Collin Vickers wrote:
If you don't consider it too personal a matter, could you tell us your experiences with getting your land, pros/cons, what you would/wouldn't change if you could - that sort of thing?
She fed 17 families from this farm.
Cal Edon wrote:
There is a remarkable absence of published evidence regarding the effectiveness of permaculture.
Collin Vickers wrote: the video doesn't answer many questions one might have: how big is the forest, how many years before it produced, (I'm guessing around seven, based on what Lawton says elsewhere in the presentation,)
Collin Vickers wrote:I don't think anyone here is advocating the existing agricultural model. We inexperienced folks, just starting out, are trying to get a handle on what reasonable expectations are.
Collin Vickers wrote:Here's a postulate for you, and consider it a rhetorical question. Should I buy bargain land and build it over time, or should I invest in premium land and hope for a quicker turnover?
Collin Vickers wrote:It's probably foolhardy to expect every person with five acres to produce all the food their family needs, with a full range of complimentary ingredients, but if permies were able to establish a community model over a larger tract of land, have a few people in charge in the forest, a few in charge of the pasture, etc, and trade goods with one another, much more could be achieved.
Collin Vickers wrote:Have a USDA inspected facility for a hundred acres of mixed use land, and say 10-20 independent farmers who market their products collectively, is much more feasible.
Collin Vickers wrote:When it's time to harvest the poultry and livestock, they can do it and get the maximum market effect by adding value, and only use the facility for a few days a year, while others can use the same facility to can their own sauces/salsas at different times of year, and so forth.
Cal Edon wrote:Part of the scientific method? The scientific method would require that careful tests be conducted of the effectiveness of permaculture's ideas, then the methods used and results found would be published. There is a remarkable absence of published evidence regarding the effectiveness of permaculture.
Collin Vickers wrote:most of the bigshots in permaculture own farm-sized tracts of land, yet seem to make the lion's share of their living by spreading the gospel in spite of that, (I could be wrong, I'm making an uninformed assumption,) and some of them do likewise while they don't even own a parcel of land.
Collin Vickers wrote:Holzer could make a profit off the produce of his farm, hypothetically, but the Austrian government won't let him. Do we have similar problems in the States?
Collin Vickers wrote:Can we get around that, and if so, how?
Collin Vickers wrote:Salatin makes a living off the produce of his farm, but some folks who have visited say Polyface isn't so kosher after all, with rivers of ------ flowing freely in the fields
Collin Vickers wrote:I'd be happy to cash in on the PDC pyramid scheme/book and speaking tour gig too, I guess, but that isn't what I want to do. I want to grow wholesome food for myself and others, and not face game over in year three because I couldn't pay my property taxes, all for the sake of not knowing my ear from a hole in the ground when I started.
Collin Vickers wrote:My point of view is that of a beginner, someone who doesn't own land, and isn't qualified to discern truth from falsity based on any particular frame of reference. Most of the techniques that fall under the broadest possible umbrella of permaculture aren't of much use to me, until I have some ground to play on, I'm living on it/working on it full time, and have the authority to call the shots. Getting to that stage requires an investment of scarce resources, (time and money,)
Collin Vickers wrote:If my misgivings are rooted in ignorance and naivete, I'll own up to it, but the fact is I don't know who to believe.
Collin Vickers wrote:I feel my expectations are reasonable: start making payments on a piece of land, work a 9-5 to make ends meet while I work my second full-time job of getting something rolling, cut back my hours in town when the land begins to reduce my expenses, and then finally, some glorious day, make enough off my land to be self-sufficient in the land that I'm stewarding.
Collin Vickers wrote:If and when that day comes, then I can start turning my thoughts to helping, if not the world, my neighborhood.
Collin Vickers wrote:Why is so much front-end research important to me? Why am I reluctant to just jump in and pay my dues like the pioneers in this field? Again, scarcity of resources. Why reinvent the wheel if I can get up to speed with the mainstream, (of permaculture,) and begin to contribute something meaningful?
Collin Vickers wrote:Here's a postulate for you, and consider it a rhetorical question. Should I buy bargain land and build it over time
Collin Vickers wrote:The minutiae of techniques are wonderful, and can't be separated from the larger whole that is permaculture, but I'm not trying to hammer out the finer points of deep bedding in a winter chicken coop
Collin Vickers wrote:'Early Retirement Extreme'?
Collin Vickers wrote:I want to see: 'You too can have a permaculture farm/homestead/backyard/windowsill,
Collin Vickers wrote:this is a comprehensive explanation of how I did it
Collin Vickers wrote:That's why I asked the people who are currently living permaculture to share their testimony.