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Hi from the Netherlands

 
pollinator
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I'm new in this forum. I know about permaculture for many years. I do my best to follow principles in my life. But I did not call it 'doing permaculture'...
This year I really started a 'permaculture herb spiral' in my front yard. I found out I need to learn a lot more about theory and practice of permaculture in the garden! Step by step I'm finding the information I need at the internet. That's why I arrived here at 'permies'. Are here any other people from/ living in the Netherlands? I live in the eastern part, Drenthe.
 
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Bart Meijer is a fellow permie from the Netherlands. You can say hi to him over at his introduction thread and purple mooseage him to get in touch.

More permaculture people can be found by visiting the Permaculture Global Map. There are also quite a few ecovillages in Norway that you can try contacting to learn more about.You can find them at the Global Ecovillage Network Map.

I have compiled some resources to learn permaculture in the Guide to Getting Help on Permaculture Projects thread.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Thank you. I'm in contact now with more permaculture people through Facebook. There are some Dutch groups there about permaculture in general, food-foresting and other related subjects.
Norway is Europe too, but all countries are different. Maybe eco-villages are not (yet) here, because of the very strict laws on building/housing in the Netherlands. There are some urban and local food-forests, maintained by groups of people. Also in my town we have plans to start a project in which permaculture is embedded.
 
Dave Burton
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Sorry about that. I accidentally thought about the wrong country on the map. There are more ecovillages in the Netherlands than Norway. They can be found in the relevant map that i added a hyperlink to in the earlier post.

I'm glad to hear that you are finding people in your country that can you talk with!

Please keep us posted on the permaculture project that is going on in your town. A great place to keep the permies community up to date on projects is by starting a thread in the projects subforum.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Thanks Dave. I had a look at the map now. I see the closest by is Zwolle (15 minutes by train from here), but it's not a real 'eco-village'. Someone living there has her PDC and designed some community gardens.
This week I'll be visiitng my daughter in Zwolle. Maybe we'll have a look at such a (permaculture) community garden. Probably my daughter knows where they are.
 
Dave Burton
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You're welcome. I hope your search for a permaculture community goes well. If all else fails, there is the permies community online and people to get in touch with through Permaculture Global.

Please keep us posted on permaculture developments in your area!
 
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Dag Inge,

We're in Zutphen, so not far from you. Started our project last year on 400m2 or so. Small food forest, annuals and perrenial planting.

Still finding our way, but enjoying the journey.


Rus
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Hi Rus,

Zutphen is an ideal town (and surroundings) for permaculture. Already many people living there are interested in a sustainable way of living. You'll probably find your way there! I have not been there for many years. Maybe now I started practicing permaculture I have a reason to visit Zutphen again.

My town Meppel is not yet used to permaculture. But I found out the group of interested people is growing, and there is the will to start a community project.

Yesterday I was at Zwolle. My daughter lives there. We made a bicycle tour and had a view at the 'earthship' building in the park Nooterhof.
 
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Hi folks,

Ivar from Arnhem here.
I just came back from Wageningen where a group of people living in a forrest as permie as they can.
They started building a earthship-ish struckture and my roll is building a Rocket Mass Heater in there.
Fantastic site and very challenging project for me aswelk hence its my first RMH I ever build.

Will post a link later with the building process documented.
They have a permagarden allready and live more or less independed / off grid.
Check out www.partijvoordeplanten.nl for some info about them.

As soon as I have a bit more time I will check out your projects too.

Saludos de Arnhem.
image.jpeg
[Thumbnail for image.jpeg]
"Earthship" @ Ppauw Wageningen
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Thank you Ivar. This is interesting.
 
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have you heard of the living village, levende dorp. and or ecotribe teuge ?
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Yes Ben, I heard about both. When possible I want to have a look at the Living Village. Interesting to 'grow' living houses!
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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News from Meppel: the 'Permacultuur Meppel' project has started! It's great we got permission of Town Council to start a community garden in a corner of the park nearby! Last Friday we visited the permaculture vegetable garden of Transition Town Vollenhove (another small town in the region). We were with 8 from Meppel and 2 from Vollenhove. I'll show you; this is Ineke from Vollenhove telling us all about the garden.

And here you see some people in Meppel doing observations in the park.


More news will follow ...
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Sorry ... I put the thread about my garden in the Projects, Urban Forum: https://permies.com/t/48736/urban/Permaculture-small-Dutch-town
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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It has been (too) long since I posted in this thread.
How are the other Dutch Permies (and non-Dutch Permies living in the Netherlands) doing?

Permaculture is surely growing here. In Meppel the community garden is doing well and is extended with a narrow 'food forest strip'. Now in winter there isn't much activity, but of course there are plans for the new season. Last year (April) the seed and cuttings swap day was a great success, so there will be such a day again (probably each year).

With help of three friends I had my garden shed demolished, to make room for growing more edible plants in the back yard. This first year I'll plant annual vegetables in added soil and compost and do a lot of mulching and chop & drop. There was no real soil, it's very sandy. Maybe next autumn I'll start making some more hugelkultur-like beds for planting perennials. In the front yard, where I started with a herb-spiral four years ago I did some interesting experiments (see one of my other threads). It's still a 'future miniature permaculture food forest'. The yield exists mostly of berries, but trees are growing.

During this non-gardening season I am doing my best to apply all I learned on permaculture principles by writing a book. This is going to be a 'different' kind of book. I am writing it with young people in mind (teenagers, young adults), who might have heard the word 'permaculture', but do not really know it. It's a fiction story in which different aspects of permaculture are explained in a 'hidden' way. Not all about gardening, maybe even more on the social side of permaculture. My goal is to write (re-write, correct, and illustrate) all the story during this year and then to publish the book next year. If you're interested, there's a FB-page (in Dutch): https://www.facebook.com/Tanyashuisje/
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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I wanted to share this here on Permies. Marc Siepman is (in my opinion) one of the best Dutch speakers / teachers on permaculture-related subjects. Because he was invited in Rumania he did a talk in English (instead of Dutch). So everyone here can understand him!
video Marc
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Hallo Nederlandse Permies.
Ik heb al een poos niks gedaan met deze 'thread'.
Misschien is het leuk om gezamenlijk in het Nederlands van gedachten te wisselen over Permacultuur?
Of toch in het Engels, zodat anderen kunnen meelezen, maar dan wel over Permacultuur in Nederland?
 
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hallo Nederlandse Permies.
Ik heb al een poos niks gedaan met deze 'thread'.
Misschien is het leuk om gezamenlijk in het Nederlands van gedachten te wisselen over Permacultuur?
Of toch in het Engels, zodat anderen kunnen meelezen, maar dan wel over Permacultuur in Nederland?



I would enjoy that, and learn more! (I don't speak Dutch yet, despite my name, but I can always use the 'translate' button).

Erik
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Erik van Lennep wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hallo Nederlandse Permies.
Ik heb al een poos niks gedaan met deze 'thread'.
Misschien is het leuk om gezamenlijk in het Nederlands van gedachten te wisselen over Permacultuur?
Of toch in het Engels, zodat anderen kunnen meelezen, maar dan wel over Permacultuur in Nederland?



I would enjoy that, and learn more! (I don't speak Dutch yet, despite my name, but I can always use the 'translate' button).

Erik


No problem Erik. We'll communicate in English. Then much more people can understand. (I don't like the translations given by the internet).
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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If I want more people to react ... I think I have to write something myself now and then.

I am used to share my news and photos on facebook. But I understand many people don't like facebook (because of different reasons I understand). I'll do my best to share some more here too.

During this summer I was busy getting some BBs, even a real Badge, of the PEP / SKIP program. Not because I think of inheriting property. I don't even know if that's possible here in the Netherlands if you're not a family member. No, I just do things I already was doing or did before, but now made photos of what I do and how I do it. To encourage others.

One of these was Foraging. I do forage for wild vegetables and fruits since my teenage years (sometimes very active, sometimes not so). My parents, especially my mother, knew/know about wild edibles too. At the PEP Forum I shared photos of how I picked blackberries (bramen), black cherries (Amerikaanse vogelkersen).and some herbs for tea. Here you see some of them too:


Picking black cherries, only the ripe ones.


Blackberries


Mint growing along the old canal (watermunt, mentha aquatica)

 
Erik van Lennep
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:If I want more people to react ... I think I have to write something myself now and then.
....   I do forage for wild vegetables and fruits since my teenage years (sometimes very active, sometimes not so).



I am in Maastricht, on the edge of town, so I can easily walk or take my bike to the countryside. I also have been foraging, both for edibles and for craft supplies to use in home schooling bush crafts. In October I will be here one year already, and I have also made my foraging trips to orient myself to my new home. Quite a lot of what I pick as wild fruits, herbs and greens end up in lacto-ferments I make for the family I now live with. We go through a few liters a month, so production is continuous except for the few weeks where the weather was too hot for good fermentation. It's a lot of fun, and quite creative. I never make the same batch twice.

And now we are starting the season for edible fungi. My favorite!
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Maybe you don't know what is PEP, SKIP or a BB. Or you don't know how to post photos here ... You can read more in this thread: https://permies.com/wiki/147283/skills-inherit-property/Badge-Bit-BB
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Erik van Lennep wrote: ...   I also have been foraging, both for edibles and for craft supplies to use in home schooling bush crafts. In October I will be here one year already, and I have also made my foraging trips to orient myself to my new home. Quite a lot of what I pick as wild fruits, herbs and greens end up in lacto-ferments I make for the family I now live with. We go through a few liters a month, so production is continuous except for the few weeks where the weather was too hot for good fermentation. It's a lot of fun, and quite creative. I never make the same batch twice.

And now we are starting the season for edible fungi. My favorite!


Hi Erik. Can you tell a little bit more on your lacto-ferments? How do you do it (adding salt or salt water or something else)? What kind of fruits, herbs or greens are good to use for it?
 
Erik van Lennep
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Hi Erik. Can you tell a little bit more on your lacto-ferments? How do you do it (adding salt or salt water or something else)? What kind of fruits, herbs or greens are good to use for it?

........

I always start with some kind of cabbage; normally either ordinary cabbage, Chinese cabbage or kale; whatever is in season. The family likes red ferments better than green & white, so I normally include some red cabbage.
I shred a bunch, roughly, and put it into a large bowl or a stainless steel soup pot.Then I add a few tablespoons of sea salt or Himalayan salt and scrunch it all together with my hands. Like-hand washing a piece of fabric with stubborn stains, it has to be very well scrunched. If your hands get tired you're doing it right. I suppose you could use a heavy wooden masher or the pestle from a mortar and pestle, but with clean hands I think you literally get a better feel for the process.

I have to say, I don't actually measure the salt, other than by eye and taste. It should be salty, but not overwhelmingly so. If you're just starting, you might want to look up a few recipes and go by more exact measurements until you get a feel for it. I do NOT add water. The idea is for the salt to draw the juices out of the cabbage and make enough liquid to cover it.

Once I have the starter cabbage soaking in its own juices, I add whatever is in season, both wild and from the local organic farm. I always include several onions and a couple of entire garlic bulbs, both chopped roughly. Don't worry about overwhelming the mix with the alliums, everything tends to equal out and mellow during the few weeks of fermentation. It's not strictly necessary, but I like to add a small amount of fruit to get the ferment started faster (sugars). Other good sources of sugar are beets and carrots. Once it is ready, there won't be any sweetness left, but if you use a strong fruit like fresh quince, it will still have a trace of aroma.

As I add, I mix it all well and do some more scrunching, but not as energetically as the first bit with the cabbage.I normally include several kinds of whole spice seeds: coriander, cumin, mustard and black pepper are 'standards', and depending on which direction I'm taking the mix, I could include dill, caraway, chili, black cumin (Nigella sativa). Think of this assembly process as creative cooking. You're selecting from a range of tastes and textures to make something fun, delicious and healthy.

Next, the mix is packed solidly into glass jars. I use a wooden pestle to help me get it rammed in and remove all the air bubbles. It's surprising how much of the looser mix fits into just a few jars.

I started this adventure living in coastal Spain, where the Mediterranean growing season brings all kinds of edible greens and herbs into leaf for a few months in the winter and early spring. Most won't do well being dried, so I decided to preserve the bounty by making ferments. Now it has become part of my garden and foraging cycle of appreciation.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Thank you Erik. Now I understand, you mean you make something like Sauerkraut ('zuurkool' in Dutch). And then you add herbs to it. I thought you made a ferment of wild vegetables/herbs only. I do make 'zuurkool' too, in the season when the cabbages are cheap and plenty. I try to grow kale and cabbages myself, maybe I will have kale from the garden coming winter. The young cabbage plants were all eaten by the slugs. I do have a large perennial kale plant too. It is also very damaged by the slugs, but still alive and growing. Maybe those leaves will be good for fermenting.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Here you can see how I do it (the same as you explained):
https://permies.com/wiki/105983/pep-food-prep-preservation/Salt-brine-ferment-pickle-PEP#1020972
 
Erik van Lennep
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:The young cabbage plants were all eaten by the slugs. I do have a large perennial kale plant too. It is also very damaged by the slugs, but still alive and growing. Maybe those leaves will be good for fermenting.



Too bad we can't make edible slug ferments!
 
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Here you can see how I do it (the same as you explained):
https://permies.com/wiki/105983/pep-food-prep-preservation/Salt-brine-ferment-pickle-PEP#1020972



Yes!! Looks almost the same as my process looks:) I would characterize mine as a mix of sauerkraut and kimchi. I also like Natasha Rutherford's chili kraut recipe on the same page as yours.
I normally add lots of chili and fresh ginger slices. I like the 'picante' side of the culinary scale.

 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Now I have a personal thread (in the secret part of the forum) to put my photos in. Now the photos I show on the forum won't disappear ...
Here's a new photo of my front yard, my experiment with rainwater catchment


I'll go searching for the older photos that disappeared, post them in my personal thread, and then here (if I can still edit those old posts).
 
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:
Here's a new photo of my front yard, my experiment with rainwater catchment


Nice! It also looks musical. Does it have a nice tone when the water is moving through the stones and tiles?


 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Erik, because there is only water flowing while it rains, I hear 'sound' but not 'music'.
And the experiment has proven that water disappears in the sandy soil immediately.
 
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Erik, because there is only water flowing while it rains, I hear 'sound' but not 'music'.
And the experiment has proven that water disappears in the sandy soil immediately.



I was reminded of a delightful storm water system I saw in Malmo Sweden. The designers  were able to "tune" the water channels by moving the stones around.
And yes, it also only flowed during rain.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Today I went on a not-too-long bicycle trip. It's the time to forage for nuts and I remembered a chestnut tree. On my way to the chestnut tree I discovered a walnut tree with many low hanging walnuts. I picked all nuts I could reach. I put them in my hat and made some photos:

Hat with walnuts


The walnut tree with many low branches


All together in one picture.


The chestnut tree, and my bicycle. The tree is in someone's garden, but part of the nuts fall next to the street (where everyone is allowed to pick them up).


Chestnuts.

 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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There was something I wanted to write about ... but I forgot what it was.
Then I'll show you a photo of my cotton plants, growing in the window sil.


I got the seeds from a fluffy cotton ball I found in the HEMA shop. They sell the branches with seed balls as decorations, this one was fallen off such a branch. I took that ball apart, probably once I'll spin the cotton (I have a spindle), the seeds I put in a pot with soil. I watered them very well until they sprouted. I'll make more photos to show you when they grow (and to share it too in the thread on growing cotton in cold climates).
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
Posts: 1860
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
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Now I remembered what I wanted to share here. The pollard willow (Dutch: knotwilg) and the way I moved the branches with my bicycle.


willow before (pollarded some years ago the last time)


branches on my bicycle, moving them to ...


the community garden of Permacultuur Meppel; our 'wilgenhut' is in desperate need of renovation


group of volunteers (Permacultuur Meppel) busy with the willow
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
Posts: 1860
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
578
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Are there more Permies living in the Netherlands? If so, please react here (even only a few words, or just say 'Hi'). It's only because I am curious to know about Permies in the Netherlands.
 
gardener
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Location: France, Burgundy, parc naturel Morvan
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Hi Inge, I'm Dutch, but i live in France. I guess that's not what you mean, but anyway wanted to say Hi!!
Kind regards, Hugo
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
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Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
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Hugo Morvan wrote:Hi Inge, I'm Dutch, but i live in France. I guess that's not what you mean, but anyway wanted to say Hi!!
Kind regards, Hugo


Hugo, that's OK too.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
Posts: 1860
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
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After many years of gardening only in front and back yard (and a little in the community garden) I will finally start in an allotment garden ('volkstuin' in Dutch)! About a year ago I subscribed to one of the local allotment associations (the one closest by). A few days ago someone I know (from the permaculture community garden) who has a garden there too told me to come and have a look. Someone we both know (a biodynamic gardener) stopped gardening because of his health problems. If I was interested in that garden i could have it, because then they would not have to 'clean' it. Of course I was interested! Today I saw it. Indeed there's some work to do. But the advantage is: it has been worked in biodynamic way for many years, no chemicals used.
It has a triangular shape, is about 150 square meters and there are already a few apple trees and berry bushes.

 
Hugo Morvan
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excellent Inge, not too big! Can bring some people together to help turn it into a beautiful garden full of flowers and life!
 
What are you saying? I thought you said that Santa gave you that. And this tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
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