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persimmon jam made from fully ripe persimmons came out chalky and astringent -- why?

 
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I made a test batch of persimmmon jam. It  drys out my mouth  like chalk. Any hints ? suggestions?
 
                          
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Location: Bozeman, MT
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Charles, the persimmon astringency is due to tannin. Before making any jam with them, you need to make sure that they are fully ripe, squishy soft. The tannin is significantly reduced when they are extremely soft and then not astringent. I have made persimmon jam from persimmons in Texas and was coached by the neighbor who gave them to us. She grew up with them and had been making jam for years.
 
charles c. johnson
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i check them all .. very soft
 
pollinator
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you picked the fruit too early. it has to feel soft, squishy and what some would call "rotten" feeling. when its ready persimmons are a jelly all by themselves. and super sweet. we dont harvest our persimmons for jelly or baking until the first hard frost. or if you harvest them early you can make japanese hoshigaki.
 
charles c. johnson
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trust me all of them were ripe i picked them off the ground then i let them cure for a week in a paper bag .
I'm sure they were ready on account that i ate several .
 
Jordan Lowery
pollinator
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im just saying, if it made your mouth dry like chalk, they weren't ready. thats the only way i know them to do that. they should be sweet as sugar. we dont harvest our persimmons until late november early december here. right now there on the tree changing color to orange which most would think is "ripe" but its far from it.
 
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  seems to me that when persimmon pulp is cooked it undergoes a chemical change which causes the tannins to

be more evident. i was working on making persimmon fruit leather in my oven and the result was dry tasting

  fruit leather, even though i started with very ripe persimmons. with my next batch i plan on simply dehydrating

the puree in a clean, cool spot, since i believe the cooking process does change the flavour of the

  fruit.  i am interested in hearing of others' cooking experiences with one of my favorite fruits. deliciousness!!!
 
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Location: Davie, Fl
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charles johnson "carbonout" wrote:
i check them all .. very soft



Not soft enough. Honestly, you are looking for a water balloon consistency with the astringent ones.
 
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I made wild persimmon jam this year and tried to be very careful as well, using only the softest, mushiest fruit. One batch turned out fine, but a think there was a less than ideal fruit in the second batch. It had that chalky quality. I am convinced now, that to make good persimmon jam, I will need to taste a micro piece of each fruit before using it. One less than fully ripe fruit can mess up the whole batch. And sometimes, even what seems like a fully ripe and softened fruit can still have that chalky quality. I did notice that with the fruit I picked.



 
                                      
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Location: Eastern Shore of Virginia
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What recipe are you guys using?  Do you remove the skin and seeds before heating?  When I make persimmon wine I squeeze the fruit through a paint strainer, leaving the skin and seeds behind.  What a mess! 
 
Lizabeth Davis
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I used a persimmon and orange recipe (includes orange juice and finely grated orange peel). The basic flavor, particularly in the good batch, was very good. I cut out the seeds by hand, then used a "Roma" food mill to separate the skins from the flesh.

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Kitchen___Canning_and_Preserving___Food_Mills___Roma__Food_Mill___070801?Args=
 
                                      
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Location: Eastern Shore of Virginia
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Goodness, that will be much faster!  Thank you for the pointer.
 
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Kelson Water wrote:  seems to me that when persimmon pulp is cooked it undergoes a chemical change which causes the tannins to be more evident.



This matches my experience.  In many cases, a cooking process that applies heat to your persimmons seems to reverse the chemical change that happens when the persimmon ripens.  Whatever chemistry binds up the astringency gets reversed when the ripe persimmon flesh is cooked; they lose sweetness and become more astringent again.

However, this is not universal; the chemistry is more complex than I understand.  For example, when you make persimmon bread (basically, use any banana bread recipe and substitute persimmon pulp for the bananas, yum) the baking does not mess with the persimmon flavor or sweetness.  

Jordan Lowery wrote:im just saying, if it made your mouth dry like chalk, they weren't ready. thats the only way i know them to do that.



I want to point out that with wild American persimmons, every tree (or, perhaps, every little grove) is genetically unique.  Flavor varies wildly from tree to tree.  There do exist a small minority of persimmon trees that make fruit that never loses its astringency even when fully ripe and fallen from the tree.
 
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