you can. Just my opinion. Good Luck
 
Michael Young
Posts: 41
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Cantrell wrote:Yep, put firebrick on the floor. But no need for a grate. The stove should be designed so that air gets to the wood just fine.




Well I reckon I'll be picking up some fire brick tomorrow.

any idea what to use to make the bricks stick to the metal? is there some sort of high temp mortar, or will it work just fine to use some of that red high temp silicone caulk to glue them on??

Can't wait to get this sucker fired up
 
gardener
Posts: 2983
Location: Upstate NY, zone 5
129
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Why glue the bricks to the floor? Aren't they contained by the sides of the firebox and held down by gravity? Even the firebricks on the sides of the firebox can probably be held in by proper fitting instead of trying to fasten them to the steel (which will expand very differently from the brick when heated, stressing any rigid connection). You might try putting side bricks in vertically and then fitting (and cutting if necessary) the floor bricks to wedge them in place.
 
pollinator
Posts: 261
Location: Ozarks
62
homeschooling goat dog tiny house chicken cooking building solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Never seen them on the floor. You should always leave about an inch of ash on the floor. Firebrick on the sides not only protect the steel but make the stove run at a more constant temp and adds just a bit of thermal mass. Same fire in identical stoves, one with brick, one without and the sidewalls on the one without will be a lot hotter. Maybe dangerously so. The kind of hot that can melt or ignite things close by. All dependent on the thickness of the steel and the extremity of the fire of course.
 
Posts: 7052
Location: Arkansas Ozarks zone 7 alluvial,black,deep loam/clay with few rocks, wonderful creek bottom!
1070
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Michael Young wrote:I just bought a wood stove. The woodstove has no firebrick. It's just a burn chamber and then it looks like there's an air chamber around that to trap heat. Will I get better performance out of this stove if I install fire brick to add some additional thermal mass?



I had to go look in our wood stove to be absolutely sure...no fire brick on the floor or anywhere except lining the door. If you have never used your stove before I think I would hesitate to modify it any before first trying it out. I wouldn't want our fire box any smaller...we put a big log in at night. I can only dream of a rocket mass heater and hint strongly to our sons
 
Michael Young
Posts: 41
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for all the input Permies

I've got to do a little chipping to make this sucker fit.

Another 1-1/2" fighting with it and this woodstove is installed (Callooh! Callay!). Can't wait to get it fired up
 
Jeremiah wales
Posts: 137
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Whats the latest Michael? How is it going with Firebrick?
 
Michael Young
Posts: 41
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for asking Jeremy.

Wood stove is installed and running good. When I get a good fire in there, I'm getting temp readings of 200. But I need to buy a more accurate thermometer because this one only goes up to 200

I sometimes have a little problem with draft. When I'm first lighting it, and sometimes when I open the front to add more wood, I'll get some smoke inside the house. I was expecting, with good draw, there would be suction to pull smoke up and out. So not sure why I'm having the problem.

The blower is position poorly. So at the end of the season I'll be taking it to a welder and having the blower port moved so I can fit a bigger blower. I found one of those old cast iron tea/coffee pot looking things at a garage sale for $5-bucks. I recycle citrus peels by dropping them into water in that cast iron kettle thing. So I get a light orange aroma which is kinda nice.
 
Jeremiah wales
Posts: 137
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Years ago. I had a regular chimney in the house . It always worked great. Now Chimney was removed in this house. I set up my furnace going out the window area, until I get it fine tuned. I had to make several changes to get good draft in mine. Now it works too good. But I am still not happy, I use black stove pipe noninsulated. I feel that is my shortfall. But the draw is great. No More smoke back into the house.. No buildup in the stove either. After this season. I will replace some of the firebrick. Some of it is original and has cracked pretty well. But I will repair and reinstall to get it right for next season.
 
Posts: 252
Location: Nevada
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
RE: smoke, what kind of wood and kindling are you using?
 
Posts: 136
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've had and used several stoves over the last 30 years.  Serious use, too.  3-5 cords a year.  Two came with firebrick.  I removed it to get larger chunks of wood in.  While I can see the argument for firebrick on the floor where hot coals are in contact with the steel, most of the time there is a thick layer of ash in the bottom of the stove.  I noticed no difference in performance on any of them.

Sheet metal stoves -- the kind you use to heat a wall tent hunting -- often had a sacrificial liner pan you used in the stove.  Every couple of years you replaced it.  But generally these were fired up without ashes in them a lot more often than a stove that is permanently in place.

I had a barrel stove made from a kit.  They cautioned that you should keep a couple inches of ash in it for longer barrel life.
 
pollinator
Posts: 118
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
On a few of the steel bodied stoves we have, I've replaced the steel plate 'fireplates' with insulating vermiculite firebricks.

This inevitably reduces the size of the inside of the firebox but the stoves performance is improved immensely. Burns are now much hotter and cleaner.

We used to have insulating firebricks on the base of our ESSE woodfired cookstove firebox but they also supplied you with a steel plate to protect these from abrasion from the logs. All other woodstoves we've ever owned relied on a bed of wood ash on the floor of the firebox to act as insulation and protection.
 
Sherwood Botsford
Posts: 136
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Michael Young wrote:Thanks for asking Jeremy.


I sometimes have a little problem with draft. When I'm first lighting it, and sometimes when I open the front to add more wood, I'll get some smoke inside the house. I was expecting, with good draw, there would be suction to pull smoke up and out. So not sure why I'm having the problem.

.



Remember that your whole house has a 'stack effect'  In our house, the wood stove is in the 1 story part.  If someone has a window cracked open in 2 story part, that draft wins. Try cracking a window open near the stove while you are starting it up.  
 
Posts: 499
Location: Rural Unincorporated Los Angeles County Zone 10b
32
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One simple solution for stove lighting problems is to install an outside air kit. It allows the stove to draw combustion air from outside the house so you don't have to open windows to get it going.



Ours draws air from the basement which is passively vented to the outside.


Greg

 
Greg Mamishian
Posts: 499
Location: Rural Unincorporated Los Angeles County Zone 10b
32
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We've never had a stove that had firebrick on the firebox floor because we bought stoves rated to burn coal which use thick robust cast iron grates that don't burn out. This is the firebox on our Morso Squirrel.




Greg
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://stoves2.com
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!