List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Bill McGee wrote:
My soil is a very fine silt and land is on a slope. Inspired from this site I do a modified "post-hole dug zai pit" for each plant
1. Shovel off top soil layer and save
2. Use post hole digger and go 18" down (or as needed for roots of plant)
3.line bottom with biomass gley (leaves or paper, etc) to slow water absorbtion
4. Mix in mature compost with soil removed. At top mix top soil and organics
5. Leave a small basin so it collects water
6. Build a small semi circle basin on the down slope side to also help collect run off rain
7. Plant
It might be efficent to compost directly into the "PH zai pits" and save a handling step.
Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:I live in a hot, dry climate here in Phoenix, Arizona. I have also lived in Kenya, Somalia and Lesotho.
Here are some resources that may help you - some of them are happening close to you:
Farmer Managed Natural Regeneration: http://fmnrhub.com.au/
Niger has had some fabulous success with reclaiming desertified lands with FMNR:
Zai Pits and the story of Yacouba Sawadogo - the "Man who Stopped the Desert"
How to build Zai Pits: http://en.howtopedia.org/wiki/How_to_Start_Culture_in_Zai_Holes
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Bryant RedHawk wrote:First thing to know about Caliche is that it is water impermeable.
That means, if you do sunken beds, the Caliche will need to be broken up over a far greater area than what the garden beds will take in.
Jack hammers and demolition hammers are the norm for breaking up Caliche.
Once this stuff is broken down into small pebble sizes it can be amended with compost and or wood chips.
As you found out Cedar (actually in your area it is most likely to be juniper, commonly miss named cedar) is allopathic, to combat the allopathy fungi work wonders at removing the compounds the "cedar" trees sent into the soil as exudates.
Expect it to take a year to remediate cedar soils to the point where vegetable and other plants will be able to grow.
Gardening in Caliche can be done, I have a friend who is doing it quite well, it just takes a lot of time.
The most organic method of decomposing Caliche is to use vinegars, Caliche is Calcium carbonate and vinegar will dissolve it just as it does in high school chemistry class. (Remember the rock that bubbled when vinegar was poured on it?)
Redhawk
Chris Kott wrote:I am really glad Redhawk showed up to address this issue. His soil primer is really useful.
Caliche is usually (always?) basic. While I would always test the soil, I am pretty sure you'll need to adjust the pH.
As mentioned, you're going to need more than just the bed space broken up. Do you have any pioneer weeds that eke out an existence on the caliche? Maybe they could be encouraged to do the work of assisting to break it up, should any of their root systems work for that.
-CK
William Bronson wrote: Im curious if you have noted where the water pools, or runns, when the rain does come.
Steve Farmer wrote:I use a hammer drill for a few mins to make a small plant pot sized hole and then in the bottom of that a 1 metre long masonry drill goes in for roots to follow water down. Takes a few mins and then desert trees grow successfully. I've even got a few hybrid poplars going with this method but they need water at least a couple of times a month in summer.
Anne Miller wrote:This thread is located below your thread in "Similar Threads". In case you have not seen it, it may contain some helpful info ...
https://permies.com/t/53929/Successful-annual-vegetables-Central-Texas
It will not help you dig the hole but it may offer suggestions on how to fill the hole.
Do you have Live Oak, Shin Oak or other oak trees? You will find usable soft dirt collecting under them with plenty of organic matter. This leaf matter is good for perennial plants.
If your property is large enough you may be able to find pockets of clay soil. I am not sure how to tell you how to find it, maybe by looking for pockets that do not have lots of rock. Our clay pit was about 5'x5' and 3' deep. It no longer contains any clay as we used it to make our raised beds but it now would make a great sunken garden. Since you plan to have a contractor come out he may be able to help you find a pocket.
Anne Miller wrote:Have you researched using "Zai Holes"?
Here are some threads:
https://permies.com/t/38879/Sinking-Sand
Bill McGee wrote:
My soil is a very fine silt and land is on a slope. Inspired from this site I do a modified "post-hole dug zai pit" for each plant
1. Shovel off top soil layer and save
2. Use post hole digger and go 18" down (or as needed for roots of plant)
3.line bottom with biomass gley (leaves or paper, etc) to slow water absorbtion
4. Mix in mature compost with soil removed. At top mix top soil and organics
5. Leave a small basin so it collects water
6. Build a small semi circle basin on the down slope side to also help collect run off rain
7. Plant
It might be efficent to compost directly into the "PH zai pits" and save a handling step.
https://permies.com/t/36823/restoring-land-permaculture-methods-photos#287561
Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:I live in a hot, dry climate here in Phoenix, Arizona. I have also lived in Kenya, Somalia and Lesotho.
Here are some resources that may help you - some of them are happening close to you:
Farmer Managed Natural Regeneration: http://fmnrhub.com.au/
Niger has had some fabulous success with reclaiming desertified lands with FMNR:
Zai Pits and the story of Yacouba Sawadogo - the "Man who Stopped the Desert"
How to build Zai Pits: http://en.howtopedia.org/wiki/How_to_Start_Culture_in_Zai_Holes
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
Mark Kissinger wrote:I assume the vinegar is sprayed or allowed to spread in whatever shallow trench that you can provide. You can test by pouring a gallon of white vinegar into a test hole, and watch for the fizzing, which shows the chemical reaction. If the vinegar works, you will be able to break up a layer of dirt that you can then use to create a soil, using your compost, manure, or other amendments. Get a bunch of pH soil testing strips to keep track of how your soil treatments are affecting the pH of your soil. If the vinegar makes your soil too acidic, you can try adding some ground up gypsum board (drywall) or other base pH material to neutralize your soil to the desired pH. Starting small, and seeing what works could save you a lot of work in the long run. Try to get the plants and animals to do most of the hard work for you by doing what they do naturally.
If you must hurry to get up and running in a single season, you may have to start with Zia pits for each plant, then infill between established plants as you progress, eventually ending up with the first row of your planting bed.
(I am not a plant-person, so you'll have to do some research to determine which plants might work in your area.) For your orchard, consider planting an upper-canopy tree to nurture and shelter your orchard trees and to pull up sub-surface nutrients. Think in terms of establishing a forest-garden guild of companion plants.
You may not be able to create a traditional-looking planting bed from the start, but perhaps you can let your plants do the work for you. It may take a series of steps to prepare the entire area to be planted. I would start with some test holes to see what works.
You may try to establish some sort of litter-producing ground cover first, to form a habitat for useful microbes, earthworms, and dung-beetles to take hold. Plant some deep-rooting cover grass, such as big bluestem or a clumping type of deep-rooting grass. Remember, you are in this for the sustainable long-haul, so you may have to change your expectations for which yields you can work with along the way to get you to your eventual goal. Be aware that if you do end up achieving some sort of sunken pit, you'll need to allow for the run-off (both surface and sub-surface) to avoid ponding and drowning out your plant's root systems after it rains. If you can utilize the property's natural slope, so much the better. Otherwise, you'll have to allow for the water to sink below the level of the roots. As I recall, Texas can get some pretty serious rain and floods at times. One extreme possibility is to install some 4" perforated pipes underneath your planting beds and feed them into a sump-pit, where you can pump or drain the excess water out from beneath your flooded beds. Think in terms of an absorption field such as one might use for a septic system. Ideally, any such extreme measures would be as a last resort, and whatever method you use should use as little energy as possible.
Reading your replies, I see that you do have a slope at your disposal, so you could allow any water that would fill up your zia pits to run out to daylight. Just leave the downhill side of your zia pit open to the slope below. You wouldn't need any pipes to do that. Water flows downhill, even if it is underground. Just plan for adequate drainage.
James Everett wrote:I feel you pain I am up here in Gaines County Texas and know what you are talking about with hard pan. For the most part I been letting my yard get messy like this picture and once it gets tall and seeds I come through with a weed eater and cut it down and then let it grow up again. I have found just by gathering up this material and laying down as stray builds up my yard better over time. These pictures are an area dug this year and what the grasses did with water collecting in from rains this year on my caliche area.
Also if you want to see more of what I am doing you can go the following link and see other tests i am doing. I am tempted to go across the draw and see what the guy raising sheep is doing with the manure and see if I can take that for my land. Just Getting the land covered I notice that by the next year I am able to work it a little more.
https://permies.com/t/71712/Everjams-Farms-Gaines-County-Texas
List of Bryant RedHawk's Epic Soil Series Threads We love visitors, that's why we live in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. "Buzzard's Roost (Asnikiye Heca) Farm." Promoting permaculture to save our planet.
Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner
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