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Post by pinhead on Feb 27, 2013 at 2:10pm
Attached is a spreadsheet which calculates the dimensions of a Peterberg Batch box according to the desired Heat Riser diameter: Peterburg Batch Box Dimensions Calculator.xlsx (18.26 KB) Peterberg Rocket Stove Calculations
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| | Heat Riser Dimensions | Inches
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| Millimeters
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| | Diameter | 3
| 4
| 5
| 6
| 7
| 8
| 9
| 10
| 75
| 100
| 130
| 150
| 180
| 200
| 230
| 250
| Length
| 21-10/16
| 28-13/16
| 36
| 43-3/16
| 50-6/16
| 57 10/16
| 64-13/16
| 72
| 540
| 720
| 936
| 1080
| 1296
| 1440
| 1656
| 1800
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| Base
| 2-3/16
| 2-14/16
| 3-10/16
| 4-5/16
| 5-1/16
| 5-12/16
| 6-8/16
| 7-3/16
| 54
| 72
| 94
| 108
| 130
| 144
| 166
| 180
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| Box Dimensions
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| Width
| 4-5/16
| 5-12/16
| 7-3/16
| 8-10/16
| 10-1/16
| 11-8/16
| 12-15/16
| 14-6/16
| 108
| 144
| 187
| 216
| 259
| 288
| 331
| 360
| Height
| 6-8/16
| 8-10/16
| 10-13/16
| 12-15/16
| 15-2/16
| 17-4/16
| 19-7/16
| 21-10/16
| 162
| 216
| 281
| 324
| 389
| 432
| 497
| 540
| Depth
| 8-10/16
| 11-8/16
| 14-6/16
| 17-4/16
| 20-3/16
| 20-3/16
| 25-15/16
| 28-13/16
| 216
| 288
| 374
| 432
| 518
| 576
| 662
| 720
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| Port Dimensions
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| Width
| 1-1/16
| 1-7/16
| 1-13/16
| 2-3/16
| 2-8/16
| 2-14/16
| 3-4/16
| 3-10/16
| 27
| 36
| 47
| 54
| 65
| 72
| 83
| 90
| Height
| 4-12/16
| 6-5/16
| 7-15/16
| 9-8/16
| 11-1/16
| 12-11/16
| 14-4/16
| 15-13/16
| 119
| 158
| 206
| 238
| 285
| 317
| 364
| 396
| Depth
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 2
| 50
| 50
| 50
| 50
| 50
| 50
| 50
| 50
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| P-Channel
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| Width
| 1-1/16
| 1-7/16
| 1-13/16
| 2-3/16
| 2-8/16
| 2-14/16
| 3-4/16
| 3-10/16
| 27
| 36
| 47
| 54
| 65
| 72
| 83
| 90
| Height
| 5/16
| 7/16
| 9/16
| 10/16
| 12/16
| 14/16
| 1
| 1 1/16
| 8
| 11
| 14
| 16
| 20
| 22
| 25
| 27
| Overhang
| 5/16
| 7/16
| 9/16
| 10/16
| 12/16
| 14/16
| 1
| 1 1/16
| 8
| 11
| 14
| 16
| 20
| 22
| 25
| 27
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EDIT: Here are the equations. EDIT: Now with 3 through 10 inches and 75 through 250 mm. Given: Heat riser DIAMETER = DBase B = D*.72 Riser Height = 10*B Box Dimensions Width = B*2 Height = B*3 Depth = B*4 Port Dimensions Width = B/2 Height = B*2.2 P-Channel Dimensions Width W = B/2 Height (thickness) = ((3.14(D/2)^2)*.05/W |
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Post by pinhead on Feb 27, 2013 at 2:12pm
And if you don't have Excel or don't want to open a spreadsheet, here's a screenshot...  And here's a cross-section of the stove:  |
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Post by petect on Feb 28, 2013 at 7:59am
Very Nice! It seems to work just fine.
It downloads as Read Only - rename it when you save the file and it work.
For those who don't have excel, post your numbers here, and hopefully someone can run them and post the results.
Pete
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Post by sierramog on Mar 2, 2013 at 10:25pm
I was able to open file using OpenOffice.org, free download.
Thanks!
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Post by smarty on Mar 18, 2013 at 12:56pm
Thanks for the screen shot, the mac spreadsheet thing didn't work, so the table is very handy.
Where it says "calculated base" what does this refer to? It seems obviously related to the height whatever it is.
Also the ratio between CSA and height decreases as you go up in system size according to a constant pattern. So the ratio between height and CSA of the 4" system is pretty much double that of the ratio between height and CSA of the 8" system, and three times the ratio of the 12" system.
What the formula underlying this - sorry maths was never my strong point - there is some pattern to it is there not?
cheers.
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Post by pinhead on Mar 18, 2013 at 1:06pm
The "calculated base" is simply a "constant" in the equations used to calculate the dimensions. I'll see if I can find Peterberg's post explaining how the numbers are calculated.
EDIT: Here are the equations.
Given: Heat riser DIAMETER = D
Base B = D*.72
Riser Height = 10*B
Box Dimensions
Width = B*2
Height = B*3
Depth = B*4
Port Dimensions
Width = B/2
Height = B*2.2
P-Channel Dimensions
Width W = B/2
Height (thickness) = ((3.14(D/2)^2)*.05/W
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Post by bernardbon on May 28, 2013 at 1:14am
Hello,
I can not find the formula to calculate the dimenssion primary air.
Could anyone help me?
Bernard,
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Post by peterberg on May 28, 2013 at 2:40am
Primary air is 20% of heat riser cross sectional area.
(3.14*(D/2)^2)*20%.
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Post by bernardbon on May 28, 2013 at 3:01am
Thanks
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Post by Donkey on Aug 26, 2013 at 11:15pm
The "calculated base" is simply a "constant" in the equations used to calculate the dimensions. I'll see if I can find Peterberg's post explaining how the numbers are calculated. I haven't seen the answer to this yet. How is the "calculated Base" arrived at? What does it represent? |
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Post by peterberg on Aug 27, 2013 at 6:36am
The original calculation was done by Jim (jham) from Southern Virginia. This is the thread where he explained his calculations. He elaborated about it by PM, but I'd think it's alright to publish this here: Oct 12, 2012 at 6:11pm Hi Peterberg, I wanted to get back to you sooner about the way I attempted to derive the measurements of my stove from your sketchup example but I have been busy at work and home. So....here I go. I took your measurements and saw that by using bricks in the sketchup model you had made every linear measurement a ratio of a basic unit. Because the clearest ratio you talked about was the 3 to 2 ratio of the firebox opening, I took the firebox opening and divided the height by 3 to use as the basic unit. So 1 unit = 108mm. I then just converted all the linear measurements of your model into multiples of the basic unit. The only measurements that were not a simple multiple of the basic unit was the width and height of the burn tunnel. I just rounded those values (burn tunnel W and H) to simple multiples of the basic unit (108mm) and came up with W=54 (.5 units), H=216mm (2 units). To figure out all the values for my stove I started with the diameter of the heat riser pipe (100mm) I wanted to use, and got the c.s.a of the heat riser 7850mm2. I then multiplied that times 4 for the c.s.a of the firebox and got 31400mm2. To get my basic unit of linear measure for my stove I then took the formula for the c.s.a of the firebox opening and plugged in the numbers I knew: 3 x unknown single unit x 2 x unknown single unit=31400 (the c.s.a of firebox). I then solved the equation to derive the single unit: 6 x unknown unit squared=31400 unknown unit squared=31400/6 unknown unit squared=5233 unknown unit=square root of 5233 or 72mm I took that basic unit and plugged it in to unit measurements I had figured out from your model. As an example, the heat riser height on your model was 11 units high (108 mm x 11=1188mm) so mine was (72mm x 11=792mm). I apologize if I am not doing a very good job of explaining myself, math is definitely not my native language I think that this method of scaling worked well because the stove works well. I have sealed and insulated the heat riser more carefully since the last time I posted and the stove is working better than ever. I am going to start a thread today asking for some design help with a planned application. Thank you again for all your data you have shared. Jim Later on, I've done some recalculations myself and arrived at this conclusion: It is entirely possible to culculate the base dimension by taking 72.36% of the diameter of the riser. So, define the riser diameter, preferably the same as the exhaust pipe, and do this simple math. |
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Post by Donkey on Aug 27, 2013 at 10:39am
I find it interesting that the port (referencing the .XL file) has a SMALLER CSA than system size.
For a 6 inch system, the system CSA is 28.26 inches and the port is 20.52 inches.
Is this correct?
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Post by satamax on Aug 27, 2013 at 11:42am
I find it interesting that the port (referencing the .XL file) has a SMALLER CSA than system size. For a 6 inch system, the system CSA is 28.26 inches and the port is 20.52 inches. Is this correct? Donkey, iirc, in the thread peter said to me 65 to 70% csa for the port. |
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Post by Donkey on Aug 27, 2013 at 12:55pm
Seems so..
Constants (in ANY formula) tend to point at a law of some kind (physical, mathematical, etc.)
It'd help to know what the 72.36% means.
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Post by peterberg on Aug 27, 2013 at 1:13pm
Actually, in the model Jim calculated the port is slightly larger than 72% of system size. Minus the overhang of the p-channel it will come down to the 70% target.
The reason why the port is narrower than system size: it promotes a higher air velocity in the port itself and slows down immediately behind it. This do promote a very effective turbulence without adding more air into the fire. Supplying more air as a method to induce turbulence is being used by everyone who like to promote better combustion, with the obvious disadvantage of cooling the fire and enlarging the amount of excess air.
I've tried smaller and wider ports as well, results were not as good. So yes, the constant could be 72.36% but the question of why isn't answered.
Tantalizing, don't you think?
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