• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies living kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Jocelyn Campbell
stewards:
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Burra Maluca
  • Miles Flansburg
garden masters:
  • Dave Burton
  • Anne Miller
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Mike Jay
gardeners:
  • Bill Crim
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Greg Martin

Regenerative agricultural  RSS feed

 
Posts: 3
Location: Montréal, Canada
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Much has been cover regarding sustainability but has there been any talk of regenerative agricultural. Specifically adaptive multi paddock [amp] grazing. Apparently in terms of soil and ecosgsystem health and synergy there may be nothing better. Anyone have experience with this ?
 
steward
Posts: 3055
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
644
books food preservation hunting solar trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Matt, welcome to Permies!  I'm not a cattle guy myself but I think there is a lot of discussion in the "cattle" forum of paddock rotation, possibly sometimes called mob grazing?  There might be multiple terms for similar practices so search for "paddock shift", "mob grazing" and "paddock" and you'll probably find some good discussions.  

I moved your thread over to the Cattle forum so hopefully more people will see it and chime in.  
 
Matt Shakaleg
Posts: 3
Location: Montréal, Canada
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Perfect thanks
 
Posts: 36
Location: Northern Utah/Northwest Colorado
12
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I live in the middle of a public (BLM/NFS) range that is currently testing a closer to mob grazing system.  However, they are still frantically building new fencing and water systems.  They have cut the range up into many smaller pieces and then consolidated the cows into two dense herds.  I am excited to watch it over the years, mainly because it is public land.  Ironically, it is the local ranchers running point, with a university taking notes, and the feds gave the nod.

*143,000 arces, 3320ish head
 
Matt Shakaleg
Posts: 3
Location: Montréal, Canada
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Very interesting. Im pretty green regarding ranching let alone the regenerative method but would anyone have ideas on the most efficient way to aquire live stock. I have access to 125 achres in sask canada. Any thoughts are really appreciated
 
Tom Digerness
Posts: 36
Location: Northern Utah/Northwest Colorado
12
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The cheapest way to would be buying bum calves during calving season. Couldn't call it efficient though, unless one has kids who need chores.  
 
Tom Digerness
Posts: 36
Location: Northern Utah/Northwest Colorado
12
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Renting your pastures maybe a way to get a feel for things while getting paid. Plus networking with the local ranchers.
 
gardener
Posts: 5339
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
692
books chicken dog duck fish forest garden fungi homestead hugelkultur hunting pig
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are books on regenerative agriculture, all have chapters on mob grazing ie. AMP. Mark, Gabe, and Joel are some of the front runners in this area.

Redhawk
 
Posts: 64
Location: Eastern Great Lakes lowlands, zone 4/5
11
trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:There are books on regenerative agriculture, all have chapters on mob grazing ie. AMP. Mark, Gabe, and Joel are some of the front runners in this area.



To clarify, do you mean Mark Shepard, Gabe Brown, And Joel Salatin?
 
Posts: 103
Location: Zone 3-4 (usually 4) Western South Dakota, central Black Hills
23
bike books building cattle chicken dog food preservation homestead hunting cooking sheep
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

I live in the middle of a public (BLM/NFS) range that is currently testing a closer to mob grazing system.  However, they are still frantically building new fencing and water systems.  They have cut the range up into many smaller pieces and then consolidated the cows into two dense herds.  I am excited to watch it over the years, mainly because it is public land.  Ironically, it is the local ranchers running point, with a university taking notes, and the feds gave the nod.  



I wish they’d do something like that here. The subsidized grazing here is doing nothing but harm. It’s just a mess and they wonder why they have a big problem with invasive species. ☹️ AND then the feds want permission (opt out) to herbicide our land along with those unfortunate hundreds of sq miles under their tender stewardship? No thanks. Plus the dufus guys doing the dirty work weren’t even wearing so much as a dust mask. The poor cows all hang around the edges of our fences salivating over our grass and trampling every damp spot into a stinking mire.
 
Tom Digerness
Posts: 36
Location: Northern Utah/Northwest Colorado
12
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The heavens really do have to align to get everyone on board.  If the feds push it the ranchers tend to resist, and the bureaucracies can be as stubborn as the ranchers.

We were fortunate enough to have an extremely large private ranch near by, which had implemented a grazing plan.  The local ranchers noticed how much better the the private range was to the public range.  The ranchers teamed up with Utah State University to develop a plan, then together they pitched it to the various agencies.

If all goes well, it might spread.  I am just nervous that too many people look at cows as the problem, instead of thier management.  Domestication is the process of breeding the self management skills away.
 
master pollinator
Posts: 10440
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
402
cat chicken fiber arts fish forest garden greening the desert trees wood heat
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tom Digerness wrote:Domestication is the process of breeding the self management skills away.



I think a lot of people forget this!  Around here folks expect sheep and goats to be able to take care of themselves as though they are wild animals, never mind that they have been domestic for about 10,000 years!
 
Cindy Skillman
Posts: 103
Location: Zone 3-4 (usually 4) Western South Dakota, central Black Hills
23
bike books building cattle chicken dog food preservation homestead hunting cooking sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We absolutely used to see the cattle as the problem. You get tired of driving them away from your gates and off your access roads... And then you start researching and maybe even read a little Temple Grandin and learn they’re really easy to move where you want them (or more to the point, away from where you don’t want them)... and then you stumble across an Allan Savory video or two and your whole perspective changes. You get some chickens and then all of a sudden you find you have cows... 😳 (Well, maybe not all in that order exactly, but you get the picture...)
3E4CCF76-76F1-44FC-BBDD-79FD3AD90B2A.jpeg
[Thumbnail for 3E4CCF76-76F1-44FC-BBDD-79FD3AD90B2A.jpeg]
 
Posts: 105
Location: Saskatchewan
17
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Matt Shakaleg wrote:Very interesting. Im pretty green regarding ranching let alone the regenerative method but would anyone have ideas on the most efficient way to aquire live stock. I have access to 125 achres in sask canada. Any thoughts are really appreciated



If you just want livestock for improving the land I would suggest custom grazing. Do some advertising and talk to local ranchers. You should be able to get paid about a dollar per day per cow/calf pair to keep them for someone else over the growing season. Early May till mid to late October is when cattle typically are grazing here in Sask.

Fence in as many paddocks as you can, each needs access to water. Shoot for a maximum grazing period of 5 days, and a recovery period between 60-90 days. Recovery period needs to be closer to 90 days in dry conditions, and a shorter recovery when grass growth is fast. On 125 acres you should be able to graze 15-20 cow calf pairs. What soil zone are you? That will make a difference in how many critters you can keep.

Cattle on grass tend to be pretty healthy. You  need a way to catch and treat any sick ones, which will be mostly calves. You will probably need a catch pen and a head gate. Or a horse and rope, but that takes skill.

Sheep or goats are another option. The demand is way higher than the supply so the price is pretty good right now. These need much better fences and shelter. You can look in kijiji for ewes/does or search for breeders to start your own flock/herd. The upside is that you just need a catching pen to treat sick animals. No head gate, chute, or roping needed.
 
              
Posts: 54
Location: Virginia
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A lot of the universities around the country and ag extension offices have caught on the rotational grazing thing. Here are a few examples from east coast:

https://ext.vt.edu/agriculture/graze-300.html
https://cefs.ncsu.edu/extension-and-outreach/amazing-grazing/

They are mostly geared towards improving the stewardship of the land, improving water quality, making it cheaper for people to graze cattle by way of extending the grazing season (as opposed to feeding hay in winter), so on and so on. In a way, when practiced properly, these programs are "regenerative" :)
 
Hey! Wanna see my flashlight? It looks like this tiny ad:
Food Forest Card Game - Game Forum
https://permies.com/t/61704/Food-Forest-Card-Game-Game
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!