the need for singing and dancing

I'd like to explore the role of song and dance in permaculture.  Permaculture started out as sustainable agriculture but grew to encompass society as a whole, from establishing a sense of community to local currencies.  Among our human needs, food is certainly a biggie but as I see it permaculture has expanded to embrace other needs as well.  This is where song and dance come in.  To my knowledge, all indiginous cultures incorporate them into their lives.  This leads me to believe that singing and dancing are also needs, perhaps spiritual ones.  Before the petroleum age really got underway, singing and dancing were part of people's lives.  Now this is relegated to highly skilled (or at least highly paid) performance artists and the rest of us have become passive spectators.  As an aside, I was reading to my son a book about the Wright brothers and was surprised to find that often after a hard day of flying their airplane/glider at Kitty Hawk they got together at night with other men and sang, played the banjo and harmonica.  So perhaps part of our descent into a postpetroleum age would be to bring back singing and dancing into everyday life, something that everyone does, whether they're good at it or not.  Any thoughts?

I came to a similar conclusion after a neighbor brought me (and as much of the neighborhood as he could convince) to folk dance lessons.

Among other benefits, dance seems to be a great way to develop what Robert Pirsig called "gumption."

Based on what little I know of anthropology, it seems very likely that rhythmic activity in general is an instinctive way for humans to establish group identity and territory. It seems to be a general pattern, from military songs and national anthems, to cars with high-powered subwoofers and protest chants. I think the drive to sing and dance together in a way that says "this place is ours" is as instinctive as the vocalizations of gibbons.

Songs also help people to work together, as evidenced by sea chanteys, gandy dancing, etc.

The dogs love it when I sing and dance in the garden..................the wife says it's good we have a high fence.

I think when people sing and dance together, it builds a sense of community.  An example of that would be church congregations singing. 
I got a sense of this once at a party put on by my sons' pipe and drum band.  They're in a performance band but at this party we did some Scottish folk dancing.  It was fun, a mix of people of varying skill levels, but what struck me was that before this, I considered the people at the party to be acquaintances.  After that, when I saw them again, they were more like friends and I felt much more familiar with them.

I would have to agree.  Its a great way to meet people.  We need to seek out more opportunies to play music, sing and dance together.

I have often observed over the years that both my vegitation & livestock are happier, healthier & produce more abundantly when I spend time singing & playing music in their presence. In my absence they seem to get depressed & listless. Isnt music in the garden part of the basis of sucess with the "Sonic Bloom" processes? I highly recomend all forms of singing & dancing as a form of soul food both for yourself & your surroundings!

My wife is a Filipina... They don't get together without singing, be it with guitar or karaoke. Same with most Asian cultures. I don't think it odd so much as our songless culture is odd. My Yf sings and plays guitar at the local hospital for those with dementia. She has a soft voice and sings happy tunes. They love it, and for the rest of the day their symptoms abate some. I play with the church music team, I can share my heart in ways words just don't work.

Commercial music seems to have fallen into vocal (or instrumental) gymnastics and marketing. Some of the musicians rely so heavily on electronic boxes to stay on key that pitch shifting a note has become a part of their vocal sound. No wonder old music is so popular.

Anyway, I think TV and radio (and you tube?) have stolen something very valuable from us in doing music together as a family and community. Dance as well, I tend not to speak of it as much, because I don't do much   But I like to watch. Children are some of the best dancers. Story telling is another mostly lost art, I try reading to my kids, but run out of breath a lot (leads to yawning) because I have never really learned to breath right.

Great topic! (although I see it hasn't generated much response). We love singing and don't have much time to sing since we started farming-- so we are (hopefully) going to have a Sing and Farm internship at our place this spring. I am thinking that ideally we will learn ancient planting harvesting and milking songs-- and then get to sing them while we are planting, harvesting, and milking. I remember when i was in India I overheard someone singing a milking song (well I think it was a milking song)-- and it seemed so magical and so extraordinary-- . How come we so rarely sing while we work? Or maybe some people do? anyway, check out our website catehillorchard for more info.

In the hills and valleys of the Ozarks before everyone had a tv and a computer to entertain them there were house parties were people got together and played music, sang, and danced. I have been to a few of those years ago and it was real fun. Wish i could get that to happen again.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." Thorin Oakenshield.

It's great for the spirit and the body.

"Shake what your mama gave you!!"

I do sing while I farm! And while I cook, and clean, walk, drive & grocery shop.. (I turn the volume down but still get funny looks)
I think its good for our health to sing and dance & everyone should be able to participate without fear or inhibition.

"If only the best birds sang the woods would be silent" -unknown

When our kids were teens we found a local contra dancing get together. We threw $5-10 into a basket at the door and brought a plate of cookies to share at the break. There was always a folk band playing wonderful instruments and the dances were fun and usually not too complicated and the regulars helped us get to where we were supposed to be. It was great fun and one of our boys spent most of his courting time with his now wife of 15 years at many of these neighborhood gatherings.

I resonate with the posts in this thread. Singing (and dancing) together is magic!

I feel revived and connected when singing with others.  Whether it is singing together as a family, folk song sing-a-longs at my autoharp group, traditional American shape note singing, songs at protest gatherings, or congregational singing at church, all of those settings and music types when done together in a group, well it is just the best!

Here in Western Massachusetts there is also a lively contra dance scene (after a pandemic lull) and pub sings! As others have said in this thread, doing these activities together makes you feel like you belong to a community, which is, I believe, a basic human need.

Betsy Krogh

Love this thread!

Ecstatic dance has helped me over the years find community and also connect to deeper wisdom & healing.

Dancing is truly medicine for the soul 😄

I always miss it when I go long periods of time without it.

There are ecstatic dance events & groups all over the world every week if anyone is interested.

You can find a local group here…

https://ecstaticdance.org/dances

🕺

I agree, music is a need. I think some of us feel that need more than others in modern western societies.

Growing up in a musical family, I feel like it's just part of me. I was singing before I was talking, so music has always been in my life. Not much of a dancer, but when I do musical theater I've noticed there is something akin to magic when a number comes together with all of us singing and dancing and getting it right. There's a kind of bonding that may not last even as far as the cast party, but is very real when you feel it.

Going thoughtful...

There are rhythms in nature, and music mimics that, setting pleasant sounds to a specific chosen rhythm. This is a very sound-based world. Bird song, mating calls, animals growling, even silence at times communicates in nature.  Have you ever known the weather was going to turn from a change in the sound of the wind, or the birds going silent?

Spoken language is sounds. Written language carries sounds--the scratching of a pen, the click of keys on a typewriter or computer keyboard, the hammer and chisel used to carve on a tablet. Hands signing word, phrases, and letters make sounds, though very soft ones. And we all recognize the noises other people make in agreement or disagreement or annoyance (especially with a teenager in the house).

Sound is communication. Music, with or without lyrics, is communication of a thought or an idea, or an emotion. Communication is a primary drive in nature. If only we could hear more clearly what the earth is trying to tell us. If we could understand each other better that would help. I often find songs that are better at saying what I mean than I am. My words tend to get garbled when I speak, especially on an important topic. I knew that was part of why I write in general. Now I wonder if it's why I write songs...when the other sounds aren't getting the point across, maybe the music will. Or maybe people are more likely to listen if you can state your case in 3 1/2 minutes or less, and with a good beat.