land aquisition...buy it or lease it, and pig watering

Grant,

I would like to know your thoughts on buying vs. leasing land. I live in Virginia about 45 miles from Washington D.C. where the land prices are outrageous; that's the bad news. The good news is I'm 45 miles from 6 million people who have the money to purchase my products. Greg Judy and Joel Salatin are always saying to lease land, use portable infrastructure, etc. That's all well and good unless one wants to set up a silvopasture farm. That's the crux of my delimma. Unless I had a forty year lease, and those are rare, I don't see any sense in planting thousands of trees when I don't actually own the land. Do you know of anyone practicing silvopasture on leased land?

Also....What type of watering system do you use for your pigs, i.e. tub/trough, nipple drinker, etc. ?

Thanks for all you do.
Gene

Gene Price wrote:Grant,

I would like to know your thoughts on buying vs. leasing land. I live in Virginia about 45 miles from Washington D.C. where the land prices are outrageous; that's the bad news. The good news is I'm 45 miles from 6 million people who have the money to purchase my products. Greg Judy and Joel Salatin are always saying to lease land, use portable infrastructure, etc. That's all well and good unless one wants to set up a silvopasture farm. That's the crux of my delimma. Unless I had a forty year lease, and those are rare, I don't see any sense in planting thousands of trees when I don't actually own the land. Do you know of anyone practicing silvopasture on leased land?

Gene

Hate to be a spoiler - but land lease rates track pretty well with a land purchase (mortgage payment). With leasing, you're never building any equity, period (but you are for SOMEONE ELSE!).

I'm currently leasing land on a 5-year lease - with a WRITTEN OPTION TO PURCHASE in place as part of the lease. I would not be doing what I do here without that option to purchase. My landlords and I - I thought- shared a passion for converting land to non-chemical use. In short, it's been incredibly difficult to manage expectations of a non-farming landlord and I wish I owned the spot outright.

Greg Judy lives in a part of Missouri where a lot of St Louis money owns the majority of his surrounding land as a twice-a-year rural hunting escape. It makes perfect sense for him to lease land here (at sweetheart rental rates of little or no money - yes free). Greg is incredibly smart. Why buy land when you don't have to? Greg also owns a few farms as long-term bases of operations.

Unfortunately few areas of the country provide this sort of economic dysfunction. FORTUNATELY, your area of Virginia may be one of them.

RUN THE COMPARISON NUMBERS

Gene Price wrote:Grant,

Also....What type of watering system do you use for your pigs, i.e. tub/trough, nipple drinker, etc. ?

Gene

A mix.
1) Nipple waterer u-bolted to a t-post
2)Tubs and troughs
3)Soon enough some frost-free waterers will be installed

I'd like to put together one of these guys:



The lovely folks at Farm Hack (<--ANYONE can post) have uploaded some great DIY designs for portable livestock waterers

http://farmhack.org/tools/waterer-rotational-grazing

and

http://farmhack.org/tools/tough-inexpensive-pastured-pig-waterer