• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

need a full time permaculture educator to get PEP1 off the ground: great pay  RSS feed

 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would be willing to pay somebody to get this program started. In the beginning, this would be a relatively free thing - so I would be paying somebody to provide a free service (for a while). But I think that in time it would be something that people would pay for. Some people would pay to have their pep1 status verified online and some people would pay to build their pep1 skills with an instructor right there. Maybe even with a collection of students.

I think that if the pep1 stuff were fleshed out right now and made solid, that there could be at least a dozen students here for march 15 through march 15. And each student would pay something like $4000 to be guided through PEP1 for that first year. I think the second year could have more students and it could be $8000 per student.

I think such a teacher could also teach a collection of workshops through the year in combination with the PEP1 program. This could add up to $40,000 per year.

I think some online validation could be done to get the pump primed. If there are 40 online students pursuing PEP1 certification, they might each pay something like $1000 per year for a total of $40,000 per year.

So, for the first year there is about $6000 that I will put in to get it rolling. Plus about $48,000 for in-person students. Plus about $40,000 in a collection of workshops. Thus ending up at $96,000 for the first year - and that's just the things I can think of so far.

I would not guarantee the pay other than the $6000 to get this program started. Everything else would be where you are in business for yourself and, together, we would both bring you loads of business.

This would have to be somebody that has listened to all of the podcasts, watched most of my videos and read most of my articles. This would have to be somebody with experience teaching.

So I am putting this out there in the hopes that this will happen.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would like somebody to propose something to me to get PEP1 off the ground. I would like to get a proposal for the documentation side of it to be professionally fleshed out. Coupled with a proposal to move here and begin teaching.

I would even be open to subsidizing the program for the first year.

But the most important thing: I need somebody that is a professional. Somebody that has done most of the things listed in PEP1. Somebody that could, in the first year, generate a big part of the artifacts of PEP1, thus demonstrating the skill. A professional teacher in every sense.

I like the idea that I can arrange professional pay for a professional teacher.
 
Mike Leo
Posts: 110
10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here because of the daily-ish.

I've read this, and read your PEP1 initial thoughts post. I am someone who has listened to 90% + of the podcasts (everything free) but I am also not going to suggest that I can repeat all of the little things that make you so.... Paul I guess that means I'm due to relisten from the beginning. This is also isn't meant to be a (rather poor) attempt at a brief resume, just letting you know that I have paid some attention before my question.

If I read correctly PEP1 would represent 1000 skills demonstrated by 1000 projects/tasks ?

Are all 1000 of these compiled in your mind at this time? I was unable to find a post with a list though I can see how that may have been intentional too.

What would a PEP1 be able to accomplish having achieved the certification? What would a PEP* MASTER be able to do?
I'm picturing this in terms of a statement like, "After earning your PEP1 we could drop you in the woods with a few supplies and come back in a year to find a a thriving site covered in beautiful systems", or "A PEP* MASTER recently dropped into the article circle with nothing but a small metal knife and a pair of boots has walked back to town now, 6 months later, to solicit new colonists for his (fully established) artic-circle-permaculture community and courses."
 
Jason Machin
Posts: 85
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
this is meant as a rudimentary resume
-After this summer I will have 3 years teaching experience under my belt
-I plan to have all of your podcasts listened to by then
-I've been haphazardly studying permaculture for 5 years now
-I've written two permaculture articles
-Made a summary for one of your podcasts
-And spent last summer practising my pie making skills
-Cert 2 in horticulture
-Cert 2 in Metal fabrication
-basic carpentry skills
-interest in blacksmithing

I just looked over your PEP1 briefly. It seems like more of list of "bragging rights" than a curriculum.
I'd run set two weeks (or however long is required) courses. Then have them themed, like...
"fire and cooking"
-rocket stove
-pizza oven
-solar oven (?)
-mass heater
-hot water systems
Have all the theory indoors. Class makes some designs. Have the class construct.
It'd also be great for experimenting.

I would like to get a proposal for the documentation side of it to be professionally fleshed out.

Do you mean a fully fleshed out curriculum?

...Be happy to come out after this school year ends. I'm on a contract.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If I read correctly PEP1 would represent 1000 skills demonstrated by 1000 projects/tasks ?


Well, I don't think it is 1000, but it might be. If I had to guess, it would be closer to about 500. Maybe it will be closer to 1000 three years from now.


Are all 1000 of these compiled in your mind at this time?


No.


I was unable to find a post with a list though I can see how that may have been intentional too.


We have a list of lists. And a forum dedicated to all the lists: http://www.permies.com/forums/f-178/


What would a PEP1 be able to accomplish having achieved the certification? What would a PEP* MASTER be able to do?


Not the angle I was thinking of.

My thought line is more along the lines of PEP1 says "here are things I have done, and those things have been verified." And that is of value to other people.


After earning your PEP1 we could drop you in the woods with a few supplies and come back in a year to find a a thriving site covered in beautiful systems


That is one possibility.

I suppose a person could think about going to college or getting PEP1 certified. One could ask a college graduate to be dropped in a field and produce a crop. But I think a person gets a college degree so that they might be seen as having more value than job applicants that don't have a degree.

If career is the mission, then I suppose PEP1 could get a land manager position. Or a position to lead workshops, or do natural building or build permaculture systems.

But I am thinking that the list is much longer. I think there are thousands of properties out there that geezers are trying to gift to somebody before they die. But they don't want just any dipshit. I think that most of them will find value in somebody that is PEP1 certified. I think people have property and want advice from .... not just any dipshit, but PEP1 certification might be the very qualification they want.

I am already getting requests for speakers, consultants, land mangers, etc. But they want somebody that will do a good job - not just some dipshit.

A PDC certificate says "I spent two weeks hearing about permaculture." That really isn't enough for most people that are hiring (or donating land). They want more. They want grit. They want somebody with experience.

I also meet a lot of people that want to build experience. And they don't want to dilly dally. They want some serious grit and they want to be TESTED. They want build the skills so they will be excellent at that test.

I think that over the next ten years there will be more than a thousand people that want to be PEP1 certified and there will be more than 10,000 people that need a PEP1 certified person for one thing or another.



 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
After this summer I will have 3 years teaching experience under my belt


So .... summer ended a few days ago. So, now? One year from now?


It seems like more of list of "bragging rights" than a curriculum.


And when one has a degree from a university, I suppose that is also "bragging rights"?

I suppose it can be considered bragging rights. But, more importantly, verifiable proof that you got shit done. As opposed to people that talk about stuff, but have no real experience.


I'd run set two weeks (or however long is required) courses. Then have them themed, like...
"fire and cooking"
-rocket stove
-pizza oven
-solar oven (?)
-mass heater
-hot water systems
Have all the theory indoors. Class makes some designs. Have the class construct.
It'd also be great for experimenting.


I think it would be wise to set a schedule for the next three years. But I don't think each thing would be two weeks at a time. Some things might be two days and other things might be a month.

And then there are things where during the first year, people build experience helping with the bigger projects and building their own smaller projects. And in the second year they build the bigger things while assisting on giant things and in the third year, they run point on the biggest stuff.

Maybe a morning is spent on horticulture and an afternoon on green woodworking.


 
Mike Leo
Posts: 110
10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Love the answer Paul, thank you.

Twist: don't do it at the lab at all?

Create the curriculum, and the list. Offer the online course for :: PRICE:: and then tell people to go get it done. Heck, since people might be more interested in the skill teaching than the whole package or the certification offering them a la carte would probably create great revenue too. Each skill course goes up when it is ready, hopefully funding the next filming and presentation of the next skill.

When they have completed a sufficiency (perhaps 1000 of 1200 or 800 of 1000) they can apply, and schedule, and pay for, a PEP1 certification visit. This may at first represent relatively few on sight visits by yourself to get a few others out there accredited but it would not take long I suspect before you had a core number of PEP1 certified folks. I'm picturing something slightly less attainable than say an online PDC and something more attainable than Sepp's (where you must labor under his eye for hours and hours and hours).

I suspect this model would also allow you to drop PEP1 certs immediately on a number of folks out there already doing the right stuff. I'm thinking of some of the established operations out there (Ben Falk, Mark Shepherd, jack spirko) or the like. And if those 3 weren't ready immediately I suspect that it would be a short list of additional skills they'd have to show to earn it. Get them on board and you've already established 3 additional potential certifiers too.

Just spit balling here, based on my understanding of your idea. I'm also thinking these skills will be a lot more "create and run a cashflow neutral - cashflow positive orchard (or livestock, or etc.) operation" and a lot less "Make a Proenneke style mallet/cabin/barn" but you're the boss, boss
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think that whoever leads the PEP1 program will not have all of these skills. But I do expect them to have a LOT of these skills. And, in fact, through the first year of the program, I do expect the person running point to come up with the artifacts required for PEP1 certification and demonstrate the whole taking pictures and posting to permies stuff.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mike Leo wrote:Twist: don't do it at the lab at all?


I think that a big part of that is possible.

I think the detailed documentation could be done remotely. I would be willing to pay for that.

And I think all sorts of people could teach at other sites, or teach online. I would not be willing to pay for that, but I think a person could make some coin doing that.

I would be willing to pay to get a PEP1 program started here. Complete with a full time teacher.



When they have completed a sufficiency (perhaps 1000 of 1200 or 800 of 1000) they can apply, and schedule, and pay for, a PEP1 certification visit.


I think that most (or all) of the PEP1 stuff can be done online. A person carves five mallets from green wood and posts a pic to permies. It is verified. Then when they have all 24(?) tasks verifies for a white belt in green woodworking, then somebody verifies that and the belt is awarded. It is then displayed on their signature line. Eventually they have a bunch of belts that all add up to PEP1. Done.

I like the idea that someday this can be set up so that zero money changes hands. All free.

But I also feel like some people will need a place to go to see the artifacts of these tasks already completed, and somebody who will guide them through doing it themselves. And that they would rather do this than go to college.

 
Jason Machin
Posts: 85
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sorry Paul. That's one year from now. I'm teaching in vietnam. The school year has already started here.

Well if you're planning on making it a 3 year course then a list of bragging rights is most definitely in order.
So, this is meant as "school" for the potato village?

To be honest this all seems like a metric crap tonne of teaching for one person.
 
Jason Machin
Posts: 85
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Care to talk about it over a few moosages?
I tried sending you one. But something went wrong
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason Machin wrote:Care to talk about it over a few moosages?
I tried sending you one. But something went wrong


I think I have purple moosages turned off. I prefer email.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason Machin wrote:
To be honest this all seems like a metric crap tonne of teaching for one person.


How do you eat a whale? One bite at a time.

Suppose there are 12 students. Then one morning you show the students how to carve a mallet from green wood. So off you go into the woods to get your wood. And then everybody gets started. And by the end of one hour, everybody has a butt ugly mallet. Then you tell them to make two more and leave.

An hour later, you start into planting gardens ....

I think four small things can be knocked out each 8-hour day.

By the end of five days, that's 20 items.

I like the idea of the pace. If they don't want to get certified, they don't have to. I think that is one of the most important parts of PEP1: to get certified, they have to be strongly self-propelled. Some students will drive themselves to complete the whole thing in a year. Others will coast for five or six years.



 
Roberta Wilkinson
Posts: 175
Location: Washington Timber Country
18
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Totally independent of this conversation, a friend just posted the following to Facebook:

"Anybody need a talented naturalist without a boat, an outstanding educator without a teaching cert, an accurate and energetic researcher without independent funding, or a blacksmith and leather worker born into the wrong century?

How about just a 35yo waiter?"

So... should I send him your way? ;P
 
Cassie Langstraat
steward
Posts: 3933
Location: Zone 9b
301
bee books food preservation fungi
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Roberta Wilkinson wrote:Totally independent of this conversation, a friend just posted the following to Facebook:

"Anybody need a talented naturalist without a boat, an outstanding educator without a teaching cert, an accurate and energetic researcher without independent funding, or a blacksmith and leather worker born into the wrong century?

How about just a 35yo waiter?"

So... should I send him your way? ;P


Yeah! See if he's interested.
 
Mike Oconnell
Posts: 7
Location: Door County WI
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A teacher might not be fully what you need at this point - I suggest starting with an instructional designer (someone that knows how to teach but has additional skills in organizing information and the tools/mediums used for learning today). You're touching on a few great concepts that are being addressed in corporate learning and education settings with supporting technologies right now - nano-coaching (short interactions with a coach/mentor that already knows how to do the shit you are trying to learn - like evaluating a work product relative to the skill - for example, sampling and providing feedback on a mead you brewed, or the recipe you plan to use, as part of going through a brewing learning path), user-generated content (allow the people going through the experience come up with new resources like a link to a great article or video), curated content (have the expert on a particular topic differentiate really good content from crap, but balance that with user ratings of content to let the better stuff rise to the top and the other stuff to sink down), a way to provide a self-selected learning path (organizing the content - you are hitting on competencies/activities that build skills in those competencies), certification (by having some organization/structure behind this it might mean something to someone else), and even the most recent hot topic in my industry right now that I am not completely sure the best use of, badging (as you go through these different experiences you earn badges as an indication of your proficiency level in certain skills - rolling up different skills into some form of indication of mastery of a certain topic).

Flipping to the technology side - there is an emerging standard that underpins what I was talking about above known as TinCan API or Experience API (xAPI). It is a repository of statements such as <actor> <verb> <subject> like "Paul listened to Podcast 152". This allows the tracking and reporting under some of the concepts above like badging and tracking the results of the coaching...like did the coach pass the student on the task - or did they provide feedback and recommend they try again. I once worked with someone who has put this standard into a tool that they are selling to corporations, and from what I have seen of the tool it could give you a better idea of what I am talking about above. Real small company, doing some smart things - Cognitive Advisors and the tool is called Trek Learning Experience Manager - http://www.cognitiveadvisors.com/trek
 
Jocelyn Campbell
steward
Posts: 4117
Location: Missoula, MT
382
books food preservation forest garden hugelkultur toxin-ectomy
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I created some flyers to send with some friends going to a conference. Here in both picture and .pdf format are flyers about the permaculture educator position.
2016-open-positions-educator.jpg
[Thumbnail for 2016-open-positions-educator.jpg]
2016 open position - permaculture educator (image file)
Filename: 2016-open-positions-educator.pdf
Description: 2016 open position - permaculture educator (Adobe Acrobat or .pdf format file)
File size: 481 Kbytes
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am being asked about this position, and thought I should include a few links:

In this thread I try to explain how I need somebody that can get a lot of work done without a lot of guidance from me.

In this thread I explore the difference between a level 2 person and a level 7 person. Naturally, for this position I would prefer a level 7 person, but would consider a level 2 person with plans on growing into a level 7 person.

 
Jason Machin
Posts: 85
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
paul wheaton wrote:I am being asked about this position, and thought I should include a few links:

In this thread I try to explain how I need somebody that can get a lot of work done without a lot of guidance from me.

In this thread I explore the difference between a level 2 person and a level 7 person. Naturally, for this position I would prefer a level 7 person, but would consider a level 2 person with plans on growing into a level 7 person.



After reading through your posts here's what I'm gathering.

You need to delegate. You need to delegate hard.
You need people that can do work for you.
You don't want to pay for that work.
You also don't want to train anyone because you don't have the time.
What you want is experts to come in and work for you for free
...free in the sense that it doesn't cost you anything because they've set up their own business.

What happens when those experts need grunts?

From what I can tell you need a full time HR trainer. Someone that can teach classes on all the simple things.
An on call trainer. Someone with the gift of teaching.

paul: shit i need X by next month. that'll take me 300 units
trainer: hows that work exactly?
paul: spends 10 units educating trainer
train: 20 units training self
trainer: 100 units teaching class of ten
students: give 30 units each
trainer: 30 units supervising
paul: 1 unit overseeing

It's no 1:100. but 1:30 isn't so bad. not to mention there are now 10 more people that can do X and the trainer can teach that without any inputs.
...am I making sense? lol I hope I'm making sense.
 
paul wheaton
master steward
Posts: 21974
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
bee chicken hugelkultur trees wofati woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think that a person could go into business for themselves doing their own thing. They have a certain reach and a certain income.

I would like to think that such a person very much wishes to do something that smells a lot like the PEP1 thing. I pay a bit and provide a bit of shelter and this and that to get things started. I like to think that their reach and income would be five times better working in a collaboration with me.

It seems pretty simple. Especially if somebody likes to teach a lot of this stuff, but does not have land or a network.
 
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!