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need a full time resort manager for 2016 for great pay  RSS feed

 
paul wheaton
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I think the tipi with the rocket mass heater is well on its way to being a glamping site. But it is missing the primary ingredient: somebody who will make it a beautiful experience.

There is a place near here that rents out tents for $1600 per day. It includes food and experiences like fishing and horseback riding.

I think a resort manager could rent the tipi for something like $80 per night to start and within a couple of months get it up to $140 per night and then come up with ways to rent it for $250 per night .... and on and on ... With the tipi could come one "willow feeder", plus all the gardens surrounding it, plus one 4wd electric vehicle, plus the best part: a full time guide to permaculture and natural building. I think it would actually do better in the winter than in the summer as people build experiences with rocket mass heaters.

People have jobs and dream of coming out and living a permaculture experience. They get only two weeks of vacation per year, and this could be three days of that - or seven.

At $100 per night, if it is rented out 70% of the time, that would gross $25,000.

Throw in a guide, an electric vehicle, food and a collection of experiences and somebody would pay $1500 for one week out of the tipi. In time it might get to be much, much more. Grossing more than $100,000. In time, add two more structures and you are beyond $300,000 per year.

Next, I think such a person could arrange workshops. Coordinate the teachers and students and oversee the event. Tie it in with the glamping. And camping. I would even be open to having such a person run point on the rocket mass heater innovators event.

I think a pro at this position would net about $40,000 in the first year for glamping/camping. And $40,000 more from organizing workshops. And get that up 50% more the second year.

I think it is important to keep in mind that geoff lawton had an intern program where 23 people paid $7700 each to spend six weeks at geoff's place. That's $177,100.

I also think that it is possible that there are resort managers that will be less professional than they think. Or they have experience that does not map well to this environment. Hence the business relationship rooted in a cut of the action: a pro will do great marketing coupled with a great product and rake in fantastic coin. Somebody with less experience will accomplish less - thus their annual income will be smaller.

The key is that I want to have somebody lined up to work on this angle asap. Hopefully somebody with many years of experience with decorating, organizing and business. Somebody that can arrange workshops. Somebody that has listened to at least 200 of the podcasts and will live here.

So I am putting this out there in the hopes that this will happen.
 
lorance romero
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Hmmmm.... this description gets my restaurant owner/manager, hospitality person, juices flowing. Several questions come to mind.
1) Autonomy? Who would be in charge of the resort phase, Paul or me?
2) Where would I live, How would I eat as I was building this great resort?
3) Resorts usually mean services, ie: who will clean the guests tipi, make the guests bed, feed the guests? Would you be looking for direction from the resort director?
4) Any kind of budget to work with?
5) What kind of profit expectations do you have?
6) I've listened to 76 podcasts and counting.

My wife and I are retired with a fixed income so making money immediately would not be a problem for us.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
 
paul wheaton
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lorance romero wrote:
1) Autonomy? Who would be in charge of the resort phase, Paul or me?


The short answer is "yes."

A longer answer involves this, how we arrange our business relationship and the knowledge that you have listened to most of my podcasts.




2) Where would I live, How would I eat as I was building this great resort?


Again, it would depend on the business relationship we arrange.

I think some people might want some help getting established and then transition into a collection of business relationships. I think that in the first year, such a person could bring $100,000 to the lab and they would keep half. On year three, I think such a person could bring $500,000 to the lab and keep about $150,000. With the remainder going to a collection of other people that would be involved in these projects.



3) Resorts usually mean services, ie: who will clean the guests tipi, make the guests bed, feed the guests? Would you be looking for direction from the resort director?


I would be thinking that the manager would crunch the numbers and make it work. There are thousands of different paths. And for each path that works, I suspect that there are a thousand that don't.



4) Any kind of budget to work with?
5) What kind of profit expectations do you have?


I can come up with funds to get things started. But I don't know how long I can keep pouring money into this space.

Profit? As in money that I put into my pocket? I don't need to put any money in my pocket. What I do need is move this project forward and move the other projects forward. And I need them to get to a self sustaining point so I don't need to keep working to put money in.

So I will want a fat cut so that I move other aspects forward. Both those aspects will, in turn, feed the "resort" aspect.

 
lorance romero
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Paul, thank you for your reply

I take it you are looking for someone with experience to direct the "resort" with ideas towards the comfort and joyful experience of the glampors while trying to secure funds for further projects of world domination. Further, you are looking for someone with a bunch of ideas to entertain folks and make their visit enjoyable, memorable and exciting. All of this to be accomplished through the watchful, benevolence of yourself.

Ideas:

1) Yes you and your family can spend the weekend in a real live tipi where you can experience the warm comforting heat of a RMH
2) Come to the land of permaculture, get away from all the hustle and bustle of the big city
3) Ever pooped in a outhouse, wanna get in touch with how your ancestors use to do their business
4) Ever killed, dressed, butchered, cooked your own pig, cow, squirrel, bear, elk, porcupine, swan, duck, moose, deer, chicken, wanna? we can show you how for a price.
5) Ever run a backhoe
6) Wanna chop down a tree
7) Tour guides available for your personal trip to the back country to see lots of trees etc
Ever seen two pigs doing it?
9) Help with this years harvest. Bring the kids to dig up the potatoes and carrots and put them up for the winter.

In all seriousness, I can see the opportunities to share with others depending on the time of the year.
 
paul wheaton
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I want to get back to finishing the writing of three books, recording hundreds of podcasts and writing oodles of articles. I have lots to do.

The tipi is starting to show signs of wear, so it is time to replace it. But without somebody living in it, it will burn through canvas pretty quick.

Plus, I think that over the last six months somebody could have rented it out for a hundred days to maybe a dozen individuals and a couple dozen couples at $60 per night. Thus putting a few thousand dollars in their own pocket and a few thousand into projects here. And then the idea of replacing the canvas seems like not such a big deal. And maybe some of those people would have signed up for deep roots or to be an ant or something.

So I would focus on other projects while somebody else would take care of the people passing through and marketing and stuff.

And then when we get to the innovators event, somebody else would be taking care of the web pages, marketing, greeting people and all that - for a fat cut of the action.

And then this same person would start to schedule a variety of events, all mapped out more than a year in advance.


I take it you are looking for someone with experience to direct the "resort" with ideas towards the comfort and joyful experience of the glampors while trying to secure funds for further projects of world domination. Further, you are looking for someone with a bunch of ideas to entertain folks and make their visit enjoyable, memorable and exciting. All of this to be accomplished through the watchful, benevolence of yourself.


I like all of that, provided that all that hard work is done by not-me.

1) Yes you and your family can spend the weekend in a real live tipi where you can experience the warm comforting heat of a RMH
2) Come to the land of permaculture, get away from all the hustle and bustle of the big city
3) Ever pooped in a outhouse, wanna get in touch with how your ancestors use to do their business
4) Ever killed, dressed, butchered, cooked your own pig, cow, squirrel, bear, elk, porcupine, swan, duck, moose, deer, chicken, wanna? we can show you how for a price.
5) Ever run a backhoe
6) Wanna chop down a tree
7) Tour guides available for your personal trip to the back country to see lots of trees etc
Ever seen two pigs doing it?
9) Help with this years harvest. Bring the kids to dig up the potatoes and carrots and put them up for the winter.


Yes! This!
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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We have ants and other residents here, many of whom have expressed interest in managing the tipi for glamping. The challenge for the ants is finding enough time between building a shelter, homesteading, plus doing bounty work, to be able to take on even one small piece of things like the tipi. This part might have been obvious or previously explained, though I thought it was worth a revisit.

As Paul has been describing, and as Lorance is imagining, too, this resort manager role could be much, much larger than just managing the tipi glamping. We could make lists and lists. The tipi is just the easiest to explain at first. Paul has been leaving a lot of the details open and trying to stay with the bigger picture, though I think some specifics about the tipi, might help paint a picture of how some things could work.

For example, we have another, better tipi, not currently being used, that could either replace the decaying canvas over the current one, or be a second tipi. Or we could (maybe) set up a budget to buy a new canvas. We have discussed how long the tipi canvas might last, how often it might need replacing, and how to lengthen it's life. Mostly, we don't want to invest in new canvas, or even set up the better canvas, unless it's being cared for.

We've talked about the tipi fee being split 50-50 between Paul and the manager. Just one initial thought.

We have so-so bedding and accouterments to make a comfy tipi experience, though I wouldn't call it glamping...yet. Ideally, someone would have an eye for quality. You know the real stuff - high quality cotton, wool, natural wood - with artistic decorating touches that are also above par (you know, not junky, not hokey, but genuinely beautiful). And be able to have the space wonderfully set up, with little touches like flowers, or water bottles, fresh fruit, or a little book about native wildflowers; that kind of thing.

IMHO, THIS eye for design, quality, customer service - ALL the pesky details! - is what is crucial to the glamping or resort experience. This will make whatever experience is offered sing for everyone involved. It's glorious, rave reviews that will help spread the word for us out in the interwebs - far beyond permies.

There could be construction involved - building a shower and pooper just for the tipi(s). Or finishing one of the cabins at base camp. We just need someone to manage the work at the very least, if not do the work themselves, for both the improvements as well as the ongoing management (you know, repairs and maintenance, clean up, laundry, etc.).

We have materials, land, tipi, cabins, bedding, some available labor onsite, some other local labor connections, some willingness to invest, auditorium with banquet tables, projector, speakers, etc. Just not enough time to manage it properly! As another example of a resource, when we didn't have anyone living here who wanted to clean, I found some local folks who will come and clean. They do a great job. It took me trying out more than 5 different people to find them. Though even scheduling cleaners to come out becomes a challenge at times. And then, even the best self-starters still need instruction, guidance, training on peculiar details, etc.

That was more of a rambling response instead of the specific replies to things, though I hope it helps illustrate a bit more about things here. I'm a detail and caretaking maven, so Paul is thinking I'd be the main wheaton labs contact for helping the resort manager do their thing.

So did this ramble help or raise more questions?

 
lorance romero
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Jocelyn, wow this sounds like a lot of work ... nevermind.

Just kidding! It sounds like there is a tremendous amount of resources and support available.
The devil is in the details.

 
Jocelyn Campbell
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lorance romero wrote:Jocelyn, wow this sounds like a lot of work ... nevermind.

Just kidding! It sounds like there is a tremendous amount of resources and support available.
The devil is in the details.



Ha! I tend to over-explain. Oy vey.

Here's hoping I didn't make it sound too awful, and I'm glad I conveyed a bit about the resources here.

It's the devil in the details part (aptly put!) that we've learned some have an eye for, and some don't.
 
paul wheaton
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Chadwick Holmes
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Can anyone that currently does give me your description of what "live here" looks and feels like?

I've lived at a few camps and they all have their things and feels, I call it the site DNA, or what makes that place that place....

And if I'm not to hard to deal with here, maybe a picture of said tipi and surroundings, or link to one.....

Thanks a million!
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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Chadwick Holmes wrote:Can anyone that currently does give me your description of what "live here" looks and feels like?

I've lived at a few camps and they all have their things and feels, I call it the site DNA, or what makes that place that place....

And if I'm not to hard to deal with here, maybe a picture of said tipi and surroundings, or link to one.....

Thanks a million!


Well, there are threads for that! A lot, actually. Note that some of these threads have multiple pages, so sometimes you need to click next or a page number at the top or bottom of the page.

the wheaton labs forum, is where most of these threads are located - scroll through the list! multiple pages here, too
the RMH in a tipi thread has loads of pictures, see the last page (if I recall correctly) for where we "staged" the tipi with our thrift store things; it could be tricked out far more luxuriously than this.

We have two pieces of property, base camp and the laboratory.

Base camp has a double-wide mobile home house, a garage/office, a large shop/auditorium, plus two cabins, a berm shed with multiple bays, a shower building with hot water heated by a compost pile, and a pooper named "willow bank." There are pictures of almost all of these things in the wheaton labs forum.

The laboratory is over 200 acres of what was private timber land. It is off-grid, and where we have ant village, two wofatis, a third wofati that was started, the start of a lemon tree site, the RMH tipi, plus two solar carts (the voltswagon and the leviathan). There are threads for most of these as well.

Plus, Paul has over 300 podcasts describing things here and his vision for wheaton labs and the community, etc. I'm in some of the podcasts with him, and many podcasts have visitors, instructors and residents in them as well.

I could have included more than a dozen more links in my reply...but did Paul say we need help? We really want/need people who are willing to search this stuff out for themselves and make it sing.

 
Chadwick Holmes
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Thank you very much Jocelyn I appreciate your overactive go drive! You seem like a rockstar!

I was thinking an ant or someone might talk to me about the feel part more than anything, but it sounds like you guys are too busy for that type of thing.

I was just thinking of leaving PA and this camp that is going strong, and do some getting things off the ground, so I was curious what type of lifestyle my wife and son would have around the lab. We homeschool so whatever they deal with they deal with all day! It's a big decision to move a family out west just to do the camp ranger thing at a place that you agree with more, that's the biggest thing, I already live the camp ranger life just no permaculture here so.....I know I can succeed at the camp part, that's my passion, I just wanted to see if we would fit into your "family" structure there, that's all.

I'll kick around at the links you provided, thanks!

 
Jocelyn Campbell
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For the most part, the ants don't have wifi on the lab, so they post when they can here at base camp.

Part of Paul's reason for getting this position filled, as well as the other two, is to fix a big portion what we see as the main drawbacks to being here. I'd love for Paul, the ants or other residents to chime in on whether they agree or disagree with my following opinions.

I think that Paul being the loud, swearing guy who loves to laugh and call "neener, neener" whenever possible isn't really much of a problem here. He's actually surprisingly patient, tolerant and kind, while at the same time not backing down with what he wants. He's slightly more "on" in podcasts and giving a presentation, though he is who he is without any pretense at home and elsewhere. (Paul did have a "breakfast with spiderman" phase, where he was negative, a lot, and over-saturated folks with talking about his frustrations, but that has mostly been cured.)

So it might be surprising (or not - I suppose I am biased!) that I think the largest drawbacks are other than Paul:
1. lack of water on the lab - we're working on it
2. lack of good land manager or other leadership (besides Paul and myself) - hence the 3 jobs Paul has posted!
3. lack of higher skilled people here and/or better learning opportunities here - hence the 3 jobs!
4. not enough (yet) finished, shiny-gorgeous examples of Paul's experiments (in all realms: earthworks, food systems, natural building and energy systems) - we have some and the others are getting there!! - hence the 3 jobs!

less of a factor, though still huge to some young people
5. not close enough to the city and night-life - can't fix this, you either like it or you don't
6. not enough other young people here (not enough women) - in theory, the three jobs would also bring in more people (all ages) to wheaton labs

So, I'm thinking about all the people and why they've departed and I think this list just about covers it. Included in #4 is that some of our options for housing aren't complete or need reworking, so that is quite a limit as well.

Paul and I are the facilitators of wheaton labs. As facilitators, our involvement is not as direct as some might imagine. We're not out there doing the work as much as managing what gets done and what resources are available to do it with. I think the folks here right now appreciate and get this, and are supportive and understanding of what we do; as we are (try to be) supportive and understanding of what they are doing.

We've had a VERY few icky people here that others didn't like very much. Those people did not last - they were usually asked to leave. We've had some personality conflicts and Paul very patiently discussed all sorts of options and came up with some mitigations to help sort these things out. This stuff will happen with people, in ANY community, and yet IMHO, we've had very little drama in this space.

We've had a few "square pegs in round holes" - roles or positions that weren't quite a fit due to design flaws by Paul and myself, or just not a good fit for other reasons, so we are still looking for things that work better. We learned that Paul is better in smaller doses with the community and vice verse for both of us, too.

It's amazing how much easier folks are to be around when things are fitting, working and moving forward in good ways. Our shift to the ant village and the bounty system has encouraged this and while the forward velocity still isn't quite what Paul would like, we are troubleshooting how best to solve it.

In general, we have people here who are psyched to build a better world and they are doing epic shit.


 
Jocelyn Campbell
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I created some flyers to send with some friends going to a conference. Here in both picture and .pdf format are flyers about the resort manager position.

2016-open-positions-resort-manager.jpg
[Thumbnail for 2016-open-positions-resort-manager.jpg]
2016 open position - resort manager (image file)
Filename: 2016-open-positions-resort-manager.pdf
Description: 2016 open position - resort manager (Adobe Acrobat or .pdf format file)
File size: 158 Kbytes
 
Dan Mangan
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Too bad I'm manifesting a project right now. Id come work for you Paul.
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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The tipi canvas was just replaced (thanks Kai!). We had two tipis, two tipi canvases, though the one that's been in use at the RMH tipi site finally began deteriorated (rotting) beyond repair. So our nicer canvas went on in its place to keep the RMH protected this winter.

We do expect the tipi canvas will need replacing, though it will, of course, last longer with proper care and use. Running the RMH regularly in the moister, colder seasons will help keep it dry and less prone to rot.

Just sayin' we certainly do still need someone who wants to facilitate this kind of care!
 
Sharla Kew
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Hey everybody! There's a new housing thread that is super relevant to anyone looking to come out to the land - http://www.permies.com/t/52736/labs/State-Lodging#428013
 
Casie Becker
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I'm already thinking how to budget a trip and stay in your tipi. I would view the opportunity to see so many permaculture methods in active and practical use as an investment in my own education. Consider the fact that I have little 'disposable' income or time to put towards such things. Seems to me that Paul has recognized a real viable revenue stream for his community that meets a real demand in the wider world.
 
Jocelyn Campbell
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Casie Becker wrote:I'm already thinking how to budget a trip and stay in your tipi. I would view the opportunity to see so many permaculture methods in active and practical use as an investment in my own education. Consider the fact that I have little 'disposable' income or time to put towards such things. Seems to me that Paul has recognized a real viable revenue stream for his community that meets a real demand in the wider world.


Yay! We're glad you and others might think so. We already have folks talking about coming out this winter, and early spring, so the tipi might be taken rather soon. In the State of the Lodging thread that Sharla created, we talked about first-come, first-served, though it's not exactly/not always that straight-forward. For example, we might kick someone out of the tipi just for some resort manager activities, a rental or maintenance.

 
A Walton
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I've researched this kind of stuff extensively as I'm trying to get something similar going on my land. It seems to me that you are aiming way too high with your desired revenue out of one teepee. Why not start renting out the first one, starting at $80 as you say, and figure out how to add value to the experience so that you can get that number up to say $125 or $150? Then build a couple more and make it a goal to fill them all.

I've talked with a guy that has an AirBNB rental on an organic farm that has become pretty famous - and he's not getting anywhere near $250 for his flagship structure. What they did do was, after building the first rental, they turned another outbuilding into a little cabin and rented that out. With nearly a 100% occupancy rate on both structures, they used the cashflow to bankroll the purchase of an adjacent property and have started renting out several more units.

It's a good idea to add the workshop experience for added revenue potential, but that makes more sense with a small group rather than one person that you hope could pay a very high fee. Success in a venture like this will be based on occupancy rates, and finding that sweet spot on price where people can and will pay, and your venture will profit and thrive.

 
A Walton
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paul wheaton wrote:
There is a place near here that rents out tents for $1600 per day. It includes food and experiences like fishing and horseback riding.


I've actually stayed at this place many years ago. I didn't pay anywhere near $1,600 and it should be pointed out that other than the fact you are sleeping in a fancy tent (in a luxurious bed), this is an experience will all modern conveniences. Hot showers and gourmet meals in established buildings, etc. I like the idea of what you are trying to do, but this really isn't similar to the example you cited.
 
paul wheaton
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I started:

http://www.permies.com/t/52814/labs/rent-tipi-cabin-wofati-wheaton


A little math ... fill the spaces for 2/3 of the year:

tipi: $6000
abbey: $12,000
0.8: $12,000
love shack: $4500
red cabin: $6000
bunk room: $15,000
vip room: $15,000

total gross: $70,500.

Fancy them up, add some marketing: $100,000.

Work with the natural builders to build more at, say, $40,000 for one year and then bump that up to $140,000.

Add more workshops and more marketing: $200,000.

Bump it up more and more .... rent out any empty structures on ant village, or with deep roots people ...






 
Cheryl Gallagher
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Have you hired someone for this job?
 
paul wheaton
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Cheryl Gallagher wrote:Have you hired someone for this job?


Nope.

And I'm not sure if "hired" is the right word. Looking more for somebody that would be up for trying this. Preferably somebody agile - somebody that can arrange to stay in what is currently available. Maybe somebody with an excellent eye for decor - that could improve the spots that are currently unused.

I think such a person would quickly work out deals with ants and deep roots folks for a variety of things. And deals with natural builders. And deals with people that can teach workshops at a variety of levels.

I think somebody that is "hired" would probably ask twenty times a day "what do you want me to do now?" Whereas somebody that "fills this role" would show up, take a look at what we have, and make it glorious.
 
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