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raw paleo, raw meat, anyone?  RSS feed

 
Lana Weldon
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I've started eating raw meat, and for me, feels  so much easier on the stomach that cooked meat/animal products. My challenge is to find good sources of grass-fed, wild, or otherwise "naturally fed" animals, not based on grains or soy... Suppose I need to start raising my own food?
Anyone out there doing this already?
 
Joseph Lofthouse
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I enjoy raw meat. Fish is the easiest for me to obtain and trust.

~Joseph,
embracing my animal nature
 
David Livingston
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Not for me , firstly I would be afraid of botulism or other similar nasty secondly since I tend to eat the cheaper cuts of meat these are less tender and I suspect take some chewing if uncooked

David
 
Angelika Maier
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I think (even I would not eat it) it is good to eat some raw meat but in total we should eat cooked food too or even mainly. It becomes much easier diegested. You are overstraining your digestion with too much raw food. And there is no human culture other than modern hipsters who eat raw only. Even my chicken prefer cooked food.
 
Wj Carroll
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I don't doo much raw meat, but I will enjoy a nice carpaccio with plenty of olive oil and garlic.  Steak tartare is also very nice, but I haven't had that since I was a kid.  Raw fish or a ceviche is very good - I particularly like it with the citrus and salt.  Were I to wish to enjoy more raw meat, I think hunting and trapping would be a must.  Simply put, you cannot trust most store bought meat.  The cooking recommendations are there to kill bacteria harmful.... most of which should not be there in the first place.  Like with eating raw eggs - as I often do in home made mayo - you will have to be very careful and avoid mass produced meat.  I would recommend beaver as a great source of rich red, very clean red meat - tastes much like grass fed beef.  Eating a bit of raw deer heart is a hunter's right of passage.  that said though, I prefer cured meats if I don't want it cooked.  Good luck with everything and put safety as a top priority!
 
Cody DeBaun
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My dog certainly love raw meat! There's a company in my area that connects small organic farmers and ranchers to consumers that skirts all the health code red tape by marketing their grass fed and organic meat to pets.

Then again, my dogs get tested for worms and parasites regularly...
 
Wj Carroll
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Cody DeBaun wrote:My dog certainly love raw meat! There's a company in my area that connects small organic farmers and ranchers to consumers that skirts all the health code red tape by marketing their grass fed and organic meat to pets.

Then again, my dogs get tested for worms and parasites regularly...


That is a good way to get raw milk, too.
 
Mike Turner
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My main problem with eating raw meat is the potential for picking up tapeworm (beef, pork, fish) and trichinosis (pork). There's also a roundworm you can pick up in raw ocean fish (sushi).  Unless you can slice your meat thin to detect the tapeworm bladders or to spot the roundworms in fish or you can guarantee that your hogs haven't eaten a rat or other source for the trichina worm,  there's always a potential that you can acquire a parasite when eating raw meat.  Some of these parasites are killed by freezing the meat for several weeks.
 
Chris Kott
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Most good sushi fish are flash frozen where they are caught and remain that way until they reach the final customer, which usually takes longer than the fish parasites to die. But yes, even though salmon sashimi is one of my favourite dishes, I do find myself checking things out.

But I love raw meat. I like my steaks blue if they're cooked, and steak tartare is one of my favourite beef dishes. I am careful to the point of paranoia about undercooking chicken and pork, though.

-CK
 
Wj Carroll
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Two meats I would highly recommend re beaver and groundhog.  Both are vegetarians and very clean animals.  I have never encountered one with worms or anything but a clean liver.... not to say there aren't any, but I have yet to find one.  Both are excellent meats.
 
Karen Donnachaidh
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If meats are "cooked" in lemon juice are they considered cooked or raw? I've only had tuna prepared this way.
 
Chris Kott
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"Cooking" in acids is, I believe, how most ceviche are prepared. The acids do indeed alter the raw meat, but it isn't exactly the same. Both methods were originally used to make foods safer to eat for longer periods, but if there were, say, a parasite or bacteria that was killed by fire but not by the acids, it could pose problems.

-CK
 
Emil Spoerri
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I have been eating raw meat for 6 or 7 years. I find raw meat to be much more digestible and create much less digestive strain than cooked foods. Raw meat is in fact so easy to digest, that it does not even require chewing, it can be simply cut up and swallowed like pills, it digests just fine. If you practice, you can even build up your carnivorous instinct to bolt down large pieces that barely fit in your mouth, like a hungry dog.

Beef tapeworm is rare or non existent in USA. Beef tapeworm, at least the kind that infects humans, requires human manure (containing tapeworms) to be left in fields where cows eat, to complete their species to species life cycle. As far as I know you also couldn't be infected as long as the meat is handled cleanly even if the cow had the tapeworms. Parasites while being much more common than most believe are also much rarer to be present in raw meat than is commonly believed. Most of them that are present can't survive your digestive system as they are all predate on species they have evolved to infect. This is why alternating species on a pasture reduces parasite load as for instance a sheep parasite will die if consumed by a horse. I believe you are more likely to be infected by a parasite from eating a salad than you are a steak. Liver flukes are widespread and their eggs are in the slime trails of snails.

I would say raw meat has vastly improved the quality of my life. There was one time 6 years ago when I was eating raw meat that I had obtained a vast degree of health and happiness than I have experienced before or since. My farming life has been very difficult and I have not been able to replicate the conditions of that year but that is my dream in life. Hopefully next year I'm going to be doing everything right.

I posted a thread a little while after I started doing that, 6 years ago, here it is https://permies.com/t/9301/kitchen/Raw-diet

Also for those who are interested, we have a forum where we discuss this topic as the sole focus of the forum. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/


I apologize to Paul and everyone for not being active on the forum for many years. I have had some hard times. Hopefully I can be more active and have more to share in the near future.

Lately I have been planting tropical fruit trees on my acre in South West Florida. I have 6 mamey, many mangoes and coconuts, among others. I harvested my first custard apple this year. It was delicious! tasted like a giant and nearly perfect strawberry, with bit of creaminess.
 
Karen Donnachaidh
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Emil, welcome back! Great post. I gave you an apple. You can eat it raw.­čśë
 
Wj Carroll
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Chris Kott wrote:"Cooking" in acids is, I believe, how most ceviche are prepared. The acids do indeed alter the raw meat, but it isn't exactly the same. Both methods were originally used to make foods safer to eat for longer periods, but if there were, say, a parasite or bacteria that was killed by fire but not by the acids, it could pose problems.

-CK


Acids firm the meat and give it a more "cooked" texture.  Acids, salt and garlic all help kill or reduce bacteria.  You can also pickle or cure meats to preserve them.  Personally, I love the flavors of browned foods (Maillard reaction) so a quick, very hot sear on the outside of good red meat, still essentially raw on the inside, is perfect. 
 
Xisca Nicolas
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Angelika Maier wrote:...but in total we should eat cooked food too or even mainly. It becomes much easier diegested. You are overstraining your digestion with too much raw food.

I have found the reverse to be true! Raw food digest better, except when you mix them. Then they seem less easy to digest, and we would not suspect that the cooked food is responsible for this! My digestion is also very quiet with raw food.
I still eat cooked food thought, when cooking allows me to eat what cannot be eaten raw, or if I gain something. I have home-made tomato sauce, with no peel no seed, and cooked green beans for example.

I love raw beef, and I eat it ...in fruit salad! Actually, my tartar beef is in orange juice + papaya and whatever other fruit, even some mango or strawberries. I also mix with raw veggies. I make a sort of soup with finely grated roots and cucumbers. I use a japanese kitchen tool, a ceramic grater. I add an apple too. Then I cut very thinly an onion, and greeeeens:
- dandelion, parsley, llanten (plantago), chicoree, papalo, any cabage, chickweed etc. some artichoke leave and olive leave too.
- raw egg, though I heat the white, just enough to make it white without turning like rubber
- hemp or pumpkin seeds, avocado, olives...
- A lot of apple vinegar and some olive oil

I often soak this in mason jars, so that the acids soften the celllulosis.
I make different ones, different tastes and mixes...

About the question of raising animals, I do guinea pigs, and I am going to try it raw, though soaked in acids. I will still cook the skin for gelatine soup.
ATM I slightly cook fish, without boiling it, very low fire.

I am not attracted by raw chicken, and I do not eat pork anyway.
 
Wes Hunter
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To those who claim raw meat is easier to digest than cooked meat, how do you know?  I'd assume that statement is based on how you feel afterwards, but is that an accurate measure of digestibility?  Could there not be some other reason for this perception?

My understanding was that cooked foods are (as a rule, at least) easier to digest, which, so the argument goes, is why we humans have such large brains--our bodies are/were able to spend less energy toward digesting (raw) food, thus freeing up energy for more complex bodily operations.

Please note (because you can't hear my inflection in typed words), I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I'm just curious.
 
Xisca Nicolas
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Wes Hunter wrote:To those who claim raw meat is easier to digest than cooked meat, how do you know?  I'd assume that statement is based on how you feel afterwards, but is that an accurate measure of digestibility?  Could there not be some other reason for this perception? ... I'm just curious.

I do not think cooked food is the problem, but that WE who do not digest it well have a problem! I think the same for gluten that I cannot stand... (and it is more than digestion)
Of course I feel my belly at peace when I eat according to what suits me, but there is more.
- I have steady energy all day.
- I am not sleepy after eating
- I can eat less and less meals and in a smaller window, leaving time for my digestive system to rest.

Wes Hunter wrote:My understanding was that cooked foods are (as a rule, at least) easier to digest, which, so the argument goes, is why we humans have such large brains--our bodies are/were able to spend less energy toward digesting (raw) food, thus freeing up energy for more complex bodily operations.

The advantages of cooked food are elsewhere I think...
It is not about less energy for digesting but less time to eat! Also having more food at hand, because you can keep it longer, use hard parts, and make some foods edible, like starch. Then humans could also go and live in places where they have to keep dry food like grains. Also it can be nice to eat warm when you live mainly outside. What's about potatoes and beans? They are food, and good food, only if you can cook.

Here is what my logic and fantasy can imagine... It has been known that bison liver was eaten raw. When you know it contains vitamine c, weel they had no lab but good instinct! Also rich in sugar! Yes, glycogene.... Fresh muscles also have glycogene! Ok, let's say that the 1st day you eat raw, and eat as much as possible. It is easier to hunt a lot when animals are there. They do not hang around to provide you with food every day! So now, flies are coming.... Other animals, even wasps as you now when eating outside. So you make a fire and start to smoke some meat, and on the same fire, you roast some meat, and kill bacterias. You still eat the inside raw, same as us in a barbecue! Then you reach bones, and you are not going to scrape all this eaily, unless you find out that you can boil all this. And if you eat some raw veggies, then you put peels and tough parts in ...what has become known as soup!

Yes, old time soups were made with leftovers, bones and peels, all that stayed after making other meals with the best parts.

Now let's say you grow radishes in your garden, and you enjoy them ....raw, with a piece of butter and salt. But you made too much, and then they get hollow, a bit fibrous and strong. Well, cook them as turnips! And don't you eat your young turnips raw? If you don't, try! EATING RAW IS A LUXURY!

Now grains, cereals... You can dry and keep them, and as starch, they are not really edible raw. Except if you make beer or if you sprout them. How much a job is it to safely eat sprouted grains? Most people don't, and just cook them! Just easier... which does not mean this is the best for our digestive tract...

A last example is WOK cooking: how to safely eat raw! Only the outside is cooked, I would say sterilized in coconut oil, in places of the world were molds get at your food even before flies. I repeat, eating raw is a well looked after luxury! And we should profit of it, and cook ONLY when absolutely necessary.
 
Chris Kott
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Hi Wes. Xisca might have a point or two there, though I think a distinction must be made here between raw plant material and raw meat. I think that in some cases, as she mentioned, foods must be cooked to soften, to break down foods into more easily digestible components, and yes, to ensure safety. But animal flesh is, from what I understand, more bioavailable because of its biochemical similarity to our own construction. These components are already close to the composition of our own. As we know, the delicious Maillard reaction also produces carcinogens, unless that has been disproven, so not all cooking makes food safer; rather, it may make less than fresh or hygienically handled food safer.

So perhaps there is cause to think, or at least examine the science behind, fresh meat being healthier and easier to digest. And to put it another way, if a nice, thick filet mignon, seared to perfection on the outside and blue bloody rare on the inside is easier to break down mechanically (with my teeth), and I give myself sore jaw muscles trying to chew the well-done piece that someone forgot on the pan, why would the chewy, dessicated, burnt one be easier for me to digest? As Xisca mentioned, we cook tubers and dried beans to make them softer and easier to eat. So why would making meat tougher logically lead to the same result?

-CK
 
Xisca Nicolas
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CK, you made me laugh! Do you in English call a too well cooked piece of meat a "shoe sole"? Watching after meat, fish and egg just mean you have to dedicate more time to cooking, which is part of the modern problem for cooking every food in its best appropriate way.

Also forgot to mention that my mother taught me to cook all fish without ever boiling the water. I am not from Polynesia, but they would "cook" fish with no heat. Ceviche comes from the same Pacific coasts.... Not only lemon, I also use orange juice.

Try to make boiled eggs without boiling them, and you will eat the most delicious white, not a rubber piece, and you can even get it hard by leaving it in the hot water, but the outside of the yolk will NEVER get greenish anymore!

I considere any change of color as a change in chemistry, far before any protein is burnt.
 
Wes Hunter
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Chris, my notions of the digestive benefits of cooking came from a Michael Pollan book (I think it was titled "Cooked").  I may be misremembering, but I thought he applied the benefits to all foods, not just vegetation.

The idea, if I recall, is that cooking helps break down cell walls, and breaks down more cell walls than just our teeth and stomach acids can, thus making available to our bodies more of the food's nutrition.

As for cooking meat and making it tougher, I don't know.  A blackened, overcooked, tough filet isn't the result of cooking, I'd say, but of bad cooking.  One could braise a filet until it was well done and falling apart; it's not the well-doneness that makes it tough, but how it got there.  Similarly, one can take a tough (raw) muscle and slow cook it to beautiful tenderness, no?  Whether or not that makes it more "digestible," I don't know, but it seems reasonable.

On another note, has anyone tried venison carpaccio?  Deer season is just around the corner.
 
Duke Yavguy
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Chuck Tartare is my fav!
Have never had any issue with raw.
 
C├ęcile Stelzer Johnson
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Cody DeBaun wrote:My dog certainly love raw meat! There's a company in my area that connects small organic farmers and ranchers to consumers that skirts all the health code red tape by marketing their grass fed and organic meat to pets.

Then again, my dogs get tested for worms and parasites regularly...


Isn't it something when you have to go to a pet food store to get the food the way you want it? Perhaps it is because we humans love our pets that we demand for them a quality that we do not demand for ourselves.
Cooking has always been a way to "make safe" certain foods we could no longer trust in their raw state. The same applies to pickling. It is only when we needed to save our food for later that we came up with these cooking methods. and think of all the fossil fuels we burn to "save"our food. Think of all the energy wasted.
I prefer sushi and steak tartar and request that any steak be as blue as is legal in a restaurant. The worst case of stomach ache I ever endured was from a hot sausage I bought on the street. It was cooked.
When I ask for ground beef for a steak tartar, I demand that the meat be ground in front of me, telling them that it will become steak tartar. If their meat is fresh, they will not object. If they do, that would be a sign to go elsewhere. I do not feel as confident with chicken meat: Raw chicken has zero appeal to me.
I have found that eating a steak tartar leaves me more satisfied, that I do not need to eat as much and do not have any bloating. I feel more energized as well. It is as if my stomach tells me SOONER that I am full.
Perhaps it is also a cultural thing: compared to Europeans, Americans seem to have a love for all food that is totally sterile. The French enjoy a wide variety of cheeses that are fermented, for example, while Americans seem to prefer cooked, processed cheese, again with this almost irrational fear of bacteria. Maybe it is because of my ancestry, but I feel safer if my food is not sterile. Have you looked at bread? Some will not be attacked by bugs. It just dries out but other animals will not touch it. Do they know something we don't?
It is not normal for food to be sterile and although I'm no scientist it stands to reason that sterile is harder to break down by our bodies than not sterile: What is the process undergone by food in our bellies? Our digestive tract produces enzymes that break down foods. Enzymes cannot break down foods that are not susceptible of being broken down by enzymes.
It is also good for anyone's system to meet with a little adversity once in a while: It makes our systems more resilient, stronger, and it builds up our antibodies.
 
Chris Kott
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Of course, Wes. I was just pointing out that food can be made less easy to break down mechanically in some cases, which argues for a mixed approach. And as to tougher cuts of meat, isn't that what a carpaccio or tartare are for?

-CK
 
Stacy Witscher
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Chris, I've never heard of beef tartare being made from anything but tenderloin. Carpaccio can be a little more forgiving with fat, but raw silverskin sounds awful. But I've always had these things in high end restaurants.

I am very particular about toughness, so eating only the tenderloin from a cow sounds very wasteful. But to each his/her own.

 
Sandra Peake
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  I've just been exposed to the interesting theory of an all meat (with fat) diet. Among its' adherents are the raw meat foodies. Basically, almost w/o exception, they prefer beef. After puzzling over that one, a lightbulb clicked on. Beef cattle are herbivores, full stop. Mad cow disease was their response to being forced to eat animal waste that contained prions. Cows eating varied pastures for their entire lifespan never acquired mad cow.
Pork and chicken are defined as omnivores, which means animal protein can comprise significant parts of their diet. Although certain ads tout 100% grain fed and vegetarian meats, it's a fact those species are not normally vegetarian. And those are two meats I much prefer to be fully cooked. As an inlander, I never ate much ocean fish, and precious little freshwater fish, but seeing the beautiful art produced by a master sushi chef makes me regret not trying raw fish. However, there's a reason for  sushi to be made from fish frozen for a specified period of time.
Certainly any animal that eats a 100% organic diet is edible, but in our area, deer and bear hunters have to freeze their meats for 30 days minimum for safety's sake. I 'm not sure if it is mandated by law, but it's a general practice. No one eats marmot AFAIK, nor groundhogs (woodchucks) back in Ontario, Canada. Nor have I encountered Crocodile Dundee types who snack on venomous snakes, though rattlers are found locally.
On my foray into a predominantly meat diet, seared raw beef is on my to-try list. If you never hear from me again...!
 
Meghan Merker
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I am in SW Montana and raise organic, completely pastured, never any grain Navajo Churro sheep. I ship (I ship sheep...try saying that three times fast...)....so let me know if you're having a hard time finding truly organic and grass fed meat in your area.
Meghan
 
Chris Kott
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You're probably right, Stacy. I have made both, though, from other cuts. I have also had what was called beef tartare, and definitely not from the tenderloin, but it was sliced paper thin. What is the difference between tartare and carpaccio? I have obviously been the subject of culinary counterfitting, though it was still delicious.

-CK
 
Stacy Witscher
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Chris, typically tartare is hand chopped, little cubes, like 1/4 inch cubes. A classic tartare is beef with a little oil, lemon juice, minced shallots and herbs. We varied our tartare seasonally at one of the restaurants that I worked for. Tartare needs to be mixed immediately prior to eating or the lemon juice will start to "cook" the beef, so I had to mix and taste every order that went out, good stuff. Carpaccio is sliced paper thin - it's Italian in origin, often topped with similar ingredients to tartare.

I have Lebanese cousins who ate raw lamb kibbeh. They really enjoyed it, but one did get a parasite.
 
C├ęcile Stelzer Johnson
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Stacy Witscher wrote:Chris, typically tartare is hand chopped, little cubes, like 1/4 inch cubes. A classic tartare is beef with a little oil, lemon juice, minced shallots and herbs. We varied our tartare seasonally at one of the restaurants that I worked for. Tartare needs to be mixed immediately prior to eating or the lemon juice will start to "cook" the beef, so I had to mix and taste every order that went out, good stuff. Carpaccio is sliced paper thin - it's Italian in origin, often topped with similar ingredients to tartare.

I have Lebanese cousins who ate raw lamb kibbeh. They really enjoyed it, but one did get a parasite.


oil and lemon juice, yes, but also Tabasco sauce, also a little stale bread / bread crumbs as an extender. The French will also sometimes add a raw egg. Eat about the size of a hamburger and you are FULL. With the egg, it is called a "steak tartare Madame".
 
Maureen Atsali
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I am kind of piggybacking on what Sandra said.  As a diebetic I have been steadily trying to lower my carb in take.  And while I haven't had the courage or the means to try it, my research has lead me into "zero carb" diets, which are essentially total carnivores.  And almost universally every testimonial I read stated that the longer they stayed on the diet, the less cooked meat appealed to them, and the more raw meat (beef, mostly) they consumed.  Personally the only raw meats I have consumed were cerviche and sushi.  Maybe someday it will seem more appealing.
 
Xisca Nicolas
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Emil Spoerri wrote:
I posted a thread a little while after I started doing that, 6 years ago, here it is https://permies.com/t/9301/kitchen/Raw-diet

Also for those who are interested, we have a forum where we discuss this topic as the sole focus of the forum. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/

I have registered to the forum, it is not very active....
 
Matt Walker
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"Zero carb", or a carnivore way of eating, has had a profound effect on my overall health.  I have eaten only red meat for close to a year now, and as Maureen says, as time goes on it's more raw red meat than cooked.  I still sear steaks and burgers, but they are pretty rare.  Just thought I'd throw in some info.  My opinion now is that eating plants is generally harmful to humans, but most can deal, although health suffers.  Meat only is complete nutrition with none of the harmful compounds, fiber, and sugars found in plants.  It's worth a try, I promise.
 
Xisca Nicolas
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Matt Walker wrote:"Zero carb", or a carnivore way of eating, has had a profound effect on my overall health.  I have eaten only red meat for close to a year now, and as Maureen says, as time goes on it's more raw red meat than cooked.  I still sear steaks and burgers, but they are pretty rare.  Just thought I'd throw in some info.  My opinion now is that eating plants is generally harmful to humans, but most can deal, although health suffers.  Meat only is complete nutrition with none of the harmful compounds, fiber, and sugars found in plants.  It's worth a try, I promise.

Just amazing, I am surrounded by vegans, raw vegans and fructarians, and some "only" vegetarians!
Humans can adapt a lot...
As i am investigating "typing", well there are different types of metabolisms, and some people might need carbs, fruits etc, and plant food have to be prepared the right way to be edible.
Meat is easier.
And I think we have a natural taste for fruits, and I love them with meat.
Thanks for sharing, I really up my meat intake, though difficult to get good quality one in quantities, but today I had my 1st RAW GUINEA PIG! Well, in orange juice.

Can you also have raw chicken? It is the less appealing raw, for most people! Red meat IS amazing for raw...
 
Matt Walker
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I think raw chicken is a bad idea for almost anyone, although I suppose people could adapt.  Raw red meat is safe for most, although it takes some adapting as well.  Ruminant meat is easier to digest raw, due to more enzymes still in the meat as compared to cooked.  Most indigenous carnivore cultures used to cherish not only raw, but rotten meat, due the same reasons.  Inuit would let it go all the way to having maggots, which I have heard was considered to be excellent eating.  I don't think I'll ever get that far!

To be clear Xisca, I have always been surrounded by plant based eating as well.  My brother and sister are lifelong vegetarians.  I have been partners with vegetarians long term, and eaten that way myself, for decades.  My views on nutrition have done a complete 180 in this past year.  I'm so glad too, the overall effect of removing plants from my diet has been profound in many, many ways.
 
Xisca Nicolas
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Matt Walker wrote:To be clear Xisca, I have always been surrounded by plant based eating as well. My views on nutrition have done a complete 180 in this past year.  I'm so glad too, the overall effect of removing plants from my diet has been profound in many, many ways.

If you have any time and wish to say what triggered you for such a change? And the effect? It is very interesting for people to know in what case it makes a difference. Usually it is good for more parasympathetic people, or having a tendency to slow thyroid and metabolism, and a big need for protein and stimulation of HCl.

After a hair analysis, I was advised to get at least 40% of my calories from animal products. I had already made a try in my 20's, and loved it but it was too difficult. I very recently decided to give it a try again, so I jumped on this topic!

Living in the subtropics, I have just tryed high fruits 2 years, and was still high in protein but with more goat cheese than meat, and it was not ok. 1 pound of raw beef per day is great! The guinea pig was good, but I will go on cooking the skin Ii think....
 
C├ęcile Stelzer Johnson
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Xisca Nicolas wrote:
Matt Walker wrote:To be clear Xisca, I have always been surrounded by plant based eating as well. My views on nutrition have done a complete 180 in this past year.  I'm so glad too, the overall effect of removing plants from my diet has been profound in many, many ways.

If you have any time and wish to say what triggered you for such a change? And the effect? It is very interesting for people to know in what case it makes a difference. Usually it is good for more parasympathetic people, or having a tendency to slow thyroid and metabolism, and a big need for protein and stimulation of HCl.

After a hair analysis, I was advised to get at least 40% of my calories from animal products. I had already made a try in my 20's, and loved it but it was too difficult. I very recently decided to give it a try again, so I jumped on this topic!

Living in the subtropics, I have just tried high fruits 2 years, and was still high in protein but with more goat cheese than meat, and it was not ok. 1 pound of raw beef per day is great! The guinea pig was good, but I will go on cooking the skin Ii think....



This thread is very interesting but seems to attract folks who are either total carnivores or total vegans. I'd like to point out that from our dentition, you can determine that we were created as omnivores. My hubby swears by meat while my system rebels and plugs when I eat nothing but meat, even for a meal or two. While most folks feel that sugars are a big no-no, I feed that I tolerate a lot more sugar than most, and quite well: It would send most pre-diabetics into a coma. Salads and fruit give me the least trouble and I can eat breads and pasta, but they are not my fave, and I have friends who no longer eat ANYTHING with gluten, some of them even falling seriously sick when they do.
From the look of all this, perhaps  the ability and the desire to eat all sorts of foods may be a great adaptation: In case of famine, I will seek out anything comestible even if it is a little far out for other people. I have eaten raw horse but not raw pork or chicken, and I have memory of a pheasant my grandpa "cooked" after it hung for 3 weeks, with guts in. He waited until the brain would come out through the nostrils, as he said, and the flesh was definitely blue. I didn't get sick and it was quite good, in the pre-digested kinda way.
I wonder if the choices people make are due to perceived advantages according to what they have read, or if their feelings of not feeling "quite right" after they eat foods they think they should not touch are some sort of a placebo effect. I'm not seeking to knock anyone down and I think they truly feel the way they say they do. In other words, do they feel well or not well because of the food, or because they think the food they ate was in the no-no category and they expect to feel under the weather? Kinda self fulfilling prophecy? Have they convinced themselves and now they are so convinced that they cannot "stomach"different foods?
The simple fact is we ARE omnivores.
 
Cody DeBaun
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From the look of all this, perhaps  the ability and the desire to eat all sorts of foods may be a great adaptation


Cecile I think you make a very important point. It's always fascinating to me to see the total transformation that comes over some folk's thinking when the topic of diet comes up. I have a friend that studies evolutionary biology who, when the subject of diet comes up, will waste no time launching into an explanation of how we were 'meant' to eat a particular diet. Perhaps I take a more fundamentalist approach to evolution than most, but what I take from it is that there isn't much of anything we're 'meant' to do. Organisms try things, they work well or they don't, (or they work okay, or most likely they work well in some ways and don't in others and are okay in the rest). When people say we're 'meant' to eat a certain way, are they after ideal, perfect nutrition?

Even if there was a diet that was 'meant' for humans, pre-humans vs humanity now are very different things. We've been through some extraordinary breeding and selection activities throughout human history, and I wouldn't doubt with more genetic drift than any mammal before us.

My partner is a vegan, full stop. She's also an avid runner, with a deep and abiding love of carbs. If I try and eat the same, I put on weight faster than a man carrying buckets through a thunderstorm, my sinuses pack overnight and I'm tired and inflamed dawn til dusk. I eat a diet much closer to keto/paleo, and find that the more meat and vegetable I eat, the happier and healthier I am. The only thing we really agree on food wise is dairy (none in our house.)

I do believe there are limits, of course, to what a human being can thrive on (looking at you, breatharians), but I'm not surprised to hear that some people do great eating raw beef twice a day, or never eating raw meat, and anything in between. Whatever diet one consumes though, variety seems an effective way to ensure you're not missing anything. Keeps life interesting, too.
 
Xisca Nicolas
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C├ęcile Stelzer Johnson wrote:we were created as omnivores. My hubby swears by meat while my system rebels and plugs when I eat nothing but meat, even for a meal or two. While most folks feel that sugars are a big no-no, I feed that I tolerate a lot more sugar than most, and quite well: It would send most pre-diabetics into a coma. Salads and fruit give me the least trouble and I can eat breads and pasta,

. In other words, do they feel well or not well because of the food, or because they think the food they ate was in the no-no category and they expect to feel under the weather? .


Cody DeBaun wrote:My partner is a vegan, full stop. She's also an avid runner, with a deep and abiding love of carbs. If I try and eat the same, I put on weight faster than a man carrying buckets through a thunderstorm, my sinuses pack overnight and I'm tired and inflamed dawn til dusk. I eat a diet much closer to keto/paleo, and find that the more meat and vegetable I eat, the happier and healthier I am. The only thing we really agree on food wise is dairy (none in our house.) 


This is exactly the point of oxydation types (Paul Eck)
People who thrive with sugar and are avid at working out / exercising have a high oxydation rate and a strong adrenaline system: their bodies want to burn fuel!

People who thrive on meat and veggies can usually fast with much more ease, and are more parasympathetic dominant personalities. They have no urge to exercise and need motivations to do so and go in life in general. If they eat sugars, their cortisol go mad and they do not do good to regulate their energy.

So, maybe some lost people rely on their knowledge, but I think that mostly it is the reverse: people have strong intuitions about their food, and then they jump on any mental justification about their feelings. So it is body based, but as westerners we usually us modern people do not like very much to say we rely on instinct and gut intelligence, so we love theories that match our feelings.
 
Maureen Atsali
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Diet discussions can (and do) get as heated as religious debates.  People believe in their way of eating passionately, believe it is the best and only way for humanity to thrive, and are eager to convert others!

I have run through just about every diet out there, trying to find the magic fix for my chronic health problems, and for many years, trying to lose weight.  I was a vegetarian for more than 10 years, vegan for a few years, and a complete raw fruitarian for a time.  I read all I could about raw vegetarian nutrition, and I felt the science was strong.  I was a believer!  But I still felt terrible, I was still morbidly obese, I still had all the same problems, and many of them got worse. But that was me, my body, my genetics.  If you feel good as a raw vegan or vegetarian, awesome and go with that.

I lost the weight when I came to Africa. I can't explain the "why", except maybe the lack of processed foods.  I did not diet.  I did not deliberately exercise.  (Where as previously I was something of an exercise fanatic).  I ate everything that was put in front of me, and within a year I was a normal weight, for the first time in my life.  And I maintained that weight, without any deliberate effort for five years and two pregnancies (after 10 years of infertility).  But after the second baby, I started to not feel so well again, and the weight started to creep up.  My blood sugars were out of control again.  So it was back to the drawing board, doing research, trying to find a dietary solution.  And experimentation.  Wheat makes me feel terrible and sick.  I'm a baker, so that was not a pleasant discovery.  Eliminating processed sugar was a no brainer.  Its been much harder to let go of fruits and starchy vegetables, which are staples of our African diet.  But I can't deny, the fewer the carbs, the better I feel, and the better I function.  Again, I know its not for everyone, but my body, and my genetics seem carb intolerant.  So I have spent the last year trying to convert our farm from mainly vegetable production to more animal production.  Fat and meat are considered luxuries of the rich in this culture.  But its also estimated that more than 60% of people here are full blown diabetics.  ­čś«
 
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