Birdman wrote:
but there is the personal side of capitalism, and that is freedom, the freedom of being to use your mind and talents and possessions to better your self and your family,
Birdman wrote:
with out this personal side of Capitalism there would be little Permaculture even being tried, as one would not have the freedom of exploration of what YOU think is the better way,
Birdman wrote:
yes Capitalism need a moral base to work properly, as with out you try to regulate the excess of or the abuses of the potential of the system on those who are in the system,
and the end result of the regulatory system is a socialistic system of controls and limits.
Birdman wrote:
profit in the system is necessary as if there is no profit from your produce or labor then you will never have any thing for improving your self,
As profit is usually defined as extra after the expenses and the costs are payed,
if all the system has to offer is just the survival of your situation what means do you have to better your self,
example say you sell goat milk to a customer, and you only charge for the cost of the feed, and a estimated cost of the fencing over 20 years, and so on, when do you have money to add more goats to your herd, or to buy that great buck the neighbor has, to improve the future of your herd, or that automatic milker.
Birdman wrote:
where is that money coming from if profit is not in the system, or you may not want to use it on the enterprise it self but on a kids birthday present, or a music system, the profit in the system is what many times gives one the drive to do better, to do better and be more efficient,
Kerrick wrote:
I just read A Language Older Than Words by Derrick Jensen and it pretty much answered all the questions I had about what my relationship can be with capitalism if I am to incorporate permaculture ethics. I highly recommend it--I think it's a book everyone should wrestle with, even if only to challenge yourself to formulate why you disagree.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
what was wrong no profit, there was not surplus, extra, profit,We planted 20 bushes of seed potatoes and they harvested 20 bushels of potatoes,
Now this was there own fault they could have planted more potatoes,
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Robert Ray wrote:
I'm saying there will always be trade and trade is capitalism.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Robert Ray wrote:
You mention "Culture" and there in lies the problem how to change the culture of greed. If greed and bad practitioners were removed from your idea of capitalism would you agree that capitalism is not in and of itself bad? A way to share ones profit with others and allow them to do the same.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Birdman wrote:
For some reason I do not think the Good ol USA and the economic system it has used, has treated us that bad as of yet.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
tel wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise that you aren't an American Indian, or a salmon, or a mother who's breast milk poisoned her child with PCBs, or been redlined when you applied for a mortgage, or been beaten up because of who you find attractive, or found yourself the target of excessive police attention because you don't have a safe place to stay indoors, or been raped because you're perceived as an object of gratification, or... shall I go on?
just because it has treated you relatively well doesn't mean it has treated anybody else well. go ahead and say those things are not a result of capitalism, but I'm going to judge it by the fruit it sets.
Birdman wrote:
tell me of a place where these or similar type of things have not happened, (regardless of the system)
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Robert Ray wrote:
The bitter fruit you are tasting is an acorn with a few rinses it will become a sweet kernel that will sustain you.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Birdman wrote:
tel
I am feel for you if you have been violated and tread up on, by the cruelnesses of others, (That I am truly sorry for, it should not happen to any one), and been handed the short straw in life.
But it appears that you hold the economic system called capitalism as the root of all the wrongs of the world, and any thing that has happened to you or your family personally.
If your so set on your belief that it what is wrong with everything and everyone.
then is nothing I can say. That will change your thinking or understanding of what I see.
I do hope you fine your Utopia,
Robert Ray wrote:
Now I can get on board with making government smaller and more responsive.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Robert Ray wrote:
If government was left out of the equation capitalism is an effective model that rewards work and knowledge.
Robert Ray wrote:
I'm sure you have seen workers who don't pull their weight in some circumstance and don't deserve the compensation that a harder worker does. If you have a plant that does not produce you replace it or encourage it to produce. The same could be said of an employee. Compensation should be measured.
...I also think that those that work hard should be able to be rewarded for their hard work
Robert Ray wrote:A firearm or rock sitting on a table poses no danger. It is how the firearm or rock is used that changes it's purpose.
Robert Ray wrote:
I also believe that there needs to be a system to help those less fortunate. Age, health unemployment are bumps that occur. Some form of sharing by all needs to be incorporated in a healthy community for those in crisis and infirmity.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Robert Ray wrote:
I guess I've said all I have to say.
Robert Ray wrote:
If you're ever in my neck of the woods, the beer is always cold.
find religion! church
kiva! hyvä! iloinen! pikkumaatila
get stung! beehives
be hospitable! host-a-hive
be antisocial! facespace
the freedom capitalism offers seems pretty hollow to me. it's basically the freedom to choose what to buy. if you're one of the privileged few, you may also have the option of some version of "opting out".
Previously known as "Antibubba".
It is our contention that most of the critical environmental problems we have are either caused, or made much worse, by the workings of our economic system. Even such issues as population growth and technology are best viewed in terms of their relation to the socioeconomic organization of society. Environmental problems are not a result of human ignorance or innate greed. They do not arise because managers of individual large corporations or developers are morally deficient. Instead, we must look to the fundamental workings of the economic (and political/social) system for explanations. It is precisely the fact that ecological destruction is built into the inner nature and logic of our present system of production that makes it so difficult to solve.
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
so·cial·ism
–noun
1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism
com·mu·nism 1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
fas·cism a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Posted by: Kerrick
Birdman, why do you think you need profit to improve yourself? Do you think before the cash economy was developed, no one ever improved themselves? How do you think we developed agriculture and language then?
why do you think you need profit to improve yourself?
Do you think before the cash economy was developed, no one ever improved themselves?
How do you think we developed agriculture and language then?
Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.
Always! Wait. Never. Shut up. Look at this tiny ad.
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