What a complicated accomplishment. I wanted to try grafting apple trees. Couldn't find every thing I wanted from one place and it got complicated. The one place (grandpas)  that had both rootstocks I wanted charged $45 for shipping a small order. When I added another dozen rootstocks the shipping cost stayed the same, so I never ordered there.

I wanted scions, Black Oxford and MacIntosh, from fedco but they only allow you to order a minimum of 10. Wound Up I ordered the 10 M111 rootstocks and my scions there shipping $21.50.

The other thing I ordered was M7 rootstocks, which I ordered from Cummins, they apparently were out of the M111. They listed that one but had no place to order.

What I plan to try is to make an interstem graft of an M7 on top of an M111 rootstock. That way I'll get a hardy rootstock that grows well in the clay I have and isn't so likely to blow over on my hilltop location.  My BIL has a Mac that he's agreed to let me take a scion, which I'll do in the summer. But I'm afraid that the Macs sold today have been altered so much that they might not be what I really want. Si the Mac I got is I think from an old tree. Anyway I'll try both. The other thing I want to try is to plant an M7, both the ones I took cuttings off and an uncut one to see If I can get cuttings in the future. I haven't read of that being done before, to get cuttings for interstem use.

I read all the time how cheap it is to make your own trees by grafting, but when you get to actually do it I find it's not really all that cheap. So I'll have extra M111 rootstocks after all this is over.

It's a worthy adventure!


I think what is normally meant by grafting onto rootstocks being cheap is that you can graft over 1000 trees for well under $1000....and then grow out some rootstocks for free propagation and grafting in later years.....

Around here they sell 'wild cherry' trees for euro - quite large, about 5ft.  Generally you just buy one, let it grow, and take cuttings from it to give yourself a near never-ending supply of rootstock.  Then you grow one of every kind of cherry you can lay your hands on and use your favourites to supply scions to graft to your home-produced root-stock cuttings.

With apple, they mostly grow on quince rootstock around here so we plant loads of quince seed from our strongest quince trees to give us rootstock.

It's also fun to swap scions.  Grafting doesn't *have* to be expensive, unless you want to buy everything.  But even then, that's likely to be only for the first year while you set yourself up.

Quince from hard wood cuttings or layering is even faster than from seed :-)
This year I am going to try pear on Hawthorne , yup I know the pear grows too big but I am going to bury it below the graft :-)

David

Thanks for those who responded.

I do have a source for crab apple seed. The tree is maybe 15x15 and the crab apples are at best about two inches in diameter (50mm). I don't know what they are and don't have enough room, and the years, to do an experiment. I saw where an M9 rootstock is often used for the interstem, but I wanted a tree bigger than what the M9 is said to produce. Over the years I learned to stay away from dwarf trees. The M7 also seems to maybe be more resistant to diseases. ??

I also would like to do a small test on growing apples from seed and focusing on varieties that will self pollinate and ensuring that they do. I'm going to try MacIntosh which my BIL has and Golden Delicious which might bloom this year for the first time. I plan on growing maybe 10 of each and if that's not enough to prove that I can grow these from seed then in my opinion the idea is a failure.

Burnt Ridge Nursery in Washington offers a selection of rootstock by the piece. They also have a nice variety of scionwood.

http://www.burntridgenursery.com/default.asp
http://www.burntridgenursery.com/Rootstock/products/98/

I've also seen rootstock available through local orchards that do their own grafting and buy rootstock in quantity. Sometimes they are willing to sell just a few to the homestead hobbyist. Only need to ask or do a little search.

I bet you could sell those extra M111s on Craigslist or something and recoup some expense.

Good luck with your grafting! It's always interesting to see what works out.

Becky

I had already looked at the nursery you linked to. I had a few M111's in their cart, but I left, I think because they didn't have both rootstocks. I'm now looking for a Rome apple seedling, mostly because I like it in pies and my local orchard seems to be discontinuing it. My opinion is the nurseries are also getting rid of it. Stark had it in their catalog and I looked on their web site and they only have the dwarfs this year. I hate dwarfs, I've never had any luck with them. So searching for "rome apple semi-dwarf" what comes up but grandpas again. If in the beginning I'd have ordered both root stocks, a few scions and the Rome I could have lived with the $45 shipping charge. Oh-well.

I am thinking of selling my excess M111s, but not till I have them in hand.

It looks like sourcing what you want is harder than the actual grafting, but I've never done it so maybe I shouldn't make that assumption till I've actually done it.

Beginning grafting is pretty forgiving -- if you fail, the rootstock generally survives and thrives and you get another chance next year (or you can try some August bud grafting instead..)  And if you mound up your dirt a little when groowing trees out, you will get some new rooted rootstock coming out as well...pretty soon you will need to find a place to sell them  all...

These folks have good quality scion wood, grown in Sunset Zone 14. Over a thousand varieties on five acres, quite a collection, so they might have what you want.

Corrinaandmarc@fruitwoodnursery.com

David Livingston wrote:Quince from hard wood cuttings or layering is even faster than from seed :-)
This year I am going to try pear on Hawthorne , yup I know the pear grows too big but I am going to bury it below the graft :-)

David

Grafting a pear onto a hawthorne?? Very interesting

Just had a quick Google.

We have hundreds of Hawthorne trees on our land and I have 5 varieties of pear tree for scions :) :) :) :)

I grafted the M7's to the M111's about a month ago. I did a MacIntosh, a Black Oxford and a Redfield. I got the Black Oxford for a keeper apple. Fedco says they store till July of the following year. The Redfield is a red fleshed apple. It's a cross of  Wolf River x Niedzwetzkyana. Niedzwetzkyana is a crab apple from Kyrgyzstan. With the Redfield everything is red, the flesh, the leaves, the blossoms and they don't mention this but when I grafted the scion the wood of the scion has red streaks in it. I also grafted an M7 to an M111 to plant with the Red Rome Dwarf which I did order from Stark.

When I did the grafts I cut myself twice. I had drilled a hole in a 10 inch length of 2x4 which I found was too cumbersome. The next time I try to graft I came up with the idea of cutting the bottom off a milk jug and putting a hole in it. This will allow me to maneuver the stems and have the guard protect my fingers without making the whole operation impossible. I used a safety knife with a new blade in it. I found that you need a longer blade than it has. I had a roll of grafting tape for the grafts and I used teflon plumbers tape for the tips.

I planted the grafts out two days ago, April 23. I dug holes in my clay,, about 42 inches in diameter and fenced them in with 5 foot high fencing on one post. I used the 42 inch size as I thought I'd get 4 plantings out of a 50 foot roll of fencing. I didn't quite make it. I put the Red Rome and the M7 on M111 in the same hole, about a foot apart. In August I'll graft a Bud from the dwarf to the Semi-Dwarf interstem combo that I grafted earlier. I expect the semi-dwarf will eventually overgrow the dwarf, but if it makes it I won't really care about the overwhelmed dwarf Rome even tho I paid good money for it.

I sold my excess M111 rootstocks on eBay. I got free boxes from the post office, 4x4" x 26" long.  The shipping cost I think was $7 or so for each shipment. I also sold the roots from the M7's which were still long enough to graft to. Those I shipped in an envelope first class for a few bucks. So I think my buyers were thrilled with the cost of shipping compared to the sellers I bought from. I was worried that I'd get a buyer from a state like California buy one and that I'd get in trouble. eBay let's me block Alaska and Hawaii. But no other states. I did block all international shipping, cause I'd expect the package would get seized at customs. The proceeds from those sales paid for my Red Rome from Stark.

Next year I'm going to graft cherries and Bartlett pears, if this years work isn't a failure.

Don't forget to protect them from rabbits and voles girdling them...

Mike

I don't have much problems with voles and rabbits. I have had rabbit issues with blueberries tho.

I had an unusual occurrence with my apple planting which I've mentioned in prior posts here. As I said above on April 23, I planted a Red Rome dwarf seedling that came bareroot from Stark. On Monday, May 14, I notice the tree was setting flower buds. I know this thread is mostly about grafting but grafting comes into this flowering because I planted the rootstock semi-dwarf interstem graft right next to the tree. It must know that it's life is threatened and is responding by trying to reproduce as soon as possible. I mean it must be able to see that rootstock right down there at its feet. err I mean roots.

I got some pictures, let's see if I can post them.

Well I attempted to add 5 photos as attachments from my own computer. The only one that is displayed in the post is the last one which shows the seedling with its future home, the rootstock to the left and slightly in front of it. I'm going to add one more picture a closeup of the blossoms.