• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • raven ranson
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Julia Winter
garden masters:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • thomas rubino
  • Bill Crim
  • Kim Goodwin
  • Joylynn Hardesty
gardeners:
  • Amit Enventres
  • Mike Jay
  • Dan Boone

Help! C. Difficile in a Schnauzer puppy off a reservation  RSS feed

 
pollinator
Posts: 1814
Location: Toronto, Ontario
125
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Please help if you can. My sister-in-law's miniature Schnauzer puppy has a c. Difficile problem and possibly other digestive complications.

He has been on antibiotics for a month with little improvement, and the vet isn't recommending further treatment as she thinks it's a lost cause.

His poop is often mostly liquid, but he's putting on a little more weight, and is starting to grow more normally, but the vet is obviously not hopeful.

I am open to dietary suggestions, as well as specific directions as to how to use things like Apple cider vinegar, diatomaceous earth, baking soda, or anything else that might make it possible for this puppy to kick his illness.

Please let me know. There's a 9-month-old little girl particularly attached to this puppy, and I would love to see them grow up together. Thanks in advance.

-CK
 
garden master
Posts: 1840
Location: USDA Zone 8a
303
bee dog food preservation greening the desert hunting cooking purity trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have not had any experience with this though it seems since this is a bacterial infection, I would give the puppy honey since it has anti bacterial properties.  Also I would think that yogurt with the active probiotics would help.

I don't think either would hurt the puppy.  Maybe even some pumpkin might be good.

Please have your sister introduce these in very small quantities at first to get the puppy used to them, if she decides to try them.
 
Posts: 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would start feeding yogurt with some rice and cottage cheese.  I find that works well for tummy problem I my dogs and yogurt will start adding good bugs to digestive tract.
 
master steward
Posts: 5180
Location: Pacific Northwest
1483
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My husband has Crohn's and takes Saccharomyces Boulardii. It's used to treat C diff all around the world in humans. Maybe try adding some pills to hotdogs, or just opening the capsule and adding it to the water or other liquid. Here's the ones we use: https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Saccharomyces-Boulardii-Veg-Capsules/dp/B0053W995W/ref=sr_ph_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1531779085&sr=sr-1&keywords=NOW+Saccharomyces. It's the cheapest with the least additives. You can also pick up Florastor at most big grocery stores (Target, Fred Meyer, Walmart). It's more expensive, but you don't have to wait to have it shipped.

I'd also make sure the dog is on a all-meat diet--no starches/binders/etc. Those often mess with those who have Crohn's/IBS, as they feed the wrong bacteria.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1127
Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)
172
books forest garden rabbit solar tiny house woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chris, this is going to sound weird.........
While working in veterinary medicine, I occasionally saw a pup that was non-responsive to treatment. We would end up keeping the dog on antibiotics for months, perhaps years, with a medical diet and regimen. The slightest thing set these patients into long bouts of liquid diarrhea and their overall health would decline even more.

I sometimes had good results with these type dogs by resorting to a trick that an old-timey veterinarian showed me when I was just a teenager working for him. He would feed the dog a mix of....
..a cup of raw meat (you can't use supermarket meat nowadays since its most likely contaminated. You'd have to use your own home reared meat or get it from a safe source. There are safe raw meat products available in high end pet stores, like Petco. It's frozen.)
...about 2 to 3 tablespoons of dirt taken from a doghouse or kennel where a healthy, parasite-free dog lives
...about a tablespoonful of fresh poop from that healthy dog.
Mix it all together and feed to the sick dog. Sometimes just one treatment did the trick, but usually it had to be fed daily for about two weeks.

Ive seen this work in young puppies and bring a lifelong cure. The older the pup or dog, the longer it takes to effect. Just as with people, fecal transplanting in older dogs often needs to be repeated twice a year or so.

Don't know if your sister would be willing to try this old time remedy, but it surely wouldn't hurt.
 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 5180
Location: Pacific Northwest
1483
cat duck fiber arts forest garden homestead hugelkultur kids cooking wood heat
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Su Ba wrote:

Ive seen this work in young puppies and bring a lifelong cure. The older the pup or dog, the longer it takes to effect. Just as with people, fecal transplanting in older dogs often needs to be repeated twice a year or so.

Don't know if your sister would be willing to try this old time remedy, but it surely wouldn't hurt.



Fecal transplants are used for humans, too, to cure C diff, and even Crohn's. This seems like a fantastic idea, Su!
 
Posts: 11
Location: portlandia, oregon. zone 8b
4
chicken hugelkultur pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Su Ba wrote:

Ive seen this work in young puppies and bring a lifelong cure. The older the pup or dog, the longer it takes to effect. Just as with people, fecal transplanting in older dogs often needs to be repeated twice a year or so.

Don't know if your sister would be willing to try this old time remedy, but it surely wouldn't hurt.



Fecal transplants are used for humans, too, to cure C diff, and even Crohn's. This seems like a fantastic idea, Su!



I wonder if this would explain some of the rampant feces-eating behavior present in domestic dogs?

I would also suggest -- go to a different vet! Getting a second opinion is NEVER a bad thing. Tell your new vet your problem, have them request records from the previous vet, and hopefully the new vet will have another idea to help your puppy.
 
Chris Kott
pollinator
Posts: 1814
Location: Toronto, Ontario
125
bee forest garden fungi hugelkultur cooking rabbit trees urban wofati
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for all the helpful advice.

The pup is being fed a prebiotic food for gastrointestinal sensitivity, and a paste comprised of probiotics and a dozen or more different strains of gut bacteria, among them the aforementioned saccharomyces boulardi.

I think that it's likely that being off the daily antibiotics will allow his gut bacteria to gain ground and outcompete the remaining c. difficile.

I have suggested the fecal transplant route, or otherwise introducing healthy gut bacteria into the pup's system from his healthy 8-year-old brother, also a Schnauzer.

I am going to suggest they find a local farm source of raw grassfed ruminant scraps, which should be easy as they live in farming and pastoral country about six hours north of me. The suggestion about squash as good gut bacteria food and avoiding grains and fillers as bad gut bacteria food is a good point.

Thanks again, and keep the good advice coming.

-CK
 
gardener
Posts: 1219
Location: Middle Tennessee
192
books cat chicken food preservation homestead cooking purity trees
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Chris, how's the pup doing? Have there been improvements or even a complete recovery with no more runny poops? Will you share the techniques your sister-in-law used that seemed to work better over others?
 
You totally ruined the moon. You're gonna hafta pay for that you know. This tiny ad agrees:
It's like binging on 7 seasons of your favorite netflix permaculture show
http://permaculture-design-course.com/
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!