Bryant RedHawk wrote:Sounds like you re-crowned the road Andrew, yes that is one of the down falls of road building, not putting in a proper crown.
there are parameters for any road and the crown functions to move water to the sides before it has a chance to degrade the surface by seepage.
Ditches also are part of water management for roads, if they are not placed correctly, they can actually degrade the road as the water erodes the side of the road bed.
Roads are not simple, unless you want deep ruts, narrowing travel ways pot holes and wash outs, you need to engineer the road for optimal survival from both traffic and water.
Our driveway was in fair shape when we bought our land but it had sat unused for seven years. When we started using it the road started degrading rapidly.
Our main issues are: lack of an up hill side ditch to move rain water away from and down the hill, collapse of the road track and the subsequent formation of a high crown.
These factors made it necessary for me to rebuild the road completely for longevity and this means putting in a wide ditch, resetting the road crown, adjusting the slope towards the new ditch and the final steps will be laying the gravel and setting the surface.
The gravel will need to be put down in three layers, large, medium and the topping of SP2P for a smoother drive surface. Each layer will need to be compressed by rolling so it becomes stable before the next layer can be laid down.
Cristo Balete wrote:Since your French drain can't drain anywhere else, is there a way to move it even 18 inches? If where it drains is level, road fabric or even weed block fabric and large crushed rock would help.
Cristo Balete wrote: You don't want it slowing down while in the driveway section, even if it's seeping after a heavy rain.
Brett Hammond wrote:So in this case, the key is ELEVATION, and KNITTED 2-INCH stone. If you build up your driveway 12 inches higher than surrounding soil, with a gradual slope on the sides of the driveway down to ground level (or ditch) so you don't have mini landslides, it doesn't matter if the driveway is saturated at the bottom or not. Because the top 12 inches will drain after rain and provide a solid base (on top of the saturated mush subsoil) that will stay solid, provided you keep the water level always 12 inches below the top of your driveway. Don't allow the water to build up along side your driveway or everything will sink. This is why a culvert under your driveway, from the ditch you dig between your hill and driveway, to the other side of your driveway, is important: to keep the water level ALWAYS 12 inches lower than the top of your driveway. AT ALL TIMES, ON ALL SIDES.
Make your driveway at least 13 feet wide so your vehicles are not putting pressure on the sides, and slop sides 40 degrees or less, from the drive down to the ground (or ditch) along side. The wider the drive, and shallower the slope, the more it will stand up to weather. One advantage to making all slopes gradual, other than lasting much longer, is that it is easier to mow any grass that grows there.
#4 - KNITTED STONES. Stones smaller than 2 inches will not last very long in a driveway. A few big stones will not last very long and will eventually sink. I put down some bricks in old pot holes and were sunk into the mud in less than a year. 12 inch chunks of concrete sunk here. If you dump a pile of 2 inch or bigger stones into mud, then will eventually sink.
The key is allowing 2-inch stone to KNIT in large numbers, and create a matt to drive on. If you put 4 inches (or more) of 2-inch stone on your whole circle drive, on top of a 12 inch base of packed dirt, the stones will knit together before sinking (provided you put the stone on dry dirt base). Never dump any size stone on top of mud unless it is an emergency and you have deep pockets, because it will sink. When the stones have time to knit together (on a dry base), there is a lot of friction between a stone and its neighbor on all sides. This side friction prevents the stone from sinking, and spreads the pressure from your vehicle out over a very large footprint. The double layer (4 inches of 2 inch stone) has a second layer that will spread that weight over an even larger area, and the 12 inches of packed dirt, even more area. So by the time the weight of your vehicle reaches the mushy sublayer 12 inches down (actually 16 inches if you count the 4 inch of stone), it is dispersed so much that nothing sinks. If you can afford more than 4 inches, then do 6 inches of stone to be extra safe. I did 4 inches of 2 inch stone over a dry base of dirt, and it works fine. My driveway fill dirt, is mostly sand, which everyone told me would not pack well and my vehicle would sink into it when it rained. But with the knitted stone on top, it is fine.
Hans Quistorff wrote:A maintenance trick is to take an old bed frame and weight it with some logs. Fasten a chain to the ends so that it tows at about a 30 degree angle. Drive slowly as close to the edge as you can so the the surface is swept to the center of the road. Then drive back on the other side. This works best when the road is damp [not wet or dusty] and there is time before the next storm to pack it by driving the same as when you were grading it to pack it properly. other people will drive down the center and pack the ruts. If you personally always drive with with the drivers side wheel in the center of the road you will be surprised at how much longer it will last between maintenance.
I like the 45 degree drains under the road. What is often done with driveways on slope here is to build a 2x4 'U' channel and put it across the road at an angle to keep water from running down the ruts and washing them deeper.
You may be able to use some of your rocky slope as a base in the puddles and then the fines the side of the road that is higher than necessary. My driveway across a one foot flood plain which is clay was established 100 years ago as a CCC work project with a ditch on both sides. It had to be widened to bring the hose in so they cleared the vegetation on the field side and added subsoil to move the ditch over 5 feet. That made a grassy slop to one side just like yours. The road is even better now because the drainage from the floodplain is farther from the main road bed. There were a few ruts and low spots from the construction traffic but also a pile of drain stone left over so I was able to repair using the method outlined above.
Hans Quistorff wrote:The error I see here in the PNW is people filling potholes with gravel and no fines. The water in the hole keeps the gravel lubricated so each time it is driven over it splashes to the side. Then you have the same hole but deeper with a circle of gravel around it. To repair a pothole add stones and gravel to the level of the road then take sand and clay from the side of the road, so that you maintain the crown, and tamp it inaround the stone and gravel until all of the water is driven out of the hole. make sure the water that comes out drains to the side of the road.